US Navy MACE (Multi-Mission Affordable Capacity Effector)

[Ronny]

I don't really understand all the speculation.

I guess it’s because Blackbeard somehow uses what looks like an optical window, while radar radomes usually look quite different.

 

[Forest Green]

Given that the entire forebody is basically the dimension of an SDB-2…do we think this is a boost gliders rather than a truly two stage system? If GBU-53 is 6’ by 7” 200 lb system with a 100 lb warhead, I cannot imagine that a similar size hyper/super sonic glider has much of any room for a rocket motor.

How long is Blackbeard though, any dimensions yet? Based on the longer quoted length of 5.4m (source below) for the A2G version, the front portion could be ~2.7m long, so not SDB length.

BLACKBEARD, the "affordable" hypersonic missile, is now also headed to the US Navy
https://www.fw-mag.com/shownews/782...nic-missile-is-now-also-headed-to-the-us-navy

Point to make.
Large Ships can be picked out at 250nm by aircraft radar over open water and have been since the 60’s.

But definitely it's a much harder task for a TEL in rough terrain.

A job for SB-GMTI.

 

[Not James Stockdale]

How long is Blackbeard though, any dimensions yet? Based on the longer quoted length of 5.4m (source below) for the A2G version, the front portion could be ~2.7m long, so not SDB length.

If the Blackbeard is supposed to be MFOM-compatible or able to fit in an F-35C's IWB, it's going to have a 4 m OAL limit. The pictures Castelion posted of what they called the Blackbeard (the two-stage vehicle) show a 4 m OAL. The article is talking about a feasibility study with 5.4 m as the maximum size limit, but that doesn't guarantee those dimensions.

 

[Ronny]

If the Blackbeard is supposed to be MFOM-compatible or able to fit in an F-35C's IWB, it's going to have a 4 m OAL limit. The pictures Castelion posted of what they called the Blackbeard (the two-stage vehicle) show a 4 m OAL. The article is talking about a feasibility study with 5.4 m as the maximum size limit, but that doesn't guarantee those dimensions.

To be fair though, original MACE requirement is that 4 round must fit inside F-35, given the current Blackbeard length, I think that impossible, so it is plausble that some original requirement were relaxed.

 

[Sferrin]

Point to make.
Large Ships can be picked out at 250nm by aircraft radar over open water and have been since the 60’s.

But definitely it's a much harder task for a TEL in rough terrain.

Unless it's talking to an offboard sensor.

 

[Josh_TN]

To be fair though, original MACE requirement is that 4 round must fit inside F-35, given the current Blackbeard length, I think that impossible, so it is plausble that some original requirement were relaxed.

It was not a hard requirement to fit 4, but I think F-35 internal carriage was. But I doubt that lug arrangement allows for internal carriage - it is set too far back.

 

[Josh_TN]

Unless it's talking to an offboard sensor.

If it is hypersonic or even just mid level supersonic for its flight, updates really are not required. Just good initial target location. That’s true most any weapon.

 

[Ronny]

It was not a hard requirement to fit 4, but I think F-35 internal carriage was. But I doubt that lug arrangement allows for internal carriage - it is set too far back.

I heard that what we saw is not even the final configuration of black beard, so who know, might be in next iteration they move the lug slightly forward to allow for internal carrier. I wondering if they can actually fit 2 inside each bay if they are side to side, after all, J-35 allegedly carry 4 supersonic AGM internally

 

[Josh_TN]

At a minimum, F-18 can carry one on the outboard station which is only rated for ~1000#. That means that dual carriage on a tandem rack is on the table. But at a minimum, F-18 carriage is 4-6 depending on drop tanks, and 6-10 if tandem ejector racks can accommodate.

 

[bring_it_on]

In February, the Navy selected Blackbeard for its Multimission Affordable Capacity Effector (MACE) program, awarding the startup nearly $50 million.

The missile is intended to serve as a standoff weapon with a 200-nautical-mile range, arming aircraft including the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and F/A-18/E/F Super Hornet.

“Blackbeard is an air-launched, hypersonic strike weapon that provides carrier-based strike fighters with a responsive, long-range, high-speed strike option against maritime and land targets, enhancing survivability against advanced air defenses while significantly increasing magazine depth,” the announcement states.

The Navy’s fiscal year 2027 budget request includes $156 million for 353 MACE missiles, marking the first year of official procurement for the new program. Program funding was requested under budget reconciliation rather than the base budget.

https://insidedefense.com/insider/c...lion-blackbeard-hypersonic-missile-production

 

[Ronny]

https://insidedefense.com/insider/c...lion-blackbeard-hypersonic-missile-production

Previously, it was said that Blackbeard can reach something like 800 km, now it reduce to 370 km?

 

[Forest Green]

Previously, it was said that Blackbeard can reach something like 800 km, now it reduce to 370 km?

500nm was actually stated.

 

[Ronny]

500nm was actually stated.

Now that I think about it, 200 nm probably closer to real range because of the following reasons:
1- MACE requirement ask for something with range that can complimentary LRASM, and LRASM is known to have range around 200 nm (much shorter range than JASSM-ER)
2- US Army claimed that Blackbeard-GL should deliver approximately 80% of the Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) Increment 4 capability, I think many publication mistakenly think that mean range but it is plausible that they mean speed/accuracy or warhead size
3-Blackbeard is extremely small for a hypersonic missile, it either about the same size as AARGM-ER or only slightly larger, while its top speed is at least 20% higher. Logically, it seems very unlikely that it could also achieve three times the range.

 

[Josh_TN]

I think it unlikely the ground launched version is remotely like the air launch.

 

[Ronny]

I think it unlikely the ground launched version is remotely like the air launch.

ground launch version is probably air launch version with additional booster

 

[Seragina]

Before all these programs started analysis concluded a minimum range of 300-350 nm is required for all future stand-off weapons to be usefull in that role. But things have changed and more range is needed now than ever.

 

[Forest Green]

Now that I think about it, 200 nm probably closer to real range because of the following reasons:
1- MACE requirement ask for something with range that can complimentary LRASM, and LRASM is known to have range around 200 nm (much shorter range than JASSM-ER)
2- US Army claimed that Blackbeard-GL should deliver approximately 80% of the Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) Increment 4 capability, I think many publication mistakenly think that mean range but it is plausible that they mean speed/accuracy or warhead size
3-Blackbeard is extremely small for a hypersonic missile, it either about the same size as AARGM-ER or only slightly larger, while its top speed is at least 20% higher. Logically, it seems very unlikely that it could also achieve three times the range.

I don't think so, PrSM is same length or slightly shorter, about same width at base, single stage and makes 300nm from a ground launch with a warhead >2x size.

LRASM range is likely similar to JASSM-ER.

AARGM-ER is single stage, heavier warhead and thinner.

200nm sounds about right for a ground-launch though.