Turkey Shoot - Iranian Drone and Missile attack on Israel

The Emad missile, and I think some of the other liquid fueled designs as well, use a separating MARV. So a number of empty first stage missile bodies have been recovered. Whether the warhead/second stage was shot down would be unknown.
 
DrRansom said:
That base would be completely indefensible during an actual conflict.
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From what kind of attack?

If it's got Patriots and/or THAAD, it's got pretty good AA coverage. I'm sure it's got several CRAM phalanx guns, so hitting it with artillery won't be easy. I'd expect it to have an artillery battery and counter-battery radar, too.

About the only attack I expect it to struggle with is massed armor.
 
In my opinion, the side that merely reacts to the enemy's initiatives is the one that loses the war. V-1 missiles only stopped falling in London when Allied troops conquered launch pads in France and Holland. The intervention of the British fighters was epic but not decisive.
 
Justo Miranda said:
In my opinion, the side that merely reacts to the enemy's initiatives is the one that loses the war. V-1 missiles only stopped falling in London when Allied troops conquered launch pads in France and Holland. The intervention of the British fighters was epic but not decisive.
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Yes, it will be ... interesting to see what the Israeli response is. I suspect it will be swift in coming.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yes, it will be ... interesting to see what the Israeli response is. I suspect it will be swift in coming.
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Reportedly it was originally planned for Monday but has been postponed twice, partly due to operational reasons and partly due to everyone telling them not to escalate. The IAEA warned them not to hit nuclear facilities (which is the action they had likely elected to take) as it could cause a nuclear disaster and the US told them they wouldn't provide logistical support for a retaliation. The Israelis don't presently have any aerial tankers though they have 4 on order.
 
The IAF operates around a half dozen 707 boom equipped tankers and a somewhat larger number of C-130 probe/drogue type tankers, last time I looked it up. I doubt that has changed. The problem with strikes against Iran is that said tankers would have to operate in some other country's airspace, which would require their cooperation or forced compliance, as well as being quite visible on most any air traffic control radar barring a rather elaborate ruse or use of force against a very wide area.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yes, it will be ... interesting to see what the Israeli response is. I suspect it will be swift in coming.
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I don't think we'll be allowed to talk about the actual war, but in the case of 1944 the response of the Germans was to retreat to the other side of the Rhine River and blow up the bridges.
 
Apparently the 707's arent serviceable/compatible with F-35's so they have four KC-46A on order to replace them at a cost of $927m. They keep borrowing US tankers during training flights with the last exercise in Nevada they lent their 707's to the US to supply their aircraft in return for borrowing KC-46 to refuel their own F-35i's. In the last exercise in Europe the 707's resupplied US F-15 and Israeli F-16i while the US KC-135 supplied the F-35i.
 
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WatcherZero said:
Apparently the 707's arent serviceable/compatible with F-35's so they have four KC-46A on order to replace them at a cost of $927m. They keep borrowing US tankers during training flights with the last exercise in Nevada they lent their 707's to the US to supply their aircraft in return for borrowing KC-46 to refuel their own F-35i's. In the last exercise in Europe the 707's resupplied US F-15 and Israeli F-16i while the US KC-135 supplied the F-35i.
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Do you have a source? It is hard to imagine why a boom equipped tanker would be incompatible with any USAF product.
 
Omega received certification in September 2019 after 707 type trials, they use drogues (they have sets of both for their tankers to serve different aircraft types) unlike Israel which uses booms.
Looking into it more as far back as at least 2021 Israel didn't think the 707 can provide refuelling for strike missions, only being good for combat air patrols over Israel due to the 707's range, capacity, age, and inability to take on fuel itself so they did a parallel track of pursuing the KC-46 and developing drop tanks for their F-35's.

www.twz.com

Israel's Request To Speed Delivery Of KC-46 Tankers Critical For Striking Iran Denied

The KC-46As would go a long way to bolstering Israel's already small and dwindling tanker fleet.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
WatcherZero said:
Omega received certification in September 2019 after 707 type trials, they use drogues (they have sets of both for their tankers to serve different aircraft types) unlike Israel which uses booms.
Looking into it more as far back as at least 2021 Israel didn't think the 707 can provide refuelling for strike missions, only being good for combat air patrols over Israel due to the 707's range, capacity, age, and inability to take on fuel itself so they did a parallel track of pursuing the KC-46 and developing drop tanks for their F-35's.

www.twz.com

Israel's Request To Speed Delivery Of KC-46 Tankers Critical For Striking Iran Denied

The KC-46As would go a long way to bolstering Israel's already small and dwindling tanker fleet.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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Found some reports suggesting that the Raam tankers were grounded sometime in 2021.

m.jpost.com

US rejects Israeli request for tanker aircraft as Iran plans advance

The US has reportedly rejected an Israeli request to fast-track the delivery of two tanker aircraft.
m.jpost.com m.jpost.com
 
WatcherZero said:
Omega received certification in September 2019 after 707 type trials, they use drogues (they have sets of both for their tankers to serve different aircraft types) unlike Israel which uses booms.
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Sure. But it's a clue that there's no aerodynamic reason preventing Israel from refueling their F-35As with their 707s should they really need it. I mean the boom will fit. :D

WatcherZero said:
Looking into it more as far back as at least 2021 Israel didn't think the 707 can provide refuelling for strike missions, only being good for combat air patrols over Israel due to the 707's range, capacity, age, and inability to take on fuel itself so they did a parallel track of pursuing the KC-46 and developing drop tanks for their F-35's.
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OK, so the 707 is irrelevant then.

The drop tanks could be ready by now if the timeline mentioned in this article held. It says could be ready in 2 years, article is from April 2021.
 
Grey Havoc said:
thehill.com

Russia, Iran turning Israel and Ukraine into ‘battlefield laboratories,’ experts say

Russia and Iran are using Ukraine and Israel as “battlefield laboratories” to probe at Western military vulnerabilities, experts told a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee Wednesday. “Together…
thehill.com thehill.com
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If, after generating so much horror, they have not managed to raise the price of oil, they will have murdered many innocent people for nothing. The 1973 manual is definitely outdated.
 
@Archibald : IMOHO it would be ridiculous and turn Israel gov as another fist waving autocratic regime that threatens and launch ballistic missiles on every occasion.

Those things are meant to stay underground.

But we are OT. This thread is for the 14th of April operations.
 
With no blessing from US, any normal strikes will not be possible. Sending agents over will be a more acceptable choice.
 
SK2 said:
With no blessing from US, any normal strikes will not be possible. Sending agents over will be a more acceptable choice.
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Lets not forget that Iran probably has acess to real time intel, given by Russian recon planes and satellites, which means, any missile or combat aircraft leaving Israel territory, will be known by Iran, who will take measures to counter them.
 
pedrospe said:
Lets not forget that Iran probably has acess to real time intel, given by Russian recon planes and satellites, which means, any missile or combat aircraft leaving Israel territory, will be known by Iran, who will take measures to counter them.
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Russia’s available space and air assets are marginal, but presumably the any radars in Syria, to include a single Syrian S300 system and a Russian S400 system, could see IDF aircraft at higher altitudes.
 
Early days, reports of 3 armed drones and Iran is saying they were launched from Iraq. US says no manned aircraft involved, nuclear facilities weren't targeted and the US was given 24-36 hours notice by Israel. Australia has told its citizens to get out of Israel immediately.
 
Archibald said:
It's mind-blowing how Middle-East can push the boundaries of the word clusterf*ck, one crisis after another. That place is really hopeless.
Any idea what Israel used to strike ? "unmanned" nowadays can mean drone, cruise missile or ballistic missile. Or all three together.
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CBS is reporting "a missile".
 
 
publiusr said:
So how well have Iranian defenses looked? Too early to tell?
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Well....,it would help if the missiles actually made it all the way to iran. ;)
https://twitter.com/x/status/1781249214976061443
Evidently there has been the odd "technical hitch" as they say.
Of course it could be a separating warhead type like the iranian missiles and we`re just looking at the spent booster.
 
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Archibald said:
It's mind-blowing how Middle-East can push the boundaries of the word clusterf*ck, one crisis after another. That place is really hopeless.
Any idea what Israel used to strike ? "unmanned" nowadays can mean drone, cruise missile or ballistic missile. Or all three together.
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Judging by the remnants found in iraq its some sort of albm,so that rules out this being an iranian missile from the strike on israel
GLhEuLFWMAAiubs.jpg
You can see the mounting points on top of the missile body
 
Grey Havoc said:
breakingdefense.com

Iran says it shot down Israel's attack. Here’s what air defense systems it might have used. - Breaking Defense

Tehran has been increasingly public about its air defense capabilities, including showing off models of systems at a recent international defense expo.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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In my opinion, Israel seems more interested in identifying enemy leaders than their defense systems. Perhaps the recent attack was actually a top-level intelligence operation to identify the location of command centers, the frequencies of their communication systems, and even the voice of high-ranking officers. That information could be a good exchange item to improve your international relations.
 
Its hard to tell what if anything Israel hit, theres videos of some large explosions but no craters or scorch marks on sat imagery of the region to indicate damage on the ground. Theres some FIRMS of heat blooms that match occupied defilade positions of an S300 battery defending the area seen in images a fortnight earlier that some people are saying is evidence the S300 battery itself was the target, though the positions are empty with no vehicles, debris or scorches there in sat recon images the following morning, so the FIRMS might have been seeing launches and the erectors have since driven off to be reloaded.
 

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