• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

US UAV and UCAV Technology

bobbymike

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
10,050
Reaction score
1,099
 

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
197
Much like the USA FTUAS and ALE need to be the same program ie a UAV launched from a Ah-64E needs to have some real capability, the USAF Loyal wingman UAV and this Next Generation UAS ISR/Strike Platform need to be the same program. The problem is both services seems to fine w/tube and wing aircraft. Likewise, NGAD/FA-XX also needs to be confined to BWBs.
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,244
Reaction score
143
The BWB planform is not suitable for supersonic flight for at least four of five reasons, off the top of my head. Mostly related to aerodynamics and stability and control.
 

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
197
The BWB planform is not suitable for supersonic flight for at least four of five reasons, off the top of my head. Mostly related to aerodynamics and stability and control.
First of all, a Reaper replacement may well not need to a supersonic. This NG 6G proposal sure looks like a Hybrid/BWB to me.
 

Attachments

DWG

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
686
Reaction score
397
" WASHINGTON: House appropriators are worried that the Air Force’s latest try to replace the MQ-Reaper isn’t fully baked "

Is that a polite way of saying it's half-baked?
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,244
Reaction score
143
The BWB planform is not suitable for supersonic flight for at least four of five reasons, off the top of my head. Mostly related to aerodynamics and stability and control.
First of all, a Reaper replacement may well not need to a supersonic. This NG 6G proposal sure looks like a Hybrid/BWB to me.
>> NGAD/FA-XX also needs to be confined to BWBs

FA-XX will definitely be supersonic, so BWB will not work. I agree an MQ-9 replacement will likely not be supersonic.

What is shown in the picture you posted is known as delta planform. Much higher sweep, lower aspect ratio than a BWB. The hybrid wing body, as designed by Lockheed, adds vestigial tail and empennage to the BWB planform.
 
Last edited:

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
197
The BWB planform is not suitable for supersonic flight for at least four of five reasons, off the top of my head. Mostly related to aerodynamics and stability and control.
First of all, a Reaper replacement may well not need to a supersonic. This NG 6G proposal sure looks like a Hybrid/BWB to me.
>> NGAD/FA-XX also needs to be confined to BWBs

FA-XX will definitely be supersonic, so BWB will not work. I agree an MQ-9 replacement will likely not be supersonic.

What is shown in the picture you posted is known as delta planform. Much higher sweep, lower aspect ratio than a BWB. The hybrid wing body, as designed by Lockheed, adds vestigial tail and empennage to the BWB planform.
NG's proposal is not a tube and wing, it is a body blended into the wing, enough said.
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,244
Reaction score
143
Jsport, you seem to be using the terms "BWB" and a blended fuselage/wing interchangeably. BWB has a very distinct connotation.

enough said.
sorry i'm wasting your time.
 

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
197
Jsport, you seem to be using the terms "BWB" and a blended fuselage/wing interchangeably. BWB has a very distinct connotation.

enough said.
sorry i'm wasting your time.
This subject was previously argued over for days w/ nothing but confusing dogma, corporate spin and opinions being presented. Yes best to stop.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,323
Reaction score
456
Not super sexy, but it looks like an air vehicle that does not need school trained maintainers constantly working on the guts. If it can get the troops what they need it might be worth consideration. Devil remains in the details though.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
1,971
Reaction score
667
IMOHO the only problems are the load size restricted by the biplan layout with an enclosing aerodynamic shell and the pull up manoeuvre they have to do right in the last mile alerting everyone where you hide with a nice ear shattering buzzing noise (high loaded prop).

The good point are - as mentionnd above - dependability and being scalable.

They should use the concept as a vertically launched towing bird for a plywood/cartboard cargo glider.
 

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
197
AUVSI is also taking issue with Congress’ misunderstanding of UMS operations, focusing on the reliability of individual components rather than that of the system as a whole, ignoring the operational context in which the UMS will be used. Unmanned systems have well-documented reliability in the commercial sector performing in a range of demanding and complex environments, including deep-water exploration. If Congress attempts to apply unique reliability requirements to UMS use by the U.S. Navy, it will only serve to drive up cost, decrease competition and significantly delay fielding of the systems to the war fighters that need them.
While Congress has previously demonstrated its support for the growth and integration of unmanned systems in the future Navy fleet architecture, its reliability concerns and proposed funding cuts in this instance are misplaced. Industry has determined that the wholeness of autonomy is critical to mission duration and success, and the emphasis on testing reliability should be on that wholeness rather than focusing on individual components. What’s more, the Navy’s R&D effort is already working to field systems that can prove reliability in a realistic operational context.
 

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
197

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,630
Reaction score
1,778
Russian EW being at least a contributing factor would probably be a safe bet.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
1,971
Reaction score
667
Although I do agree that this is plausible, Reaper drones are succeptible to collide given they have no sense and avoid system. Idlib being a tight battle space and SA being a critical resource for drone pilots, IMOHO the odds of a simple loss of situational awareness are too great to dismiss that explanation (fighter jets do also collide).
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,630
Reaction score
1,778
Yes, I always found that omission to be strange at the very least. I believe at least one effort to retrofit such a capability to the Reaper fleet got canned to free up funds to shore up another project (possibly the infamous TBMCS).
 
Last edited:

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
1,971
Reaction score
667
IMOHO given the commercial sensitivity of sense&avoid systems, it would be foolish to have them embedded in airframe flying daily above conflict zones.
At least untill manpower needs to sustain them in flight has not seen any drastic reduction.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,251
Reaction score
2,915
This topic, originally about unbuilt projects, has been thoroughly hijacked as a "Drones" news topic. Moved to Aviation & Space.
 

bobbymike

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
10,050
Reaction score
1,099
Last edited:

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
1,971
Reaction score
667
That would be perfect with the infamous flying weapons pylon.
Anybody knows where they are with that?
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,244
Reaction score
143
Longshot? haven't heard about it in a while. The DARPA PM is probably trying to secure funding.
 

TomS

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
4,017
Reaction score
981
Longshot? haven't heard about it in a while. The DARPA PM is probably trying to secure funding.
They asked for FY21 money.

 

Flyaway

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
3,851
Reaction score
1,778

The first one looks like the supposed RQ-180 & the other like a enlarged Sea Ghost.
 

bobbymike

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
10,050
Reaction score
1,099
ANG's 'Ghost' Reaper aims to transform hunter-killer RPA for JADC2 operations
The Air National Guard's MQ-9 enterprise has been quietly fighting under the radar to show the remotely piloted aircraft has utility in future operations by transforming its hunter-killer counterinsurgency capabilities to better enable joint all-domain command and control under a little-known initiative called the "Ghost Reaper," multiple sources tell Inside Defense
______________________________________

Isn’t that the name of the next Tom Cruise movie, Mission Impossible 7: Ghost Reaper;)
 
Top