US Piston Engined Fighter Projects

[Antonio]

I have a copy of the monumental Angelucci & Bowers "The American Fighter". But even this work is not as comprehensive as I would like..to tell the truth I never have enough to satisfy my love for aerospace projects research :

To add an example, I have received this drawing courtesy from my good friend Lark. It is a Lockheed variation from its XP-58 Chain Lightning project. It seems that also a canard version was considered. I find this aircraft fascinating, just look at its size for a fighter...it is impressive. The drawing comes from The Lockheeds that never were, part one from Bill Slayton.


Lark and me are involved in a research about unbuilt US Fighters (until the publication of a book in the subject either from Tony Buttler or Scott Lowther). I have a lot of interest in R-40C fighter design competition in 1940 which was an incredible ambitious program that led (aparently) nowhere. About 50 revolutionary designs were submitted but, as Lark show me there is a lost link which is crucial to understand US Fighter evolution in the late 30's. This is the Douglas DS-312A which led the way with its nose free configuration. It was so influencial that most of the R-40C Pursuit Interceptors (including the winner designs XP-54, 55 and 56) were nose free.

Can anybody give any info or drawings of this aircraft?

 

[raravia]

WOW!

This is a very strange bird!....

Let me try to to think where i put some illustrationsi that i found it in a link which doesn't exist anymore, it shows with simple illustrations patents of many US aircrafts, between 1930 and 1951, including some non built fighters of the 30's and civil aircrafts.

Saludos

Fabián

 

[Antonio]

Fabián,

I hope you could find these files. It sounds fantastic!

In the meantime, our good friend Lark send me an article from Journal American Aviation Historical Society published in winter 1995. The title is Request for data R40-C and the author is Gerald H. Balzer. Mr Balzer composed a modelic article on Aviation evolution history. It is a masterpiece. Knowledge of the subject is so deep that informations from Angelucci/Bowers in The American Fighter and internet evidence a lack of rigor.

I have learn a lot from this critical period in US Fighter design history. For instance, the Douglas DS-312 never led the way in armament choices in the R40-C RFP. The text from Paul Ludwig's "Mustang-the development of the long range fighter" is not correct about this fact (although it is a good book).
In The American Fighter, the XP-48 is also identified as Model 312 but the information given is not true. The XP-48 was not an "emergency fighter" to be easily mass produced and the comparison with the XP-77 in false. The XP-48 competed against the XP-46 and XP-47A in 1939. Specification XC-622 (1939) called for a light but powerful interceptor comparable to European trends in fighter design.

From the article I attach the list of contenders and the Republic submmission (AP-12 Rocket).
From Angelucci/Bowers the Douglas Model 312 (XP-48).

Antonio

 

[elmayerle]

From the listing, that AP-12 section view is more info than I've seen elsewhere on the XP-69. It's rather a pity that the Wright Tornado engine never sw flight-worthy hardware status.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

do you have any idea about McDonnell Model-2 twin engined
fighter which led to develope Model-23 (P-67) fighter ?.

 

[hesham]

A little known fighters (actually built):
Ryan STA-Special :was single seat low wing fighter,a version of STM tandem
two seat trainer, powered by 150 hp Menasco C4S air-cooled
engine.
Waco CSO-A :single seat lightweight fighter,a version of CSO tandem two seat
sports and training biplane,powered by 250 hp Wright R-760 E
Whirlwind radial engine.
Waco CTO-A :single seat lightweight fighter biplane,developed from Model-10
it had a tapered wing.

 

[Antonio]

Hesham,

I posted the Brewster's entry here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,650.0.html

Regards

 

[red admiral]

Nice pic. But, is there anymore information about the history? (Specification, engine, project timeline, ect.?)

No idea unfortunately.

 

[lark]

The L-134 was to be an XP-58 redesign done coincidentally with the construction
of the XP-53.
No reports were done on this design.One original drawing of a L-134-3 variant exist showing an aircraft
quite different from the XP-58.
A canard version was also considered.
No further info.

Source : Bill Slayton : The lockheeds that never were. AAHS-Spring 1999.

P.S. I should be of great interest if you could show the 3-view of the DS-312A.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

from that site; http://airwar.valka.cz/muzeum/usa/xp49/default.htm
I don't know that language but I found that for 39-775 competition
the contenders were Republic AP-10 (misprint AP-40),Douglas D-312,
Lockheed 222 and Grumman G-41,and we this competition was issued
for twin-engine high-performance escort fighter,
I know the Lockheed 222 later became 522 and Grumman G-41 later
became G-46,but AP-10 and D-312 makes me confuse,were they a
twin engined variants or what ?,any help please.

 

[lark]

Republic AP-10 - first use of this designation -fighter project with one Allison
liquid cooled engine
Douglas DS-312 - XP-48 projected fighter with one developed Ranger in-line engine

 

[Antonio]

From: The American Fighter (Angelucci/Bowers) Page 270

On March 11,1939 the Materiel Division of the USAAC issued "Circular Proposal" No.39-775 which invited design submissions for a twin engined high performance escort fighter

Lockheed submitted a P-38 development powered with 2 P&W X-1800 ( Alternative powerplant: Wright R-2160 ). Lockheed designation: L-106 Model 522-66-07 (for a time it carried the designation Model 23)*. USAAC designation: XP-49.
(An alternative XP-58 design with twin-boom configuration too can be found at Warren M. Bodie's "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning" (ISBN 0-9629359-0 5) Page 255. It is labeled as XP-58 proposal of June 1940 to comply with Lightning Foreing Release Agreement. Engines: 2xX-1800. Armament 4x37mm M-9 on the nose and one .50-caliber machine guns on each tail.

* Source: The Lockheeds that never were Part I by Bill Slyton. Journal American Aviation Historical Society, Spring 1999 pg 68

Grumman submitted a version of its G-34 (USN XF5F-1) under Model Number G-46 powered by two Wright R-1820 radials. USAAC designation: XP-50.
I don't know what design was assigned G-41 Model number.

XP-49 and XP-50 were the shortlisted designs. I have no info about other contenders...but I'd love to get it.

Douglas DS-312 XP-48 was a High Altitude Light Proposal design from 1939 (Obviously not related to 39-778). I'm waiting to receive 'Hap Arnold's Ghost Fighters' article to fully understand that design and DS-312A but it seems that both are linked to Army Circular Proposal 39-770 and pre-R40-C research.

Republic AP-10 was also related to 39-770. USAAC ordered a prototype in November 1939 under XP-47 designation. It was never built. (Please do not confound XP-47 with XP-47B which was the P-47 Thunderbolt prototype). As you can guess AP-10 is not related to 39-775


It seems that http://airwar.valka.cz/muzeum/usa/xp49/default.htm is not the right web if you want to learn about aircraft ;D

According to The American Fighter (Angelucci/Bowers) it seems that XP-47B was also designated AP-10 ???. Lark, could you add more info?

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears,

but Devi said before :there was four contenders to this
competition, http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,547.0.html
and I think the site speak about the 39-775 and not 39-770.

 

[lark]

Hesham,

Maybe you can try to find out what sources Devi used.

 

[lark]

For the AP-10 : See : Designation Systems on this forum
'Seversky/Republic AP series'

 

[hesham]

My dear lark,

I think Devi is not here that period and for the twin engined
fighter competition 39-775,some other companies entered
it,like Bellanca 33-220 which Devi found it.

 

[lark]

Short notes...

* Circular proposal CP-390-770 had been offered to Gen.Arnold
to get a better fighter (than the P-39) and it brought forth
designs for the Curtiss XP-46 ,Republic XP-47 and the : Douglas DS-312A pusher
The XP-46 and XP-47 were to be armed with machine guns but the DS-312A
uncorked a serious attempt to employ heavy armement on fighters.

Source: "P-51 The development of the Long-Range escort fighter" Paul A.Ludwig.Classic 2003

* Grumman G-41 roposed Army version of the XF5F-1 with
conventional undercarriage. The G-45 with nosewheel u.c. became the XP-50

Source :"Grumman Aircraft since 1929." René J.Francillon-Putnam.London.1989

 

[Skybolt]

BTW, where is Devi ? ???

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Last Active: February 02, 2007, 11:45:46 am

Not been logged on since February.

 

[nugo]

Hi All!
Devi it I.

Simply I do not have often opportunity to participate at a forum from for other work.

Bellanca Model 33-220 source:
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/findaids/bellanca/gmb_sec_17.html

... and Model 17-110 and Model 20-115 ( both of Circular Proposal 39-770)

 

[Antonio]

Thanks a lot nugo

That's a very important addition for my research on US pre-1945 fighters

 

[nugo]

USSAC tender Fighter Design Spec. USSAC XC(-)621 and U.S. Army Spec. R-1800-D


USSAC tender Fighter Design Spec. USSAC XC(-)621 and U.S. Army Spec. R-1800-D ( dated December 1,1938 )

Grumman G-45----Series of proposals to USSAC in response to tendered Fighter Design Spec. USSAF XC621 and U.S. Army Spec. R-1800-D dated December 1, 1938. Aircraft intended to have conventional undercarriage and two Twin-Wasp engines.

G-45A---Proposed modification to USAAC Spec. and export version. Featured tricycle u/c and two liquid-cooled XR-1820 ( P.S. ? ) Wright Tornado engines of 2,350 hp.

G-45B---Proposed modification to USAAC Specification featuring gull-wing, twin-boom tail, two liquid-cooled wright Tornado engines.

G-45C---Fighter Proposal. Twin-boom tail, single liquid-cooled Wright Tornado engine mounted in pusher configuration.
page 107

sourse: JOURNAL AAHS, Summer, 1989.
"The Scarce skyrocket", page 96-107
by David Lucabaugh and Bob Martin

Merry Christmas !!!

 

[lark]

Re: USSAC tender Fighter Design Spec. USSAC XC(-)621 and U.S. Army Spec. R-1800-

Grumman G-45 is a development of the G-34.
It was one of the proposed Army versions of the XF5F-1.

 

[Apophenia]

Re: USSAC tender Fighter Design Spec. USSAC XC(-)621 and U.S. Army Spec. R-1800-

There seems to be some confusion over engine types/designations here.

The Tornado-powered designs are new to me and very interesting (cheers Nugo!). However, this should read Wright XR-2160 Tornado. The XR-1820 was, of course, the much earlier prototype 9-cylinder, air-cooled Wright Cyclone. The 42-cylinder, liquid-cooled radial Tornado was a whole 'nother beast.

The Grumman G-45 was the prototype XF7F-1 Tigercat but it was powered by R-2800-22Ws Double Wasps (not R-1830 Twin Wasps). As Lark said, the G-45 was a conceptual development of the G-34/X5F-1 (2 x XR-1820-40/42 Cyclones) via the G-46/XP-50 (2 x R-1820-67/69 Cyclones).

BTW, there was also the Grumman G-51/XP-65 which was essentially the USAAF's unbuilt equivalent of the USN's XF7F-1 (and would also have been Double Cyclone-powered).

 

[frank]

Re: USSAC tender Fighter Design Spec. USSAC XC(-)621 and U.S. Army Spec. R-1800-


If they were Double Cyclones, they'd be R-2600s, not R-2800s.

There seems to be some confusion over engine types/designations here.

The Tornado-powered designs are new to me and very interesting (cheers Nugo!). However, this should read Wright XR-2160 Tornado. The XR-1820 was, of course, the much earlier prototype 9-cylinder, air-cooled Wright Cyclone. The 42-cylinder, liquid-cooled radial Tornado was a whole 'nother beast.

The Grumman G-45 was the prototype XF7F-1 Tigercat but it was powered by R-2800-22Ws Double Cyclones (not R-1830 Twin Wasps). As Lark said, the G-45 was a conceptual development of the G-34/X5F-1 (2 x XR-1820-40/42 Cyclones) via the G-46/XP-50 (2 x R-1820-67/69 Cyclones).

BTW, there was also the Grumman G-51/XP-65 which was essentially the USAAF's unbuilt equivalent of the USN's XF7F-1 (and would also have been Double Cyclone-powered).

 

[Apophenia]

Oops, quite right frank! :-[

The Tigercat was, of course, powered by two P&W R-2800-22W Double Wasps not Double Cyclones.

 

[Sherman Tank]

Is there any information available about the Bellanca 17-110 available apart from what's in the titles of the archival documents?

 

[hesham]

Is there any information available about the Bellanca 17-110 available apart from what's in the titles of the archival documents?

Hard to find Sherman.

 

[Sherman Tank]

Something to keep in mind next time I'm in DC, I suppose.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

does anyone hear about Hittle single seat pursuit airplane,intended to US Army during WW one,
powered by one Liberty engine,cancelled after the war ?.

 

[hesham]

Via my dear Tophe,

here is a Boeing Model-376 & Model-394 Fighter Projects,also Curtiss P-304.

Boeing Model 376 Carrierborne Low-Altitude Fighter Aircraft Proposal Specifications and Pictures

Page details technical specifications, development, and operational history of the Boeing Model 376 Carrierborne Low-Altitude Fighter Aircraft Proposal including pictures.

www.militaryfactory.com

Boeing Model 394 Carrierborne Lightweight Fighter Proposal Specifications and Pictures

Page details technical specifications, development, and operational history of the Boeing Model 394 Carrierborne Lightweight Fighter Proposal including pictures.

www.militaryfactory.com

Curtiss P-304 Single-Seat, Single-Engine Jet-Powered Fighter Proposal Specifications and Pictures

Page details technical specifications, development, and operational history of the Curtiss P-304 Single-Seat, Single-Engine Jet-Powered Fighter Proposal including pictures.

www.militaryfactory.com

 

[ACResearcher]

I thought that since the discussion covered the Boeing 376, 394, and sticking strictly to the piston-engine aircraft, I would share artwork and/or 3-views of those aircraft as well as a couple other Boeing designs. I can't seem to find my 3-view of the Boeing 376, but I'll keep looking

The Boeing projects are covered in Tony Buttler and my book "American Secret Projects: Fighters, Bombers and Attack Aircraft 1937-1945" I won't go into any of the history on the designs here. "American Secret Projects etc." is, I believe, still available from Crecy and possibly on Amazon if you wish to read more about these and many, many more designs that never got past the initial concept phase along with 3-views and/or artwork.

Enjoy!

AlanG

 

[Antonio]

Alan,

have you ever considered an expanded second edition of the book in the future?

Is your research activity still focused on US projects 1937-45?

Jared Zicheck has recently released nice findings:

USAAC CP 39-775 twin-engine interceptor competition of 1939 (June 2022)
USAAC CP 39-770 interceptor pursuit competition of 1939 (July 2022)

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/retro-mechanix-now-on-patreon.36961/

 

[ACResearcher]

Hello Antonio.

My research is focused on immediate post-WWI through roughly 1946, specializing in the combat aircraft and projects of the AAS/AAC/AAF. My motto is "All REAL airplanes have propellers."

I have quite a bit of information on both CP 39-775 and CP 39-770. With regard to 770, I was very recently going through my files and cleaning up a copy of the complete original specifications, as well as a detailed description of the Bellanca entry.

Tony and I have not specifically spoken about an expanded second edition, but I never say never.

Thanks for the post!

AlanG

 

[Antonio]

Excellent blog

Republic XP-69 Fighter

Republic’s XP-69 fighter was one of the company’s few liquid-cooled engine aircraft designs. Trouble with the Wright R-2160 Tornado engine kept the XP-69 from being built.

oldmachinepress.com

Awesome drawing:
http://www.weakforcepress.com/XP-69/xp692056.html

Republic XP-47J Superbolt Fighter

The Republic XP-47J was a high-performance fighter prototype based on the P-47 Thunderbolt. The aircraft recorded a top speed of 505 mph (813 km/h) in level flight.

oldmachinepress.com

Republic XP-72 Super Thunderbolt / Ultrabolt Fighter

The Republic XP-72 could have been one of the greatest piston-engine fighters ever built. However, because of jet aircraft and the end of World War II, the P-72 never entered production.

oldmachinepress.com

McDonnell Aircraft Corporation Model 1

The McDonnell Model 1 was an unorthodox high-performance fighter. The 1940 design proved too advanced and did not progress beyond the design phase. However, it did inspire the McDonnell XP-67.

oldmachinepress.com

Hughes D-2

Howard Hughes kept his D-2 aircraft hidden away. The aircraft’s roll changed several times and included fighter and attack. Control issues plagued the prototype, but a redesign led to the XF-11.

oldmachinepress.com

 

[robunos]

Excellent blog

Doesn't seem to have been updated for a while . . .
Is William Pierce still with us, I know he's a member on here . . .

cheers,
robin.

 

[hesham]

Nice find my dear Antonio,

and this text in it confirms what I thought before,that XP-73 was reserved for Ryan FR-1,to be
used by USAAF,and Hughes D-2 may had XP-74 designation ?;

By June 1942, the AAF was interested in a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft and thought the D-2 might be a good fit. At the same time, the D-2’s intended role was defined as a fighter aircraft, and the AAF considered designating it the XP-73. In July 1942, the D-2 was envisioned in more of an attack role, and the designation XA-37 was recommended. However, the D-2 was never officially designated XP-73 or XA-37.

 

[Apophenia]

... Is William Pierce still with us...

WJPearce last active 17 June 2022

 

[airman]

I thought that since the discussion covered the Boeing 376, 394, and sticking strictly to the piston-engine aircraft, I would share artwork and/or 3-views of those aircraft as well as a couple other Boeing designs. I can't seem to find my 3-view of the Boeing 376, but I'll keep looking

The Boeing projects are covered in Tony Buttler and my book "American Secret Projects: Fighters, Bombers and Attack Aircraft 1937-1945" I won't go into any of the history on the designs here. View attachment 652580View attachment 652581View attachment 652582View attachment 652583View attachment 652584View attachment 652585View attachment 652586"American Secret Projects etc." is, I believe, still available from Crecy and possibly on Amazon if you wish to read more about these and many, many more designs that never got past the initial concept phase along with 3-views and/or artwork.

Enjoy!

AlanG

I love your book and Boeing projects are ones of the tops of projects mentioned in book .

 

[robunos]

... Is William Pierce still with us...

WJPearce last active 17 June 2022

Good to hear , , ,

cheers,
Robin.