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Unknown Jet Mustang

Justo Miranda

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Unknown japanese source
 

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frank

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I've seen that same pic in an old Wings or Airpower magazine from the mid to late '70s. I don't recall what the caption may have said other than it was a turbo prop proposal.
 

Antonio

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Frank, then you think this is a real design. I know that Ed Schmued studied advanced fighters based in the Mustang (others than the widely known negative swept wing and early Sabre ancestors)
 

lark

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Frank ,do you have more info of this
Airpower issue ? (month & year or number)

Thanks.
 

frank

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I have it, tho it's buried deep in storage. I know mid '70s or so & there was a whole series of articles by &/or about, WWII ace "Kit" Carson & it was in one of those issues.


lark said:
Frank ,do you have more info of this
Airpower issue ? (month & year or number)

Thanks.
 

frank

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Real or not, I don't know, but I know I've seen the same pic.

pometablava said:
Frank, then you think this is a real design. I know that Ed Schmued studied advanced fighters based in the Mustang (others than the widely known negative swept wing and early Sabre ancestors)
 

frank

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I'm curious about the handwritten note, about the exhaust under the rudder. Where did that come from? It's clearly at about the wing trailing edge.


Justo Miranda said:
Unknown japanese source
 

Orionblamblam

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This is my guesswork on what's going on. To me it looks like a mixed-propulsion system... piston with jet.

What the thing on the fuselage side is, I'm uncertain. It's be an unlikely location for jet exhaust... the jet engine or at least the exhaust duct would would be running right through the cockpit. I'd guess it's the jet engine inlet. The inlet on the underside... radiation cooler for the piston engine, I guess.
 

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Avimimus

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It could be a system like in the I-250 with the piston engine driving the compressor (a propturbo as opposed to a turboprop)?
 

Michel Van

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there were some study and test projects

for US Fighter with mix engine:
piston engine with little jep engine

Ryan FR-1 Fireball
Ryan FR-2/3/4, XF2R-1 et XF2R-2
Curtiss XF15C
Convair XP-81
Breguet Br-960 Vultur
Dornier Do-435

I think this P-51 is one of these study


Ryan FR-1 Fireball in test
 

amsci99

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IIRC, there was an article by Jared A Zichek (wish he was with this forum) in Air Enthusiast #101 on North American Aviation projects stemming from the P-51 baseline. Do not have the issue but perhaps this was one of the projects.
 

frank

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My thoughts were always that the turbine was mounted behind the cockpit & drove the props thru an extension shaft. The nose housed the gearbox & the inlets are cooling related. The engine, whatever it may have been, was set up like a P & W PT-6. "Backwards". Therefore, the radiator intake is the engine air intake & the exhaust is in the logical location for a PT-6 type of layout.


Orionblamblam said:
This is my guesswork on what's going on. To me it looks like a mixed-propulsion system... piston with jet.

What the thing on the fuselage side is, I'm uncertain. It's be an unlikely location for jet exhaust... the jet engine or at least the exhaust duct would would be running right through the cockpit. I'd guess it's the jet engine inlet. The inlet on the underside... radiation cooler for the piston engine, I guess.
 

lark

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'Think Frank could be very close...
Nose of this Mustang variant looks to sleek to hold an engine...
 

mattrix

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This proposal is probably related, as the propulsion system is concerned:
http://www.enginehistory.org/Sarah%20Clark/Finding%20Aid/North%20American%20XP-51Hsw.jpg
 

frank

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I believe this one has always been known as a mixed power Mustang, as it had a piston engine up front & a jet in the back. The other one is what I've seen mentioned only as a turbo prop.


mattrix said:
This proposal is probably related, as the propulsion system is concerned:
http://www.enginehistory.org/Sarah%20Clark/Finding%20Aid/North%20American%20XP-51Hsw.jpg
 

Avimimus

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But did the pistons drive the jet or did the jet drive the propeller? 8)
 

fredgell

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I seem to recall a project to reactivate stored aircraft during the Vietnam conflict with turboprops.

The date would be about right - and the picture looks familiar.

Or has somebody already said that.

My guess would be a source in Flight or Air Pictorial.

Regards

Fred
 

smurf

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Pave Coin
Cavalier Turbo-Mustang, Piper Enforcer and others
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p51.htm
http://www.mustangsmustangs.us/thehangar/index.php?topic=467.msg%25msg_id%25
 

SlickDriver

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fredgell

There is a Cavalier Turbo-Mustang at Wright-Patterson and it looks nothing like the drawing. The side air intake looks weird and there is no air intakes at the rear of the wings nor does the exhaust come out the tail.
 

frank

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If I'm not mistaken, the Turbo Mustang at WP is actually the Piper PA-48 Enforcer, which really has little in common with the Cavalier Turbo Mustang III. Other than all designs being turbo prop, I think the pic has no relation to either of the later turbo prop Mustang variants.

Loren said:
fredgell

There is a Cavalier Turbo-Mustang at Wright-Patterson and it looks nothing like the drawing. The side air intake looks weird and there is no air intakes at the rear of the wings nor does the exhaust come out the tail.
 

GTX

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There was also this proposal: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2397.0/


Regards,

Greg
 

lark

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I think I found at last the origins of Justo's drawing and the
magazine mentioned by Frank in his # 1 reply.

The source is :Wings June ,1976 volume 6 no 3
A 14 page article "The Making of the Mustang" part 2- by L.K."Kit" Carson.

The original illustration is on magazine page 20 with the follwing caption:

" Artist's rendition of Turbo-prop version of Mustang, which was in the
preliminary doodling phase at North American but was shelved at the end of the war.
No performance figures are available , but it would have been a 500 mph plus machine
with excellent range and endurence. "

So far the captiontext. I found no further information in the article.

It seems that the contrail streams from the exhaust just above the wing trailing edge at the fuselage wing joint ...
 

sienar

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For what its worth, naca did quite a few studies on using submerged ducts as jet engine intakes, most of these studies were with side intakes. Other companies besides naa seemed to have taken up the same idea around the same time.
So the submerged duct inlets on this p-51 lines up with what naca was doing in 45.
 

Bill Walker

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sienar said:
For what its worth, naca did quite a few studies on using submerged ducts as jet engine intakes, most of these studies were with side intakes. Other companies besides naa seemed to have taken up the same idea around the same time.
So the submerged duct inlets on this p-51 lines up with what naca was doing in 45.

With the ultimate expression being the YF-93.

 

Dynoman

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Looks like a counter rotating propulsion system in the drawing similar to the modifications to Reno racing Mustangs after the war.
 

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Jemiba

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From lark, I've thankfully got a scan from Wings , June 1976, showing the artist impression
from the first post in better quality. It's described as a turbo-prop version, that was cancelled
with the end of the war.
 

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