Textron AirLand (Cessna) Scorpion - a light attack, reconnaissance jet project

[compton_effect]

That first client might be a tough one, what with interest in the AHRLAC, the closest thing the Scorpion has to a competing design.

 

[Triton]

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140903-low-cost-fighter-jets-take-off

 

[cluttonfred]

Neat, but at $20 million apiece the Scorpion is still not exactly cheap. I don't think the comparison to the CAC/PAC JF-17 is really valid, as the real competition for the Scorpion is a variety of second-hand 1960s-1980s jets. It would be interesting to see an absolutely bare-bones, single-engine, modern light jet along the lines of the Folland Gnat/HAL Ajeet in the sub-$10 million price range, I think that would really change the dynamics of the market. I wonder how much an Alenia Aermacchi M-345 actually costs?

 

[totoro]

I don't think we'll ever see a 10-20 million combat aircraft offered for western markets. margin for profit there would be miniscule, perhaps a few million per plane at purchase then another 5-10 million over the next 30-40 years for support. There simply doesn't seem to be a market for that. There aren't enough buyers and enough potential sales in western markets.

On the other hand, all those pilots and ground crews (however smaller ground crews might be) still require full pay. Overall, the cost reduction of entire system (people, infrastructure, planes, support) would not follow the cost reduction of plane/support.

Seriously, how many such light combat planes might western markets need? a few hundred? For maybe two billion dollars of profit spread over 40 years, NOT taking into account research and development, factory prep costs? So final, clear profit would be miniscule. Over 40 years. Terrible return on investment. There's no company in the world that wouldn't invest its billions into something else.

If the market was different- then maybe. But with second hand fighters to compete as high end, with various russian planes or trainers-come-barebone combat planes on the medium end and with chinese planes taking the low end spectrum of earnings (plus chinese trainers taking the ultra low end) - there is hardly a place in the world market for such a western-produced plane.

Western markets- maybe, with political lobbying taking care of russian/chinese competition, but still, that western market in itself is too small to support such a project.

Now, if one was talking about a barebone project in general, not just western produced one, then i'm sure chinese low wages can get you bare bone planes to do the job one wants. their last j-7 (before production stopped) were exported to africa for 12 or so million dollars a pop. And thats a mach 2 plane with half decent avionics for its size. They have other options too, not just the 20-30 million jh-17. There's the jl-10 trainer (l15 for export?) and the jl-9 trainer based combat planes (redesigned j-7). There's simply no competing with those prices and such offerings.

i am interested to see how Scorpion might do sales wise but i am not holding my breath, it seems to me its sales will be pretty weak. (it'd be nice to know development costs though. anyone have a figure for those?)

 

[TomS]

http://www.metwashairports.com/7366.htm

I spotted the Scorpion prototype flying into National Airport on Saturday, around 10:30 or so. Nothing particularly noteworthy to report, though. The lpane did seem darker than shown in most pictures, but I chalk that up to some backlighting.

 

[marauder2048]

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/textron-readies-scorpion-jet-for-production-406051/

Textron readies Scorpion jet for production
By: STEPHEN TRIMBLEWASHINGTON DC Source: Flightglobal.com 20:38 13 Nov 2014
Textron AirLand has started making preliminary decisions ahead of launching the production phase of the light attack and reconnaissance Scorpion jet.

A formal production launch depends on signing the first order, but Textron AirLand is already selecting suppliers for the production phase, a spokesman says.

Honeywell has been selected to deliver a turbofan engine – the TFE731-40AR-3S – for the twinjet. It is the same engine currently powering the developmental prototype.

In September, Textron Aviation chief executive Scott Ernest said a launch order for the Scorpion could be announced by the end of this year.

“I feel pretty good that we’re in a position to definitely get something done this year,” Ernest says. “There are several interested parties albeit outside the United States. This is a product that has the ability to be a very economical operating product.”

Textron AirLand developed the product in secret for two years before unveiling the prototype in September 2013. It has flown more than 200h and appeared at the Farnborough air show and the US Air Force Association’s annual convention near Washington DC.

UAE is rumored to be the launch customer.

 

[compton_effect]

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37048:nigeria-looking-to-buy-scorpion-jets&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107


Nigeria looking to buy Scorpion jets
The Nigerian Air Force (NAF) is looking to buy 12 Scorpion jets from Textron AirLand to equip a single squadron in order to fight the Boko Haram insurgency gripping the country.Air Vice Marshal Rufus A Ojuawo, the director of operations for the Nigerian Air Force, said the NAF wants and needs the Scorpion and that a formal request to buy could be made soon.

He was speaking at the IQPC Fighter Conference in London yesterday, the Wall Street Journal reports.“We are really handicapped in attacking the enemy where we want,” Ojuawo said. “We need capabilities for a timely response.” The NAF uses seven Mi-24 attack helicopters for counter-insurgency operations as well as 11 F-7 fighter jets, 21 L-39ZA Albatros, 12 MB-339 and 12 Alpha Jet trainer/light attack aircraft.

However, the majority of these aircraft are several decades old and have been worn down by attrition. The F-7s are unable to carry precision guided air to surface weapons while the country’s ATR 72 surveillance aircraft are able to detect insurgent activity but not deploy weapons.Ojuawo told IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly that the Air Force has obsolete equipment with low serviceability rates and that it needs a rapid response capability with concentrated firepower.

He added that the NAF would shortly argue the Scorpion’s case with the government in the hope of initially buying a squadron’s worth of aircraft and possibly more in the future.The Scorpion first flew in December 2013 as a private venture aimed at providing an affordable, versatile tactical aircraft for diverse missions such as counter-insurgency, irregular warfare, border patrol, maritime surveillance, emergency relief, counter-narcotics and air defence operations.

Powered by twin turbofan engines generating 8 000 lbs of thrust, the Scorpion is billed as being one of the cheapest military jets, with a price tag of $20 million and operating costs of $3 000 an hour, compared to $25 000 an hour for an F-16. One of the ways Textron AirLand is keeping the cost down is from using many parts from existing Cessna platforms. The Scorpion has a cruising speed of up to 830 km/h (517 mph), with a ferry range of 4 400 km/2 760 miles.

The aircraft carries an internal payload of up to 1 360 kg/3 000 lb, as well as wing-mounted precision munitions. It also has two retractable sensor mounts. Mostly made out of composites, the Scorpion has a 14.4 m wingspan.

To perform its intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR)/ground attack missions, the unswept wings are equipped with six hard points in addition to an internal payload bay.

Textron AirLand has said that it could deliver aircraft 18 months after receiving an order.
However, Ojuawo was concerned that the United States may decline a request for Scorpion jets due to the country’s human rights record and the fact that the US previously rejected its request for Bell AH-1 Cobra attack helicopters.

 

[fightingirish]

Flight International - Scorpion team reveals design changes, sales target for 2015

 

[marauder2048]

Scorpion to India?

http://www.janes.com/article/51099/carter-to-offer-scorpion-to-india-under-joint-development-plan

Carter will sign a 10-year India-US Defence Framework Agreement and fast-track the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), under which the two countries will co-develop and co-produce military equipment in India.

Industry sources said that under the DTTI, which Carter initiated as deputy defence secretary in 2012, the US was expected to offer the Textron AirLand Scorpion light-attack and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft currently being developed to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, who is believed to have expressed interest in the Scorpion, believes the twin-seat platform can double as an intermediate jet trainer (IJT). The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays to the Sitara (Star) platform, which Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been developing since 2005.

At the 2014 Farnborough Airshow, Textron officials told IHS Jane's that the Scorpion would cost less than USD20 million to procure and around USD3,000 per hour to operate. The company has also outlined a sales target of 2,000 platforms to international operators over the coming years. It did not respond to requests for comment on the potential deal with India.

 

[yasotay]

Given the challenges India continues to have with programs, one has to wonder how excited Textron will be with the proposition.

 

[bring_it_on]

The Rapid Development of the Scorpion Aircraft Podcast (1 hour) - Royal Aeronautical Society

http://aerosociety.com/news/Podcast/2754/The-Rapid-Development-of-the-Scorpion-Aircraft

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28260781

 

[GTX]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28260781

Why are we regurgitating articles from 12mths ago??

 

[Grey Havoc]

Woops, meant to post another article. I'll see if I can find it. Thanks for the catch!

 

[Moose]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-15/built-on-spec-jet-fighter-puts-textron-on-hunt-to-drum-up-buyers

To reach the show, the Scorpion completed its second trans-Atlantic flight and reached 400 hours of flight-testing. It will travel around Europe for several weeks after the event for trial runs by interested companies.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Can't find it, so I'll put in this link instead: http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2015/interest-scorpion-picks

 

[Flyaway]

Textron's Scorpion Heads To UK For RAF, Royal Naval Trials.

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/06/textrons-scorpion-heads-to-uk-for-raf-royal-navy-trials/

 

[Stargazer]

Is the concept of alternate straight/swept wing configurations for the Scorpion still in the air? I find it a brilliant idea to offer the same basic airframe with two possible wing configurations, and wonder if this has ever been done before.

Also, has anyone ever seen a drawing of that proposed swept-wing Scorpion?

 

[sferrin]

Is the concept of alternate straight/swept wing configurations for the Scorpion still in the air? I find it a brilliant idea to offer the same basic airframe with two possible wing configurations, and wonder if this has ever been done before.

Also, has anyone ever seen a drawing of that proposed swept-wing Scorpion?

The F-84 had both straight and swept wings but it wasn't an option, they were separate models.

 

[Sundog]

Is the concept of alternate straight/swept wing configurations for the Scorpion still in the air? I find it a brilliant idea to offer the same basic airframe with two possible wing configurations, and wonder if this has ever been done before.

Also, has anyone ever seen a drawing of that proposed swept-wing Scorpion?

I don't think we'll see the swept wing version until they release their T-X quote.

 

[mrmalaya]

There is an article on Jane's which states that Textron plan to introduce a mild wing sweep into the production version 6 degrees for weight balance.

They also say that the T-X requirements have nothing to do with Scorpion now.


http://www.janes.com/article/52381/paris-air-show-2015-production-standard-scorpion-to-fly-next-year

 

[GTX]

They also say that the T-X requirements have nothing to do with Scorpion now.

Translation: we know we don't have a hope in hell of being successful with a TX bid.

 

[Sundog]

There is an article on Jane's which states that Textron plan to introduce a mild wing sweep into the production version 6 degrees for weight balance.

They also say that the T-X requirements have nothing to do with Scorpion now.


http://www.janes.com/article/52381/paris-air-show-2015-production-standard-scorpion-to-fly-next-year

Oh, O.K., thanks I didn't know they said that, but it makes sense. I was wondering how they could take something already designed and make it meet the TX requirements with just a wing change. However, since they began development in 2012, they were probably thinking TX before the new requirements were issued.

 

[marauder2048]

They also say that the T-X requirements have nothing to do with Scorpion now.

Translation: we know we don't have a hope in hell of being successful with a TX bid.

Textron AirLand is another potential contender that could offer its new Scorpion light attack and reconnaissance jet for the T-X program. But the USAF’s stated requirement for sustained G turns in particular would demand a higher-thrust engine and a wing different from the Scorpion’s current unswept design.

“We would be looking at a derivative with a different wing and engines to meet the sustained-G requirement,” Dale Tutt, the Scorpion program’s chief engineer, told AIN. However, Tutt said a recent request for information from the USAF omitted the sustained-G requirement, so “there seems to be some reassessment of that.”

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2015-06-18/us-air-forces-t-x-requirements-test-field

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.janes.com/article/52602/paris-air-show-2015-textron-airland-scorpion-update

 

[bring_it_on]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yY0yEtxt-Q&list=WL&index=263

 

[seruriermarshal]

New Pics of Scorpion

 

[bring_it_on]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9Xr-4mQm4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICTpA6qjyPM

 

[Triton]

https://youtu.be/qlEpIW6EW7Y

 

[Triton]

Published on Jun 29, 2015

Paris Air Show 2015 Textron AirLand Scorpion update

https://youtu.be/gSg7PHeJgYk

 

[Triton]

"Navy interest in Scorpion Jet as Textron seeks USAF certification"
24 September, 2015 BY: James Drew Washington DC

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/navy-interest-in-scorpion-jet-as-textron-seeks-usaf-417101/

Textron AirLand is courting the US Navy in its quest for a Scorpion Jet launch customer, with the seafaring service exploring ways to keep its Boeing F/A-18 pilots mission-ready without having to put too many extra flight hours on its war-fatigued fighters.

The Scorpion project is also pursuing airworthiness certification with the US Air Force under a new initiative designed to make American military products more attractive on the international market.

Textron AirLand president Bill Anderson says the subsonic surveillance and strike aircraft attracted significant interest from several prospective international customers during a recent visit to Washington, DC, but the team also engaged with representatives from the US Defence Department and navy.

“They recognise the Scorpion’s capability for maritime patrol, but they are really looking for ways to keep their pilots relevant and mission-ready without having to fly all those hours on high-end assets – in this case their Super Hornets,” Anderson tells Flightglobal in an interview. “And, from a testing perspective, the navy is using old [Lockheed Martin P-3 submarine hunter aircraft] for some sensor and even weapons testing at an exceptionally high cost per hour and very, very low readiness. So they see the value of the aircraft from a test perspective.”

Many older and newer navy F/A-18s are running up against the end of their structural lives far sooner than planned because of enduring operational commitments and the slow introduction of the Lockheed Martin F-35C. It appears the navy is now looking for ways to avoid putting all of those extra pilot training and qualification hours on aging mission aircraft, at least for low-end missions.

“A lot of air forces are looking at [the Scorpion] because their fourth- and fifth-generation fighters are actually running up against their life limits and they’re very hard to maintain and very expensive to operate – but you have to keep your pilots mission-ready,” Anderson adds.

The Scorpion team has been scouring the globe in search of a military customer, or perhaps even a commercial supplier of fighter pilot training. To date, there have been plenty of nibbles but no firm commitments or orders.

Still, Textron remains committed to the Scorpion project even at significant cost, and a second production-representative example is being assembled with plans for first flight in 2016 – possibly in May.

“Obviously this is a military programme. We’re not really selling onesies and twosies – we’ve got to get an air force to commit to buying a fleet of these airplanes, which would make sense for the country,” Anderson says. “Those efforts take a little longer than selling individual airplanes to commercial customers.”

Anderson says to make the aircraft more attractive to potential buyers, Textron has expressed interest having USAF certify its second example in the updated configuration.

The service has sought responses from industry for a new initiative where companies can certify their aircraft with the military at their own expense.

“We’re ready to go,” Anderson says. “It’s clearly in the interest of the United States to help US industry be competitive overseas. Since the US Air Force is a recognised world-class air force, I think it would mean a lot in the international market.”

The current Scorpion demonstrator is operating under an FAA experimental type certificate, and Anderson says Scorpion will meet even the most stringent US military airworthiness standards.

 

[Triton]

"Scorpion will not be proposed for USAF T-X competition"
24 September, 2015 BY: James Drew Washington DC

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/scorpion-will-not-be-proposed-for-usaf-t-x-competiti-417108/

Textron AirLand’s Scorpion in its current form has been ruled out as a competitor for the US Air Force’s T-X next-generation trainer programme to replace the Northrop T-38, according to the joint venture’s president Bill Anderson.

The requirements template for T-X has evolved considerably ahead of an anticipated competition in 2017, and Textron’s engineering analysis suggests the air force now wants a high-performance fly-by-wire trainer with top tier handling qualities, and not a low-cost advanced jet trainer requiring little development.

“From the engineering analysis we have done, this looks like a very complex, high-performance aircraft that in our estimation is going to be pretty expensive,” says Anderson. “Scorpion as-is is not a competitor for T-X.”

According to a July statement from the USAF's Air Education and Training Command, the service wants an aircraft capable of 7.5g turns “while losing no more than 2,000ft of vertical altitude and 10% of the initial airspeed”.

The air force is mostly interested in an aircraft that will prepare its pilots to operate fifth-generation fighters such as the Lockheed F-22 and F-35 – but also sixth-generation aircraft to be introduced in the 2030s, as T-X could be in service for up to 50 years.

Anderson says T-X appears to need “Level 1 handling qualities” and probably fly-by-wire controls to achieve the draft performance requirements, and probably also needs to be a supersonic aircraft – although that is not presently an objective.

Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman are each pursuing T-X with clean sheet designs, and flying prototypes are already being assembled.

Anderson says Textron is still involved in the air force’s industry engagement process, but has not decided whether to compete.

“We continue to look at it; we continue to provide the air force feedback and the company has made no decisions at all on it,” he says. “We are interested, obviously, because it’s a big programme, but we continue to watch the programme evolve.

“We’ve got the Scorpion ISR/strike attack airplane and we’re really concentrating on getting that sold.”

 

[Flyaway]

Scorpion jet offered for UK training deal

Textron AirLand’s Scorpion jet has emerged as an early contender for a significant military training deal in the UK, with the versatile type to be offered under a new teaming agreement with Qinetiq and Thales.

First details of the UK’s Air Support to Defence Operational Training (ASDOT) requirement emerged earlier this year, with a new capability expected to enter use in January 2020. Qinetiq and Thales subsequently performed “a comprehensive analysis of over 50 aircraft”, before selecting the twin-engined Scorpion. This would be equipped with sensors and other equipment such as jamming pods, and used “to provide a broad spectrum of training for all three armed services”, according to Qinetiq – including providing a “hostile” capability during the instruction of fighter pilots.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-scorpion-jet-offered-for-uk-training-de-427311/

 

[SteveO]

Interesting news, I had thought it would make a good replacement for the Dassault Falcon's EW training role. Hopefully this will help get the ball rolling for the Scorpion program.

I'm looking forward to seeing the production version take flight soon. Anyone seen any images of it yet?

 

[Moose]

I've not seen any yet.

The persistent rumor/gossip around Scorpion has been that there are a number of buyers interested but none wanted to be the launch customer and deal with those headaches. So it will be interesting to see, if the UK selects it, whether there's a sudden surge of other orders immediately following.

 

[TomS]

I guess I don't see what a plane like Scorpion would offer compared to the various light business jets that are already used in the role. They have an edge in volume, but I guess the bay and pallet approach would make for easier access?

 

[riggerrob]

Also consider the cost of the logistics tail.
The more stock Citation parts (engines, avionics, actuators, pumps, undercarriage, instruments, etc.) the cheaper production and the easier it will be to keep the Scorpion fleet airworthy. Third World air forces will buy older Citation executive jets, officially as "VIP transports."
They might even use stock Citation business jets as trainers, but in the long run dismantle them to provide spare parts to keep Scorpions airworthy. This is where installing older Citation parts provides low cost of development and even lower long-term maintenance costs.
Eventually Third World air bases would be littered with gutted Citations sitting on blocks.

They could also avoid embargoes by only buying second-hand "civilian" airplanes and non-classified spare parts from a dozen after-market overhaulers. Given the much lower cost of life-limited components, Citations and Scorpions could maintain pilot-proficiency at a fraction of the cost of supersonic jets. that is why the RCAF kept CT-133 jet trainers in service decades after other NATO nations: they were already in inventory, wore out slowly and there was a huge inventory of spare parts.

Granted, a variety of sensors are already certified to hang from a variety of business jets, but NATO Standard wing pylons and that huge center bay allow Scorpions to carry a wide variety of weapons. NATO Standard wing pylons can launch munitions from dozens of different factories, easing arms supply during long-running conflicts or arms embargoes.
Remember that sophisticated new warplanes always come with diplomatic "strings." Any time an American special-interest group accuses a Third-World Air Force of bombing innocent women and children, Congress has to be seen to stop the flow of spare parts.
Modern software is also often time-limited/consumable, and without the latest software, complex weapons systems degrade or fail.
For example, Scorpions might be offered with modern trainable gun turrets linked to a sophisticated helmet-mounted sight, but as soon as they miss a payment, third world forces find that their fancy helmet-mounted sight goes blank. So they are limited to firing straight laterally (ala. C-130 Spectre gunship). If they miss a second payment, guns only fire when locked straight ahead. If they miss a third payment guns go silent.

Scorpions' greatest challenge is carving out a new market niche that is faster than Taliban, faster than Super Tucano but not as fast as First World air forces because Third World air forces need to outgun rebels and bloody the noses of potential invaders, any airplane more expensive will bankrupt the national debt. Often the answer is simply weapons with better sensors than the opposition. Few Third World nations can afford first-tier airplane's and the last thing the USAF wants is to fight first-tier airplane's when they re-invade to oust an uppity dictator (e.g. Noriega). Scorpion is searching for a narrow niche that balances cost with fire-power.

 

[mrmalaya]

More on the ASDOT aggressor requirement Scorpion is aiming at:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-mod-outlines-scope-of-asdot-aggressor-p-427454/

 

[Flyaway]

USAF sets up process for Scorpion airworthiness testing

The US Air Force is moving ahead with an airworthiness assessment of the Scorpion, a dual light attack fighter and trainer aircraft funded by Textron AirLand.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-sets-up-process-for-scorpion-airworthiness-test-427656/

 

[AeroFranz]

A month back I looked out the window of my company's building which is on an airport just outside of DC. Imagine my surprise when i saw the Scorpion. It was there for a demo, most likely for some Pentagon brass. Anyway, i went over their hangar with a bunch of colleagues and took some pictures. The ground crew was working on it post flight and i had a chance to see just how accessible every system is.