TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

[Ainen]

Hürkus and Akinci with Cirit C-UAS at the forefront, fighters at the back with more expensive AAM to take down the leakers.

C-uas doesn't work like this.

 

[snne]

@gugugagayigit 's post from yesterday inspired me to take a look through the latest issue of TAI's Gökvatan magazine, where I stumbled upon this graphic of Kaan's full-scale static test assembly (reportedly instrumented with nearly 5000 strain-gauge channels):

 

[Combat-Master]

Türkiye has revised its industrial strategy for the GE F110 engines intended for the KAAN combat aircraft, shifting focus from licensed production to securing technologies and higher-value work packages.

https://turdef.com/article/exclusive-tuerkiye-revises-kaan-f110-offset-strategy

 

[snne]

Türkiye has revised its industrial strategy for the GE F110 engines intended for the KAAN combat aircraft, shifting focus from licensed production to securing technologies and higher-value work packages.

https://turdef.com/article/exclusive-tuerkiye-revises-kaan-f110-offset-strategy

This isn't quite newsworthy, IMPO...

AFAIK, the -129E is basically the same as our SLEP'd F110s (aside from the FADEC), which we've already worked on and operated. So there's no new technology being secured here; they simply want to expand their share of the higher-value components within the global F110 supply chain to increase their profits...

 

[TwoStep]

An interesting change in terms of Kaan engine development. TRMotor has been restructured as TEI Technology (TEITech) and will work on the Kaan engine and a 3,000shp helicopter engine, TEI will handle existing engine work.

https://www.tei.com.tr/medya/basin-bultenleri/basin-duyurusu

 

[Combat-Master]

An interesting change in terms of Kaan engine development. TRMotor has been restructured as TEI Technology (TEITech) and will work on the Kaan engine and a 3,000shp helicopter engine, TEI will handle existing engine work.

https://www.tei.com.tr/medya/basin-bultenleri/basin-duyurusu

This is their new website, it's full of AI slop placeholders for now
https://teitech.com.tr/en/

 

[snne]

An interesting change in terms of Kaan engine development. TRMotor has been restructured as TEI Technology (TEITech) and will work on the Kaan engine and a 3,000shp helicopter engine, TEI will handle existing engine work.

https://www.tei.com.tr/medya/basin-bultenleri/basin-duyurusu

Forgot to mention the most critical part: the TF35k engineering staff at TEI, which has been doing most of the heavy lifting on the engine's development and has also been working on other engine projects due to TEI's senior specialized talent pool being shared across multiple projects, is also being transferred to TEI Tech to work more closely under the same roof...

 

[gugugagayigit]

Kaan completes its taxi test, nearing its first flight as a couple of ground tests remain

 

[Combat-Master]

"Izmir-based Volt Technology has successfully developed a fully indigenous main electrical power generation system (including the generator, alternator, and control unit) for Türkiye’s fifth-generation fighter jet KAAN. The system was used during KAAN’s taxi tests, supplying power to all of the aircraft’s electrical systems."

https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/ekonomi/vo...lektrik-guc-sistemlerini-gelistirecek/4023913

Liquid cooled generator with peak output of 150kw per engine, that's around 300kw total electrical power at KAANs disposal

 

[Nart]

Liquid cooled generator with peak output of 150kw per engine, that's around 300kw total electrical power at KAANs disposal

Oh, they updated the generators. Nice. They were rated at 120 kW before.

 

[Waterballoon]

2x 150kw output is a lot. It removes the need for more powerful generators for the Block-30 with TF35000 engines.

 

[snne]

It removes the need for more powerful generators for the Block-30 with TF35000 engines.

GCAP will dramatically increase electrical generation by integrating a high-capacity generator directly onto the engine spools, and is supposed to enter service two years after Block 30. I'm sure TA(I), TEI Tech. & Volt also plan to increase electrical generation on the Block 30; especially since the TF35k is going to be a substantially more powerful engine than the F110.

---

I also expect Aselsan to develop a new GaN-on-SiC FCR for the Block 30. They even published a patent earlier this year on GaN-on-SiC X-band Monolithic Microwave Integrated Circuits using Coplanar Waveguide for AESA radar applications...

 

[Radonislav]

Oh, they updated the generators. Nice. They were rated at 120 kW before.

Also in kW, not in kVA. Iirc it was 120kVA before

 

[Forest Green]

I think kW is real power (across resistive loads) and kVA includes real power and reactive power (across inductive and capacitive loads) to get apparent power.

 

[NMaude]

KVA is used for AC electrical power and to determine both the resistive and reactive powers you need to know the power-factor, which IIRC in these type of systems is 0.95.

 

[Forest Green]

...

 

[NMaude]

...

I love the beer pint analogy.

 

[lancer21]

Good overhead CGI showing P0 and P1.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2090070867112017996

View: https://x.com/buchmaru/status/2090070867112017996

 

[snne]

Good overhead CGI showing P0 and P1.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2090070867112017996

View: https://x.com/buchmaru/status/2090070867112017996

However, it should be mentioned that this isn't a perfect "CGI", as there are some details seasoned followers of this topic can nitpick (and the scale - or the angle - isn't quite perfect either).

Still, given the applied textures and relatively accurate designs, it's a relatively good reference material, especially since not many people spend their time and effort modelling the Kaan...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2088648016064647522

View: https://x.com/buchmaru/status/2088648016064647522?s=20

 

[snne]

TA(I) CEO:

With the third prototype, we will also begin Kaan's weapon integration and live munition firing test activities. These tests will cover both the external weapon stations under the wings and the aircraft's internal weapon bays.

P1 and P2 are dedicated flight-test prototypes, while P3 and P4 (and P5 & P6) will focus on sensor and mission-systems testing...

---

Aside from our existing Kaan prototype (means the P0/GTU-0 here), three more of our prototypes are preparing to fly (P1/P2/P3). One of them is very close (P1). Since it's the first one, we're being very careful; everything needs to work perfectly. Hopefully, by fixing the minor issues step by step, very soon see Kaan in the skies. P2 will be coming right after it. As for P3, let's say in the first half of next year. After that, we will build three more prototypes.

---

According to our plan, deliveries from General Electric to us were scheduled to begin in 2027; we are continuing our discussions. At the moment, we are not seeing any problems or delays in engine deliveries.

 

[NMaude]

P1 and P2 are dedicated flight-test prototypes

So basically envelope expansion.

while P3 and P4 (and P5 & P6) will focus on sensor and mission-systems testing...

So preproduction/service test aircraft?

 

[Combat-Master]

TAI General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu
"With the third prototype, we will also begin KAAN's weapon integration and live munition firing test activities. These tests will cover both the external weapon stations under the wings and the aircraft's internal weapon bays."

https://twitter.com/x/status/2090729717246702061

View: https://x.com/SavunmaTR/status/2090729717246702061

 

[snne]

Latest update (C'mon TAI, let the damn thing fly already!)

Obviously, you can't just fly prototypes on a whim, and a project of this magnitude deserves every bit of attention, caution and risk aversion as humanly possible; but TA(I) seems to be moving at a snail's pace again before the first flight, which is starting to eat into their already ambitious timeline for deliveries in Q4 2028/Q1-2 2029 (even if they've built some schedule-risk-mitigation into it, such as pushing IWB certification completion to 2030).

FF of this post-CDR design is more of a ceremonial milestone at this point, and the programme is progressing in accordance with the plans in the sense that subsequent prototypes are already being assembled/built; the static test airframe has also begun aerodynamic load and fatigue testing, while P0/GTU-0's two flights have already provided a substantial amount of take-off and in-flight data.

But they need to move beyond this preparatory phase ASAP and get the actual flight-test programme going with P1, P2 and P3/4/5/6 (the production-representative configuration). The schedule is already squeezed enough as it is, because TuAF needs these planes like yesterday yesterday...

 

[snne]

Latest update (C'mon TAI, let the damn thing fly already!)

Obviously, you can't just fly prototypes on a whim, and a project of this magnitude deserves every bit of attention, caution and risk aversion as humanly possible; but TA(I) seems to be moving at a snail's pace again before the first flight, which is starting to eat into their already ambitious timeline for deliveries in Q4 2028/Q1-2 2029 (even if they've built some schedule-risk-mitigation into it, such as pushing IWB certification completion to 2030).

FF of this post-CDR design is more of a ceremonial milestone at this point, and the programme is progressing in accordance with the plans in the sense that subsequent prototypes are already being assembled/built; the static test airframe has also begun aerodynamic load and fatigue testing, while P0/GTU-0's two flights have already provided a substantial amount of take-off and in-flight data.

But they need to move beyond this preparatory phase ASAP and get the actual flight-test programme going with P1, P2 and P3/4/5/6 (the production-representative configuration). The schedule is already squeezed enough as it is, because TuAF needs these planes like yesterday yesterday...

Couldn't agree more with this:

TAI CEO Dr. Demiroglu has been giving out new dates and at the same time trying to divert attention from delayed Kaan P1 first flight with small news about other stuff. .

“Kaan is an aircraft in which all major systems—with the exception of just two—have been developed domestically. Its landing gear and actuators—the components that drive the movement of control surfaces—are domestically produced. Its oxygen system, radar, and munitions are also domestic; in short, it is truly a domestic product. We are also continuing our efforts to ensure that its engine becomes domestically produced in the coming years. KAAN is our most challenging and technologically advanced platform, boasting a level of domestic content that rivals even our land vehicles. Ground operations are currently underway for the first test prototype, designated “DAP-1.” Whether in October or November, we hope to see Kaan take to the skies this year.”

Are we going to believe this?
He is the harbinger of deadline-delay . Not a single word he has uttered about Kaan P1 first flight has come true.
Second part, especially the last sentence is the biggest BS there is if you take Tusas’s past performance as norm. Seeing is believing. Put your money where your mouth is.
In Turkish:

Ayinesi iştir kişinin lafa bakılmaz

In his first detailed broadcast updates following his appointment, he stated that the P1 and P2 prototypes were expected to take flight by the end of 2025.
later date Shifts: The expected first flight timeline for the P1 was later adjusted to April or May 2026, then to May or June 2026, and eventually pushed toward late 2026 after it began ground taxi trials on July 31, 2026

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/mehmet-demiroglu-acikladi-kaan-hurjet-ve-hurkusta-son-durum-ne/

(Yasar/Defencehub)

 

[snne]

Obviously, you can't just fly prototypes on a whim, and a project of this magnitude deserves every bit of attention, caution and risk aversion as humanly possible; but TA(I) seems to be moving at a snail's pace again before the first flight, which is starting to eat into their already ambitious timeline for deliveries in Q4 2028/Q1-2 2029 (even if they've built some schedule-risk-mitigation into it, such as pushing IWB certification completion to 2030).

FF of this post-CDR design is more of a ceremonial milestone at this point, and the programme is progressing in accordance with the plans in the sense that subsequent prototypes are already being assembled/built; the static test airframe has also begun aerodynamic load and fatigue testing, while P0/GTU-0's two flights have already provided a substantial amount of take-off and in-flight data.

But they need to move beyond this preparatory phase ASAP and get the actual flight-test programme going with P1, P2 and P3/4/5/6 (the production-representative configuration). The schedule is already squeezed enough as it is, because TuAF needs these planes like yesterday yesterday...

Couldn't agree more with this:

Turns out they haven't even started high-speed taxi tests yet...

Kaan's ground tests are continuing on a 24-hour basis.

Slow taxi reached 40 knots, fast taxis are next.

If the results go as expected, we'll see Kaan in the air very soon.

We'll fly Kaan within this year.

—TA(I) GM Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu

Obviously they can't afford to make even the slightest mistake, but this bureaucratic development hellscape they're stuck in is eating up a sh!tload of the calendar they were given for flight testing, systems integration and maturation before the delivery...

 

[snne]

"In line with our plans, in early 2030, we will have our Kaan fighter jet take to the skies with our indigenous TF-35000 turbofan engine." — TA(I) GM/CEO Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu

 

[NMaude]

Obviously they can't afford to make even the slightest mistake, but this bureaucratic development hellscape they're stuck in is eating up a sh!tload of the calendar they were given for flight testing, systems integration and maturation before the delivery..

What is with all of this bureaucratic foot-dragging?

 

[snne]

There was a 75-day gap between P0's first and second flights. Assuming the high-speed taxi tests are completed quickly and without issues and P1 actually flies in November, applying a similar interval would leave you with ONE -- 1 -- flight test by the end of the year, despite the latest plan originally calling for a first flight in the summer...

In his first detailed broadcast updates following his appointment, he stated that the P1 and P2 prototypes were expected to take flight by the end of 2025.
later date Shifts: The expected first flight timeline for the P1 was later adjusted to April or May 2026, then to May or June 2026, and eventually pushed toward late 2026 after it began ground taxi trials on July 31, 2026

How the hell do you expect to deliver an urgently needed aircraft in Q4 2028/H1 '29 at this rate?

Say what you want about him, but while Temel Kotil (previous GM/CEO) also made plenty of promises (and missed his fair share of them!) -- he at least managed to hit the critical program milestones when it mattered.

What is with all of this bureaucratic foot-dragging?

It's probably a mix of bureaucratic foot-dragging and unexpected issues they've run into.

Regardless, that's literally their job -- making sure these things don't happen in the first place and actually delivering on the timelines they've committed to.

They've already flown P0 twice, and I obviously don't know what's still keeping P1 on the ground, but whatever it is should've been resolved after the P0 campaign... >flight-rated subcomponent integration, just like with GTU-0/P0 back in the day... (1:10-1:18 from the interview below )<

https://twitter.com/x/status/2105674560238452810

View: https://x.com/gdhdefence/status/2105674560238452810?s=20


OTOH, supply-chain problems in 2024/25 already pushed the program back another 6-8 months.

My God, TA never ceases to find new ways to prove the Air Force's projections right, lmao...

(from 2021)

---

I'm just saying the quiet part out loud here, even if I sound like some anon throwing a tantrum over an aircraft missing its promised first flight. But, a fact is a fact:

Getting a 5th-gen fighter into service ASAP is a national-security issue of the highest order at this point, given the mistakes of the past and the absolute hellscape surrounding Turkey.

They're damn lucky that at least two other LO-aircraft programs are progressing well enough against all odds to partially help cover for the slips on the TurAF and TAI National Combat Aircraft Division side -- even if people rarely get to serve their country quite as well as these people do...

 

[snne]

+++

P2 has left the FAL and is moving through the same ground-processing and pre-flight checks "right behind P1":

https://twitter.com/x/status/2105946555559686524

View: https://x.com/gooksel/status/2105946555559686524


As for the first flight: “perhaps this month, perhaps next month -- but still within this year”...