• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

US Bombers

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
pometablava said:
Intercontinetal bomber designs (rivals to Convair's designs to B-36 competition)

Sources:

B-36 Peacemaker. Detail&Scale Series

Magnesium Overcast. Dennis R. Jenkins

That's Boeing project was called Model-363.
 

Attachments

  • Boeing Intercontinental Bomber.jpg
    Boeing Intercontinental Bomber.jpg
    26.4 KB · Views: 815

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
hesham said:
also for USAAC Circle Proposal 39-640 for medium bomber,the contenders
were Douglas,Martin Model-179 B-26,North American NA-62 B-25 and
Stearman,what was the Douglas and the Stearman proposals ?.
We know Stearman up to X-120,and from X-130 to X-190 were
unknown,the X-200 was Boeing/Stearman XL-15.

Anther Projects submitted to this Specification (39-640);

Burnelli XBA-1
Chance Vought VS-302
Consolidated LB-22 & LB-24
Martin M-178

American Secret Projects: Fighters, Bombers, and Attack Aircraft, 1937-1945
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,534
Reaction score
313
Le Fana de L'Aviation special number 57, a B-24 monographic number, is out.

Excelent introductory chapter about US bomber heavy bomber development in the30's
 

ACResearcher

Author/researcher/illustrator.
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
261
Reaction score
160
I don't believe the Boeing Model 363 was the entry for the eventual B-36 contract. The Consolidated entries for this competition were initially chosen by the Materiel Division as the most promising in early October, 1941, the initial request for proposals having gone out to manufacturers in April of the same year, with the contract being let to Consolidated for their six-engine version on November 15, 1941.

The Model 363 does not appear to have been submitted to the Air Corps for consideration until that same November 15 date, based upon copies of the original 3-view and a number of original documents I have. The Model 363 (and a number of additional designs) seems to have been one of quite a number of design studies done by Boeing under Contract AC-19441. Essentially, these were "What will be build after the B-36?" in nature.

At this year's IPMS Nationals in Columbia, SC I shall be giving a presentation about Boeing's Unknown Heavy Bomber Designs of WWII and will go into detail about the Model 363 and over two dozen OTHER designs Boeing did at the time. The talk will be "image-heavy" as I have a TON of drawings and a lot of data.

Hope to see you there!

AlanG
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,534
Reaction score
313
Hope to see you there!

I really wish I could attend your presentation.

I hope you could put all your fascinating research about US bomber aircraft development from 30's and 40's into a book. That would be amazing.
 

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,809
Reaction score
94
I have the same (high) hope as Pometablava..
Will your presentation be available in one or another format ?
 

windswords

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
370
Reaction score
127
ACResearcher said:
At this year's IPMS Nationals in Columbia, SC I shall be giving a presentation about Boeing's Unknown Heavy Bomber Designs of WWII and will go into detail about the Model 363 and over two dozen OTHER designs Boeing did at the time. The talk will be "image-heavy" as I have a TON of drawings and a lot of data.

Any possibility that your presentation can be recorded and uploaded to Youtube?

Thanks!
 

sienar

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
685
Reaction score
340
From here;http://www.luftfahrt-bibliothek.de/zeitschrift-flugsport-oskar-ursinus-luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr/luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr-flugsport-1939/zeitschrift-flugsport-1939-luftsport-luftverkehr-luftfahrt.htm

Lots of other interesting things at that site. Unfortunately most of the scans are pretty poor
 

Attachments

  • zeitschrift-flugsport-1940-luftsport-luftverkehr-luftfahrt-463.png
    zeitschrift-flugsport-1940-luftsport-luftverkehr-luftfahrt-463.png
    23 KB · Views: 671

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
It's Douglas six engined bomber Project,please see reply # 113.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
sienar said:
From here;http://www.luftfahrt-bibliothek.de/zeitschrift-flugsport-oskar-ursinus-luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr/luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr-flugsport-1939/zeitschrift-flugsport-1939-luftsport-luftverkehr-luftfahrt.htm

Lots of other interesting things at that site. Unfortunately most of the scans are pretty poor

The Douglas Project with more info;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201940%2008.pdf
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    470.8 KB · Views: 415
  • 2.png
    2.png
    141.3 KB · Views: 330
  • 3.png
    3.png
    379.6 KB · Views: 304

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,809
Reaction score
94
Text mentions 100 passengers..
Was there is civil version planned ?
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
lark said:
Text mentions 100 passengers..
Was there is civil version planned ?

Maybe that's right my dear Lark,

I guess they had a civil version as one of possibilities.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
Him

can we consider those two designs as a light and heavy bomber Projects ?,and was
there any companies adopted them ?.

https://www.google.com/patents/USD110406?dq=roscoe+C.+Wilson+etal+airplane&hl=ar&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU6cWgpdPRAhWCDcAKHQbOD3AQ6AEIGjAA

https://www.google.com/patents/USD121431?dq=roscoe+C.+Wilson+etal+airplane&hl=ar&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU6cWgpdPRAhWCDcAKHQbOD3AQ6AEINTAD
 

Attachments

  • USD110406-0.png
    USD110406-0.png
    83.8 KB · Views: 946
  • USD121431-0.png
    USD121431-0.png
    50.8 KB · Views: 960

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,284
Reaction score
1,211
hesham said:
.... as a light...

Haven't checked the names or something else on those patent drawings,
but that twin engined design quite clearly is labelled as "Monoplace
Pursuit Airplane" ....
 

ACResearcher

Author/researcher/illustrator.
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
261
Reaction score
160
This patent application/award was part of a series of multi-engine low-wing cantilever bomber designs by James Taylor, Roscoe Wilson and Oscar Swanson, all of which took place in mid-1935. All three gentlemen were then working at the Materiel Division at Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio.

The low-wing designs were all very similar except in number of engines (one 4-engine, two six-engine), the engine configuration (4-engine all tractor, one six-engine with four tractor and one pusher, one six-engine all tractor).

Many of the designs put forth by these gentlemen have been incorrectly identified as other aircraft, especially the Materiel Division Designs Model 319 and 320.

The sources for the above information are the relevant patent awards (114417, 121430 and 121431) and USAAC documents in my collection.

AlanG
 

Johnbr

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
758
Reaction score
189
1942 b-36.
 

Attachments

  • earlyb-36cutaway.jpg
    earlyb-36cutaway.jpg
    910.4 KB · Views: 709
  • XB-36 1942=.jpg
    XB-36 1942=.jpg
    194.4 KB · Views: 731

Johnbr

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
758
Reaction score
189
Do's any one have a bigger and better one of this.I hope if you can.
 

Attachments

  • XB-36  1942.jpg
    XB-36 1942.jpg
    269.5 KB · Views: 630

ACResearcher

Author/researcher/illustrator.
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
261
Reaction score
160
The aircraft pictured above was a six engine, long range heavy bombardment aircraft offered by Consolidated on May 7, 1942 as an alternative to the B-36 design. And in this author's opinion, it was meant to be a direct competitor with the Northrop XB-35 but with a greater capacity. However, by the time this was presented the XB-35 was well into design and early construction phases, the initial contract having been approved November 22,1941.

This aircraft was to have a range of 10,000 miles (vs. 8,150 miles for the B-35) carrying 10,000 pounds of bombs. The "outstanding design features" were as follows (copied directly from Consolidated documents for the USAAF):

(1) Special low drag airfoil and pusher propellers.

(2) Fully retractable tricycle landing gear with protuberance of wheels or gear beyond the normal contour of the wing. (Dual 80 inch diameter main wheels and single 65 inch diameter nose wheel.

(3) Six 3000 BHP Pratt and Whitney X-Wasp engines [R-4360], supercharged, developing full power to 40,000 feet with extension shafts and Curtiss 3-blade 19 feet diameter pusher propellers. This use of single props should have caused substantially less problems than the counter-rotating props on the XB-35 which were never successful.

(4) Pressure cabin maintaining 8,000 foot pressure altitude to 35,000 feet. The front and rear pressure compartments are connected by a 27 inch diameter pressurized passageway.

(5) 12 crew.

(6) Offensive Armament

The maximum bomb loads which may be carried within the wing are:

12 - 4,000 lb. bombs (48,000#)
or 28 - 2,000 lb. bombs (56,000#)
or 72 - 1,000 lb. bombs (72,000#)
or 134 - 500 lb. bombs (67,000#)

(7) Defensive Armament

The entire sphere is effectively covered, by five turrets carrying a total of

6 - 37 mm. flexible cannon with 1800 rounds
8 - 50 cal. flexible guns with 8,000 rounds

Gross weight was projected as 237,800 pounds (vs max takeoff weight of the B-35 of 209,000 lbs.).

High speed at 30,000 ft with military rated power was estimated to be 394 mph, roughly the same top speed as the B-35. Average operating speed for maximum range at 30,000 ft was 210 mph.

This would have been a MUCH larger aircraft than the Northrop B-35.

Consolidated Northrop
Wing Span: 288 feet 172 feet
Length: 78 feet 53 feet 1 inch

I hope you find this informative.

AlanG¬¬
 
Last edited:

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
From Ailes 7/1954.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    607.8 KB · Views: 236

CJGibson

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
1,516
Reaction score
837
Boeing B-47 precursors. See Hopkins and Habermehl's B-47 Stratojet.

Chris
 

Vahe Demirjian

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
624
Reaction score
289
What's even more interesting is to compare the Consolidated design with something that Boeing considered about six months later. Boeing's Model 404 was an attempt to improve the performance of their Model 384 design "in an all-out effort to achieve maximum range and performance." Amazingly, the Air Materiel Command rejected the design because its promised performance was too conservative. These are from Boeing Report D-5448, "Design Summary Study, Model 404," Dec. 13, 1943:
Thanks for showing 3-view drawings of the Model 404 design. However, the dimensional specs of the design can't be legibly read. From the drawing, what are the height, length, and span of the Model 404?
 

ACResearcher

Author/researcher/illustrator.
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
261
Reaction score
160
Vahe, see my post under Boeing 404 for drawings and a comparison with the Martin/Northop B-35 design.

AlanG
 

Bomberboy78

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
According to a number of things I have read, the Martin B-27 was designed and drawn on paper but never built as a physical aircraft, however in the mountains of Vermont there is a (supposed) B-27 which crashed. Could it have been a modified B-26 or possibly a misidentified A-26 as it only had a pilot aboard and he was never found... I am looking for some printable information on the B-27 if anyone can help me out it would be deeply appreciated.
 
Last edited:

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
From Air Classics 11/2009,

a whole story about Douglas XB-19.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    3.9 MB · Views: 108
  • 2.png
    2.png
    4.2 MB · Views: 100
  • 3.png
    3.png
    3.5 MB · Views: 93
  • 4.png
    4.png
    4.7 MB · Views: 82
  • 5.png
    5.png
    3.5 MB · Views: 79
  • 6.png
    6.png
    4.8 MB · Views: 82
  • 7.png
    7.png
    4.7 MB · Views: 81

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
And;
 

Attachments

  • 8.png
    8.png
    5.2 MB · Views: 72
  • 9.png
    9.png
    3.7 MB · Views: 75
  • 10.png
    10.png
    4.1 MB · Views: 74
  • 11.png
    11.png
    3.5 MB · Views: 75
  • 12.png
    12.png
    3.2 MB · Views: 74
  • 13.png
    13.png
    3.4 MB · Views: 77
  • 14.png
    14.png
    3.3 MB · Views: 95

ACResearcher

Author/researcher/illustrator.
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
261
Reaction score
160
Ian, when you ask for "more information on the Boeing Model 363", what kind of information are you looking for and for what purposes?

AlanG
 

Ian5

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
4
Ian, when you ask for "more information on the Boeing Model 363", what kind of information are you looking for and for what purposes?

AlanG
I am looking for any information i have not found much information on it preferably drawings i am having a project with 50 other people on this unique bomber thank you very much for answering
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,652
Reaction score
4,622
Hi may anyone have more information on the boeing model 363

It was a six-engine twin-boom high altitude heavy bomber Project with pusher engines,intended
to compete Consolidated B-36,and maybe that was its drawing.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    45.9 KB · Views: 53
Top