Germany sniffing around with a "we could buy 150 fighters if you lets us in as a partner" opening gambit.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/07/22/germany-pushes-to-join-uk-fighter-jet-programme/
Germany is pushing to join Britain’s £50bn future fighter-jet programme after pulling out of a deal with France.
The country’s biggest warplane maker told the Farnborough Air Show on Wednesday that the EU powerhouse should join forces with Britain, Italy and Japan on the new Tempest stealth jet plan after a rival French agreement was dropped.
Michael Schoellhorn, the head of Airbus’s Munich-based defence arm, said if Germany had enough influence over the programme and a share of the work, it could be tempted to join Britain in developing the new jets.
“What we’re ready to do is to join something or to build something where we have a significant portion of the work and the leadership. That’s currently being explored,” he said.

Mr Schoellhorn said that in an ideal world, Eurofighter would have survived the schism over Brexit and formed the basis of a European grouping to develop a next-generation warplane.
He said: “If we do a mental exercise and project ourselves back to 2017, and we would not have started the old FCAS, then likely we would have continued with the Eurofighter team.
“That would have been an organic answer. But time has passed. There’s a project that has already started; Japan has joined. So, to be determined.”
In a sign that Germany is considering joining GCAP, Mr Schoellhorn said an arrangement reflecting Germany’s contribution, with Germany potentially ordering 150 planes, would be required.
He said that amid the “disappointment” regarding the failure of the FCAS, there was “obviously relief that the impasse is behind us and now we can open a new chapter”.
 
Oh look....
Michael Schoellhorn, the head of Airbus’s Munich-based defence arm, said if Germany had enough influence over the programme and a share of the work, it could be tempted to join Britain in developing the new jets.
“What we’re ready to do is to join something or to build something where we have a significant portion of the work and the leadership. That’s currently being explored,” he said.
Seriously?
Do they not understand that this would turn the schedule back to almost the start and massively delay the whole program?
It would effectively kick Japan out as they want this aircraft ASAP.
 
Oh look....

Seriously?
Do they not understand that this would turn the schedule back to almost the start and massively delay the whole program?
It would effectively kick Japan out as they want this aircraft ASAP.


IMHO, what'll end up happening is that Germany will order additional F-35s and try to buy into GCAP industrially (very unlikely, as I don't see any partner willing to give up their share of development), or try to come up with something alongside Saab and any other willing participant from continental Europe.
Germany has a serious industrial base it needs to keep alive, just like each member of the trio -- this is a major part of why they even want to develop a new fighter in the first place. Do you really think any participant would relinquish its share of development of the aircraft design, radar, the engine, key airframe structures, etc., and adjust the design for a new participant when the program has already gone through significant design work and is slated to fly a demonstrator in 2028?
 
Here me out (i know this sounds crazy) being able to build the plane themself? Even if that means all the capabilities are split between the 3 nations. Then if germany for example joins there workshare is only scaled at there own orders and only for them / doesn't replace the capabilities of the original 3.
That might be possible... basically a localization program like "Make in India". You could probably aim for 60-70% local content with "Make in Germany". Plus Germany could install some of its own national equipment (much like Israel does on US fighters), i.e. sensors comms, EW etc, bringing the total German content to 80%+.

Also possible to throw Airbus DS a bone with some R&D packages for components where there will be a dual supply-chain (Airbus DS + another GCAP partner) so that Germany can't block exports and also for some software (e.g. flight control system, which is harder to block once Edgewing owns the software IP).

Done that way it might be win-win for all without the GCAP countries having to give away too much R&D work or production workshare and without having to worry about exports.
 
yea but germany could go a bit furthur and start making their own indigenous radar and electronics for their version of the GCAP while keeping all the structural elements. I dont know if this is even possible or really feasable to do something of this sort with the help of the OEM but it is an option.
Develop a second, smaller manned GCAP program airframe out of GCAP demonstrator and German Eurofoghter components(ECRS 1, etc)?
 
Develop a second, smaller manned GCAP program airframe out of GCAP demonstrator and German Eurofoghter components(ECRS 1, etc)?
yes but that would take significantly more time while they could simply leach off the structural works alr being done by the consortium rather than having to do the entire thing differently. They could give airbus ToT or what not and produce the airframe and other critical parts in germany as well.
Idk if its politically feasable considering workshare agreements and also germany industry disagreements.

@MODS i kinda forgot that this was a news thread, could you kindly move my posts to the speculation thread? Would be highly appreciated ! @Deino
 
yes but that would take significantly more time while they could simply leach off the structural works alr being done by the consortium rather than having to do the entire thing differently. They could give airbus ToT or what not and produce the airframe and other critical parts in germany as well.
Idk if its politically feasable considering workshare agreements and also germany industry disagreements.
Germans weren't in a rush anyway; their goal was learning.
That way they got to learn off an airframe made by experienced entities, at a comfortable pace, without directly endangering GCAP competencies and schedule.
And should they politically screw up - that will be broadly their own fault. But at the same time, they can be inside the program and aw such have full priority access to GCAP full.
 
https://www.47news.jp/14684180.html
GCAP production for Japan has been announced to be in the MHI Komaki South Plant. This is the same complex where the F-35 FACO is at, so not all that surprising. Its expected that the MRJ facilities will be repurposed for GCAP manufacturing.
“It is reported that British engineers are already coming and going at the Komaki South Plant, working on the design of the aircraft and other tasks.”It is heartening to see that cooperation with engineers from various countries appears to be going smoothly.
 
So final assembly now confirmed in Warton UK, Turin Italy and Komaki South in Japan.
Well, likely major work at each, have we actually had a formal confirmation of national final assembly lines from Edgewing or GIGO?
 
I guess this is a potential replacement for the F-15SG fleet. Their roles are similar; both are large, long-range air superiority fighters/bomb trucks.

The first of the F-15SGs were delivered in 2009, so by 2040, they'll be three decades old and ready for (presumably Japanese-built) GCAP fighters to take their place.
 
I'm probably misusing the term 'bomb truck', but is GCAP not intended to cart around a bunch of munitions?
 
An internal payload of twice that of F-35 would certainly indicate that.....
Depends on how deep the bay is.

Remember, F-22 has roughly twice the weapons count of F-35 but cannot carry nukes or 2000lb bombs.

But if GCAP is designed around a weapons bay able to carry 19-20" tall weapons like F-35 that's a different statement entirely.
 
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https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/soubiseisaku/project/gaiyo_r080520.pdf
The document notes that Japan is slated to be responsible for the fighter jet airframe, communication systems, high-pressure compressors, and high-pressure turbines,etc.

https://rssystem.go.jp/project/395a034a-36f4-40c0-879b-ede1ac1cea1a?activeKey=detailed-breakdown
According to these documents, over 110 billion yen(690million USD) has been allocated for prototype development costs in the 2025 fiscal year alone, with the figure rising to 130 billion yen(815million USD) next year.
Development of the prototype airframe—a task assigned to Japan—may already be underway.
Furthermore, Leonardo UK has stated that the radar systems used by Japan and the UK differ.

If that is the case, it may be possible to shorten the development period for the Japan-specific GCAP by two years.
 
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Yes says help is currently being received by the Japanese GIGO branch from allies setting up international standard manufacturing and repair facilities and installing a secure networking communication link for information exchange. Says each country retains design authority to make their own modifications to the aircraft so the Japanese version will be more configured for co-operative communication with the US forces than British/Italian with a different Electronic Warfare suite.

Interesting program phasing showing long term thinking:
Planning and R&D stage April 2009-2035
Mass Production stage 2028 onwards
Operations and Maintenance stage 2035 onwards
Disposal stage 2068 onwards

Currently on schedule for deployment in 2035

Unmanned fighter, Operational concept developed in fiscal 2025, no R&D progress yet with conceptual R&D phase to begin in fiscal 2026 and run through fiscal 2028. Manufacturing phase 2028-2035 and Deployment scheduled for 2035 to coincide with GCAP introduction. Suggests Japan will be significantly behind the UK in this respect.
 
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I neglected to mention this earlier, but the procurement contract for the prototype engine and airframe was already concluded in 2024, with a delivery date of March 2029.
It is stated in this government-issued document.
1517次期戦闘機(その6)(1)
1518次期戦闘機(その6)(2)次期戦闘機用エンジン(その5)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ouid=114063174981890544872&rtpof=true&sd=true

Therefore, the prototype's first flight will take place in the second half of 2029.
 
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So Demonstrator 2027 and first prototype 2029? Makes me wonder how mutch actualy gets demonstrated
 
Rather than "demonstration" it's more about getting subsystems & software which could develope "faster" in details getting realworld semi-full integration asap without having to wait for the actual prototype.
 
So Demonstrator 2027 and first prototype 2029? Makes me wonder how mutch actualy gets demonstrated
Building the demonstrator is probably the majority of the "demonstrating". A lot of avionics are already flying on testbeds instead, and as far as I've understood the demonstrator is mostly for the manufacturing aspect.
 
So Demonstrator 2027 and first prototype 2029? Makes me wonder how mutch actualy gets demonstrated
Not "how much" gets demonstrated, but "what".

I mean, F1 is laser-sinter 3d printing their titanium halo bars and roll cages. Critical safety structures. I bet somone is asking if they can affordably 3d print titanium wing spars.
 

GCAP timeline could shrink ‘by a couple of years,’ Leonardo CEO says​

https://breakingdefense.com/2026/07...hrink-by-a-couple-of-years-leonardo-ceo-says/
Even if we're talking about a slightly nerfed version here, GCAP development is maybe not blazingly fast, but it's certainly not crawling either. The member states knew what they wanted and needed, made a realistic assesment, and then proceeded to not deviate from the chosen path.

And what you get is a program that by all accounts is just going to deliver what is requested, on time.

I cannot imagine that they're all that anxious to let Germany become anything but the most junior of partners, because anything else would undoubtly throw a spanner in the works of a well oiled machine.
 
Even if we're talking about a slightly nerfed version here, GCAP development is maybe not blazingly fast, but it's certainly not crawling either. The member states knew what they wanted and needed, made a realistic assesment, and then proceeded to not deviate from the chosen path.

And what you get is a program that by all accounts is just going to deliver what is requested, on time.

I cannot imagine that they're all that anxious to let Germany become anything but the most junior of partners, because anything else would undoubtly throw a spanner in the works of a well oiled machine.
I mean it's not that crazy when you consider that 6th gen concept studies go back to 2010 with i3 for Japan and 2015 with Tempest for the UK and how far along Japan was with F-X prior to the merger with a bunch of demonstrator subsystems already built and tested. With the open architecture approach of GCAP, it was probably pretty easy align the broad requirements of the airframe and leave a lot of the smaller details down to the individual nation that they identified in the concept phase rather than needing to bicker and agree on every single aspect of every subsystem.

Honestly I hope they go a bit more ambitious on the actual airframe side of things as that is the main thing that can't be meaningfully altered in the future. Still at least with interviews even a few months ago, what we've been shown are only "concepts" or "representative models", but it really comes to how much change we might see in the final design.
 
Even if we're talking about a slightly nerfed version here, GCAP development is maybe not blazingly fast, but it's certainly not crawling either. The member states knew what they wanted and needed, made a realistic assesment, and then proceeded to not deviate from the chosen path.

And what you get is a program that by all accounts is just going to deliver what is requested, on time.

I cannot imagine that they're all that anxious to let Germany become anything but the most junior of partners, because anything else would undoubtly throw a spanner in the works of a well oiled machine.
It's a bit early to sing praises when flying hardware is years away. "Well-oiled" is a bit too high for a program that was forced through by Japanese pm just months ago, and that is before Middle Eastern (or others, there are many years of opportunities for things to go even worse) effects even kick in.
 

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