TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Deino said:
Since several changes were announced!
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Those are just uneducated speculations by people who don't know what they're talking about (of which there are plenty). If you intend to follow every step of the Kaan program, you should probably follow this thread.

There will of course be small changes, but you have to keep in mind that the GTU-0 demonstrator was built and assembled right around the time of the CDR Review.

Many of the critical subsystems you see posted on this page have been in development for a long time, in accordance with the specifications given to the developers, so there can't be any substantial changes anyway.
 
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Lacy said:
two side looking AESA radars
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This keeps getting confirmed by people from Turkish Aerospace, so they must be working on it - but I still have my doubts. Yes, the frontal section of the fuselage is huge, and a significant amount of electrical power is generated (2 × 120 kW), but I’m not sure the physics support it. I’m not convinced there’s enough space left for side-looking radar arrays, especially in addition to the electronics for the large nose radar, the IRST, and the EOTS.

1000050703.jpg

Additionally, we haven’t seen or heard any indication of this from Aselsan.

Integrating two side-looking radars on top of the aircraft's existing sensors would likely make it too expensive to procure in large numbers (i.e., the 250 planned aircraft for the TuAF)
 
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I believe he's referring to this;

TAI General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu:
"There are currently minor revisions to the external appearance, of course. The aircraft is being lightened. Because analyses, tests, and what we’ve learned lead us to iterations. These may not be very noticeable from the outside. The air intakes might be different. The aircraft’s dimensions will remain the same, but its weight will be different."
https://twitter.com/x/status/1917857035527278867
View: https://x.com/SavunmaTR/status/1917857035527278867

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IMO, the only thing that makes KAAN look odd are it's intakes. That seems to be getting worked on as per TAI GM.
 
Combat-Master said:
IMO, the only thing that makes KAAN look odd are it's intakes. That seems to be getting worked on as per TAI GM
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He said 'might.' Why are you all treating it as a certainty? His point was that there will be some differences depending on the test results, he didn’t specify which ones. This is how they all speak: always as ambiguous as possible. Haven’t you guys figured that out by now?
 
snne said:
He said 'might.' Why are you all treating it as a certainty? His point was that there will be some differences depending on the test results, he didn’t specify which ones. This is how they all speak: always as ambiguous as possible. Haven’t you guys figured that out by now?
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He said it two or three times now, that the intakes are getting worked on. That specific X post is not the only time he has said it, he said it with certainty in other public talks also. So, I'm fairly certain the intakes will have adjustments made to it.
 
Combat-Master said:
He said it two or three times now, that the intakes are getting worked on. That specific X post is not the only time he has said it, he said it with certainty in other public talks also. So, I'm fairly certain the intakes will have adjustments made to it.
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Again:
snne said:
He said 'might.' Why are you all treating it as a certainty? His point was that there will be some differences depending on the test results, he didn’t specify which ones. This is how they all speak: always as ambiguous as possible. Haven’t you guys figured that out by now?
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Don't care if he said it multiple times, since it is one of his go-to design features of this aircraft that he keeps mentioning. If I were someone less experienced, I wouldn't even pay mind to his words at all. They're all speaking as vaguely and ambiguously as possible and like to make big claims that have no ground.

Changing the intakes also means modifying the S-duct design (which also affects the internal design as a whole), which is very meticulously engineered and of utmost importance in a VLO aircraft. Small improvements are to be expected, but you should not jump to conclusions and expect a huge difference.

Don't heat this topic up again, guys.
 
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snne said:
This keeps getting confirmed by people from Turkish Aerospace, so they must be working on it - but I still have my doubts. Yes, the frontal section of the fuselage is huge, and a significant amount of electrical power is generated (2 × 120 kW), but I’m not sure the physics support it. I’m not convinced there’s enough space left for side-looking radar arrays, especially in addition to the electronics for the large nose radar, the IRST, and the EOTS.

View attachment 779720

Additionally, we haven’t seen or heard any indication of this from Aselsan.

Integrating two side-looking radars on top of the aircraft's existing sensors would likely make it too expensive to procure in large numbers (i.e., the 250 planned aircraft for the TuAF)
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TAI CEO has confirmed it in one of his recent interviews.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1935228296280903989
View: https://x.com/savtekdergi/status/1935228296280903989


And @Radonislav has said that the side arrays are on the cheeks on another forum.
 
:rolleyes::

snne said:
This keeps getting confirmed by people from Turkish Aerospace, so they must be working on it - but I still have my doubts. Yes, the frontal section of the fuselage is huge, and a significant amount of electrical power is generated (2 × 120 kW), but I’m not sure the physics support it. I’m not convinced there’s enough space left for side-looking radar arrays, especially in addition to the electronics for the large nose radar, the IRST, and the EOTS.
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On the matter of not having heard anything from Aselsan about this: it must be part of the Integrated RF System (BÜRFIS). Yet, even though we have physical prototypes of all components and have known about the existence of these programmes for quite some time, there's still no indication from Aselsan that side arrays are under development.

Integrating two side-looking radars on top of the aircraft's existing sensors would likely make it too expensive to procure in large numbers (i.e., the 250 planned aircraft for the TuAF)
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Null said:
US, Russia and Turkey love using a 200km reference for their double engine 5th gens. Does turkey use like a 0.5m2, 1m2, 3m2 RCS estimate for that 200km range?
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The PD is also an important factor. He uses the word 'seeing'; we don't know whether he means 'detecting' or 'tracking' by that. Moreover, with these range specifications, he's referring to the MURAD-100A here (F-16 Özgür), not the MURAD-600A of the Kaan's Integrated RF System.

the GMs of Turkish -SAN's (i.e., Turkish Aerospace, Aselsan, Roketsan, Havelsan, etc.) tend to dumb down their language for their audiences (in addition to giving such vague answers!)...
 
The side radars for Kaan has to be tile architecture based akin to the Murad-100 series of the F-16 and Akinci. It takes up relatively little space.

Although the side radars will have less range than the larger brick based nose radar, together with angular information from Karat and/or Toygun, it can focus a very narrow beam on targets to compensate for the lack of range in volume search. This way it can still track offset targets for missile guidance at long range, after handover from the more powerful nose radar.
 
Waterballoon said:
The side radars for Kaan has to be tile architecture based akin to the Murad-100 series of the F-16 and Akinci. It takes up relatively little space.

Although the side radars will have less range than the larger brick based nose radar, together with angular information from Karat and/or Toygun, it can focus a very narrow beam on targets to compensate for the lack of range in volume search. This way it can still track offset targets for missile guidance at long range, after handover from the more powerful nose radar.
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Narrow multi-beam jamming would be a game changer, especially in contested airspace. :)
 
red admiral said:
Might as remove all the stealth then

:rolleyes:
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All those defensive systems will increase the survivability of non-stealth platforms. A stealth base layer makes it even more effective.

I got another layer of survivability for you.

Put the stealth and defensive systems on a more cost-effective unmanned platform. No need to risk a human.

Such a system is coming within several years.
 
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I mean they did consider a DIRCM option for the F-35 a long long time ago, and supposedly they are coming up with idea concepts of laser systems that destroy incoming missiles for F-35s. Even the US will compromise a little stealth if it means a great tradeoff for survivability.
 
Northrop offered an internally funded system called ThNDR, which is low observable and liquid-cooled (to meet heat signature requirement) and compact enough to fit inside f-35 spacing next the the DAS system. DAS identify the particular missile threat which then passes on to ThNDR to optimize the characteristics of the laser projection specifically tailored to the missile threat.
 
Combat-Master said:
1754220854846.png
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Aselsan has since changed its design to a bubble sphere.

1754227076762.png 1754227534598.png
 
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snne said:
That is the Yildirim-100 (developed for non-stealth aircraft of any kind); it's just there as a template... Aselsan often uses images of downgraded equivalents as stand-ins for products that haven’t been formally revealed yet.

yildirim_100_brsr_en.jpg
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Btw Yıldırım-100 is optimized for Helicopters. So less power output
 
A patent TAI filed; I believe it may be related to KAAN development, corresponds with changes to the inlet that the GM of TAI stated

Current Inlet on Prototype 0


WO2025144213A1 - An air discharge system - Google Patents

The present invention relates to at least one air inlet (2) in supersonic aircraft, a ramp region (3) that is located at the entrance of the air inlet (2), is the region in contact with the air and has a narrowing form, a throat region (4) that is located in the air inlet (2) after the ramp...
patents.google.com
 

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Combat-Master said:
A patent TAI filed; I believe it may be related to KAAN development, corresponds with changes to the inlet that the GM of TAI stated
View attachment 780993
Current Inlet on Prototype 0
View attachment 780994

WO2025144213A1 - An air discharge system - Google Patents

The present invention relates to at least one air inlet (2) in supersonic aircraft, a ramp region (3) that is located at the entrance of the air inlet (2), is the region in contact with the air and has a narrowing form, a throat region (4) that is located in the air inlet (2) after the ramp...
patents.google.com
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Tbh they could have used a better illustration
 
Indonesia Signs Strategic Partnership for KAAN Fifth-Generation Fighter Jets

The Indonesian Ministry of Defense (KEMHAN RI) has formalized a strategic agreement with Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAŞ) for the procurement of up to 48 KAAN fifth-generation fighter jets.

This historic agreement not only covers the acquisition of low-observable, multi-role fighter aircraft for the Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU), but also provides a complete ecosystem encompassing training, technical support, and long-term maintenance in-house.

The KAAN fighter jet is designed as a high-performance, all-weather, twin-engine air superiority aircraft. With high maneuverability, an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, and an internal weapons bay to maintain a stealth profile, the KAAN is part of a sophisticated fifth-generation fighter aircraft capable of handling modern air scenarios.

The 48 KAANs will be produced in a special "Indonesian Variant" configuration with Turkish-made engines.

Indonesia will also build and operate a local flight simulator to support training and system integration.

This package includes comprehensive training for pilots, technicians, and ground crew, as well as long-term after-sales service, technical engineering support, and integrated logistics.

Two national defense industry entities, PT Republik Aero Dirgantara (PT RAD) and PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI), have been appointed as the main partners in the domestic implementation of this program.

PT RAD: National Infrastructure, Investment, & Training As a subsidiary of Republikorp, PT RAD will be responsible for:

- Construction of a primary MRO (Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul) facility for KAAN fighter jets in Indonesia.
- Operation of a training center and simulator to support the readiness of Indonesian Air Force personnel.
- Increasing independent and sustainable domestic support capacity.

“As the appointed PT, we are ready to be the main bridge for KAAN technology transfer to Indonesia. This is a strategic momentum to bring manufacturing capabilities and increase independent domestic support capacity,” said Norman Joesoef, Chairman of Republikorp.

PTDI, as a national strategic State-Owned Enterprise (BUMN), plays a crucial role in:

- Final assembly of some KAAN units at PTDI facilities.
- Engineering collaboration and technology sharing with TUSAŞ.
- Technical readiness and industrial maintenance, to strengthen national logistics support.

With the technological leadership of TUSAŞ as OEM and design authority, and investment and industrial contributions from PT RAD and PTDI, Indonesia is moving forward as a nation capable of independently developing and maintaining advanced air defense systems.

This collaborative structure reflects a major transformation in Indonesia's defense industry—from a purchasing nation to a developer and owner of future strategic air defense capabilities.

REPUBLIKORP

REPUBLIKORP drives the future of defense through technological innovation, international cooperation, and the comprehensive development of tailor-made, military-grade systems. We adapt to complex security missions and evolving challenges, delivering advanced solutions to protect our national...
www.republikorp.com www.republikorp.com
 
Ozair said:
Should I interpret that as Turkish made F110s or will Indonesia wait for deliveries until the Kaam is powered by the Turkish designed and manufactured engine?
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Delivery in 10 years so maybe we'll wait for TF35000
 
Combat-Master said:
""The assembly of over 2000 domestic and national parts continues at full speed in our TUSAŞ facilities. We examined the production and assembly activities of our second prototype, which will make its first flight at the end of 2025.""
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"The first of the next two prototypes of Turkey’s Kaan indigenous combat aircraft has moved into the system integration phase ahead of plans to fly in spring 2026...

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) officials said the two prototypes are in an advanced state of structural assembly and work is underway on system integration in the company’s Kaan final assembly line here in Ankara. A ground test vehicle also is in production....

The Turkish Air Force wants the 34-metric-ton fighter to replace its large fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s in the coming years, with the first batch of around 20 aircraft reaching Turkish Air Force service in 2029. These Blk. 10 aircraft will have a limited operational envelope that will be expanded as testing progresses. TAI’s Ankara factory will be able to output eight aircraft per year, but officials are now mulling the scale of the facilities that will be required to achieve full-rate production."

https://aviationweek.com/defense/ai...kaan-prototype-moves-system-integration-phase
 
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During an interview at Teknofest, Mehmet Bey provides an update on the KAAN aircraft project, specifically addressing the development status of its prototypes and addressing public expectations for a third flight of the initial prototype, referred to as P0. Below is a detailed summary of the key points from the transcript:
  1. Primary Focus on P1 Prototype:
    • The team is prioritizing the development of the P1 prototype, described as the "real" prototype intended for continuous test flights. This prototype is in an advanced stage of development, with Mehmet Bey stating that it has "taken shape" ("etek kemiğe büründü").
    • Most systems for P1 are expected to be completed by the end of the year. Following this, ground tests will commence, including vibration and resonance tests, to ensure readiness for flight.
    • The first flight of P1 is targeted for April, and the team is fully committed to meeting this deadline without deviation. Mehmet Bey emphasizes that this is the primary goal, and no steps are being taken that would jeopardize this timeline.
  2. Public Expectation for a Third Flight of P0:
    • There is public interest in a potential third flight of the earlier P0 prototype. Mehmet Bey acknowledges this, noting that the team is evaluating whether conducting this flight would provide valuable data ("Yapsak ne öğreniriz?").
    • However, this is a secondary consideration, as the team’s primary focus remains on preparing P1 for its first flight. Any decision to conduct a third P0 flight would be supplementary and not a priority.
  3. Multiple Prototypes in Development:
    • The project is advancing multiple prototypes simultaneously, with slight staggering in their timelines:
      • Static Aircraft: A dedicated static aircraft for ground testing is being developed alongside P1. This aircraft will undergo tests by the end of the year to validate structural integrity and other parameters before P1’s flight.
      • P1 Prototype: As mentioned, P1 is the primary focus, with its first flight scheduled for April.
      • P2 Prototype: The second prototype, P2, is planned to follow closely, with a target flight in July. This indicates a rapid development pace for subsequent prototypes.
    • Mehmet Bey highlights that these prototypes are being developed in parallel to ensure the project progresses efficiently.
  4. Differences Between P0 and P1/P2 Prototypes:
    • External Differences: Visually, the differences between P0 and P1 (and subsequent prototypes) are subtle and likely only noticeable to experts ("trained eye"). For instance, minor variations may exist in components like air intakes, but these are not significant to the untrained observer.
    • Internal Differences: The primary distinctions lie in the internal design and systems. P0 was developed with a focus on basic flight systems to validate initial flight capabilities. In contrast, P1 and later prototypes are designed with final mission configurations in mind. This includes the integration and placement of critical systems for operational roles, with designs, tests, and analyses tailored to these requirements.
    • Mehmet Bey notes that P1’s internal architecture has been specifically arranged to accommodate these final systems, marking a significant evolution from P0’s simpler configuration.
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KAAN x Italy Cooperation

TUSAŞ and Italian OMA (Officine Meccaniche Aeronautiche) signed an MoU for KAAN, Türkiye’s 5th-gen fighter.

Key points:
• OMA will transfer production of certified hydraulic & landing gear systems to Türkiye.
• Strengthens KAAN’s European industrial footprint.
• Adds credibility not just a national program, but one already pulling in international partners.
• Expands the ecosystem around KAAN, step by step.

KAAN is moving fast from prototype to a global-ready fighter. Partnerships like these show how it’s building the backbone of a true next-generation platform.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1970876709000937815
View: https://x.com/er_tugay_/status/1970876709000937815
 

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