TAI HURJET

[Christmas Day dumplings]

This ain't the first armed aircraft to ever come out of Turkey bruh, what are you on about XD

Imagine being arrogant enough to think you've found a design flaw that somehow escaped all those experienced project managers, flight-test engineers, systems engineers, certification teams, aerodynamicists, structural analysts, test pilots, and technicians actually working on the aircraft...

Also, thank you. I typed so much without actually wanting to curse. You expressed some of what I've been thinking, though not bluntly enough.
From the Hurjet's first flight to the end of last year, it's been 2 years and 9 months, and only two aircraft have completed 400 test flights. That shows the guys you mentioned are all slacking off.

 

[snne]

Also, thank you. I typed so much without actually wanting to curse. You expressed some of what I've been thinking, though not bluntly enough.
From the Hurjet's first flight to the end of last year, it's been 2 years and 9 months, and only two aircraft have completed 400 test flights. That shows the guys you mentioned are all slacking off.

Lmfao.

Bruh really thinks he's the smartest person alive. TurAF refused to receive a competitive turboprop trainer for close to a decade simply because they weren't the ones defining its requirements; what makes you think not only them, but also the Spanish Air Force, would commit to an aircraft that, according to you, is terribly designed and riddled with flaws?

What makes you think an institution like TAI, with decades of experience in some of the world's leading military and civilian aviation programs, over 40 years of indigenous aircraft development, and many thousands of experienced engineers, would make mistakes that even an arrogant peanut-brain like you could identify from a couple of photos?

Bro literally came to this conclusion from seeing two external cameras. XD You see this graphic below? It illustrates only a portion of the payloads Turkey has developed, integrated and certified for the F-16 alone, which is a foreign design procured under specific FMS conditions btw...

But sure, two camera housings were all it took for you to spot flaws that somehow escaped the Turkish Air Force, the Spanish Air Force, TAI, Airbus, Akaer, and the thousands of engineers across dozens of companies (Aselsan, SAGE, Roketsan, Havelsan, etc.) working on the program...

What'd you think? That it'll remain airborne for more than 24 hours like a MALE UAV on each sortie? These tests are conducted under very specific conditions to test specific things; you thought they'd get the jet in the air whenever they felt like it?

Read all 10 pages of the thread ffs. Just because there had been roughly 400 test sorties with only two prototypes over a two-year period doesn't mean the aircraft has flown for only 400 hours.

Go look at the T-7's test schedule, ffs. Go look at how many flight hours the combined KF-21 prototype fleet (6+2 aircraft) has accumulated...

 

[Christmas Day dumplings]

Read all 10 pages of the thread ffs. Just because there had been roughly 400 test sorties with only two prototypes over a two-year period doesn't mean the aircraft has flown for only 400 hours.

If I remember correctly, at 340 sorties, it was only 260 hours.

S1: Just because the Hurjet has only built two aircraft does not mean it only needs to complete one-third of the KF-21's flight verification program. If you need to fly 2,000 sorties for verification, you still have to fly 2,000 sorties.

PS2: The KF-21's flight control system does not require flight test verification — it is not part of the flight test subjects. But the Hurjet does require it.

 

[snne]

ROFL XD

thank you for confirming my suspicions about you. At this point, I don't even need to take you seriously or address your points anymore, because you've made it abundantly clear that you're not here for an actual discussion.

I've already given you a serious response. Instead of addressing any of it, you've chosen to act like a arrogant clown and never ever support your claims with actual proof. That tells me everything *we need to know...

Keep embarrassing yourself further if you want, but it's obvious to everyone reading this thread that you're not interested in discussing aircraft development, flight testing, or anything remotely technical. You're just here to troll, waste everyone's time, and dodge arguments you can't answer.

@Jemiba

 

[Scott Kenny]

Successor & predecessor in formation...

Oh my. I just found the paint scheme to paint a T-38 in!

 

[Canardzz]

Two cameras can prove that the Hurjet's flight validation test had not been completed when the photos were taken.
The way the cameras are installed further proves that the need for this flight validation test was not known at the design stage, hence no dedicated pod mounting position was reserved, nor was a dedicated camera pod designed.

Without another country helping to complete the KF21 the way the US helped South Korea, there are countless similar engineering details that would need to be resolved through manpower, time, and money.

Hurjet should not merely complete its own test flights; it should help Turkey’s defense industry establish a complete flight validation system, thereby assisting the development of KAAN. However, the current number of Hurjet test flights and flight hours make it impossible to achieve this — KAAN will have to accomplish these things on its own.

ps：I don’t know how thick these manuals are, but currently no more than five countries can independently complete them.
View attachment 814793
View attachment 814794

You're saying this based on two FTI's pointing at... pylons? Dude..

 

[snne]

You're saying this based on two FTI's pointing at... pylons? Dude..

Never mind him; he's probably that Korean moron from Twitter who obsessively smears anything Turkish and has now wandered in here desperately looking for attention with braindead arguments...

 

[Combat-Master]

Some pics Hurjet with Turkish Stars NF-5 Freedom Fighter

https://twitter.com/x/status/2065421301913723246

View: https://x.com/TUSAS_TR/status/2065421301913723246?s=20


Clip-

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQpSGaanNw

 

[Combat-Master]

TUSAŞ General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu: "HÜRJET is currently going very well. Our two prototypes have almost reached 500 flight hours. Four more prototypes are coming, and we will see their flights this year. Similarly, we are working on the 'Light Attack' and 'Naval Forces variant, again single-engine' configurations."

https://twitter.com/x/status/2079636177938977157

View: https://x.com/SanayiSavunmaTR/status/2079636177938977157?s=20

 

[snne]

 

[gugugagayigit]

Can somebody who has a pdf copy of the gökvatan magazine number 145 upload it here. It has been deleted from the tusaş website along with its post on linkedin
(i will forward this to the kaan thread if nobody sees it)

 

[Combat-Master]

It's gone now

 

[gugugagayigit]

it's still there for me? https://www.tusas.com/content/files/uploads/12016/Sayı_145_TR_web.pdf

Thank you. I should have said unlisted
https://www.tusas.com/medya-merkezi/Dergi?s=1&d=2026

 

[Combat-Master]

TUSAŞ General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu;
"We started working on the naval version of HÜRJET just a short while ago. It's still too early to define exactly what the aircraft will look like. Operating conditions at sea are much more challenging compared to land operations, and the aircraft will also need a more powerful engine."

https://twitter.com/x/status/2090728836006650341

View: https://x.com/SavunmaTR/status/2090728836006650341?s=20


The fact that he's stating that they don't know what the aircraft will look like, to me sounds like they may be looking at a dual engine Hurjet? A single more powerful engine doesn't seem reasonable for naval operations, perhaps 2x TEI TF10k ?

 

[Geo]

A single more powerful engine doesn't seem reasonable for naval operations, perhaps 2x TEI TF10k ?

Designing a completely new aircraft just to gain an extra 10 kN of total thrust makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Combat-Master]

Designing a completely new aircraft just to gain an extra 10 kN of total thrust makes absolutely no sense.

Resilience factor for naval operations + domestic engine makes sense to me, plus they've already done early studies on dual engine Hurjet - doesn't sound too farfetched to me

 

[Ainen]

Resilience factor for naval operations + domestic engine makes sense to me, plus they've already done early studies on dual engine Hurjet - doesn't sound too farfetched to me

But starting a non-LO fighter aircraft later than TEDBF even is certainly unusual...

 

[snne]

TA(I) CEO:

Let me say, in the coming weeks, the 3rd prototype will be flying. Following that, the 4th and 5th prototypes will arrive. We plan to have at least two of them flying by the end of this year; we're even hoping that the 5th prototype will fly as well. The second prototype of the HÜRJET has been configured as an armed version. Those following it will join our skies in both training and armed versions.

 

[Combat-Master]

TAI Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu ;
“Our work on this issue has actually been continuing for quite some time. It is becoming clearer now. As our aircraft carrier takes shape, the requirements will also become clearer. This is a long-term project. I can already say that it will be a completely different platform, distinct from HÜRJET. You will see that it will be different from HÜRJET, because the requirements are different.”

https://bigpara.hurriyet.com.tr/hab...ve-hurjette-testler-yogunlasacak_ID102236609/

Before he would mention the carrier based aircraft as being a 'naval version of Hurjet', now the language he uses is - 'completely different platform distinct from Hurjet'. Looking forward to some renders, might have to open up a new thread if it the aircraft differs significantly

 

[Waterballoon]

TAI Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu ;
“Our work on this issue has actually been continuing for quite some time. It is becoming clearer now. As our aircraft carrier takes shape, the requirements will also become clearer. This is a long-term project. I can already say that it will be a completely different platform, distinct from HÜRJET. You will see that it will be different from HÜRJET, because the requirements are different.”

https://bigpara.hurriyet.com.tr/hab...ve-hurjette-testler-yogunlasacak_ID102236609/

Before he would mention the carrier based aircraft as being a 'naval version of Hurjet', now the language he uses is - 'completely different platform distinct from Hurjet'. Looking forward to some renders, might have to open up a new thread if it the aircraft differs significantly

Küçük carrier capable Kaan with single TF35K loading?

 

[Geo]

You really are that desperate to prove your assumption, huh?

You know they slip up all the time when a reporter shoves a microphone in their faces. What they've consistently said in calmer settings when they have time to collect their thoughts, combined with how similar designs have evolved when adapted to the same requirements, points towards a Hürjet with more robust landing gear, a tailhook, probably folding wings, and a single F414 replacing the base variant's F404. That's it.

The naval variant is still in the very early stages of development, and they're intentionally being vague in front of audiences to manage expectations.

They're not going to design an entirely new jet when they can neither spare the attention away from frankly intense serial production schedules and Kaan, nor do they have the resources to spare for it.

You may have my counterarguments deleted by the mods, but enough is enough -- be sensible. Don't force your assumption on us as a fact and spam the thread into pollution; if you really believe in it, just wait it out and see what happens.

Your argument is perfectly logical, and if we were to call the aircraft a "naval Hurjet", I would see it the same way you do.
On the other hand the question arises as to how sustainable such a solution is, if Turkey with the MUGEM and TF-2000 is clearly heading into blue waters, where a significantly more powerful platform will be needed in terms of speed, range, ceiling, weapons load and sensor capabilities.

 

[snne]

Your argument is perfectly logical, and if we were to call the aircraft a "naval Hurjet", I would see it the same way you do.
On the other hand the question arises as to how sustainable such a solution is, if Turkey with the MUGEM and TF-2000 is clearly heading into blue waters, where a significantly more powerful platform will be needed in terms of speed, range, ceiling, weapons load and sensor capabilities.

By sustainable -- do you mean the sustainability of carrier ops, or the Hürjet as a naval aircraft? (I assume the latter, but the sustainability of carrier ops for a newcomer is in fact a valid criticism!)

After marinization, with larger folding wings, a tailhook and an F414, Hürjet as a naval aircraft would actually be much more sustainable than a hypothetical navalized Kaan.

It'd be outclassed from the get-go against more capable powers, and it wouldn't be able to carry as heavy a payload, but that's precisely why the Navy is leaning into network-centricity for its future fixed-wing carrier aviation ambitions, using Anka-3 and Kızılelma to augment the Hürjet. And the Turkish Navy isn't going to take on those more capable powers alone without the Air Force.

If that were ever to become reality, you might as well develop an electromagnetic catapult, navalize the Kaan, and launch that off the deck instead. It would become available in roughly the same timeframe, you wouldn't have to develop yet another entirely new aircraft, and you'd at least end up with a future-proof and highly capable jet on your carrier deck.

Instead of operating two or three different aircraft types (Hürjet + Anka-3 + Kizilelma) just to partially replicate what the Kaan could do, you could cut that down to two; or perhaps even one with the Kaan.

>This would even enable fixed wing carrier-borne AEW operations instead of rotary wing AEW, assuming the US would even consider selling E-2Ds to Turkey (admittedly calling it pretty unlikely would be an understatement but you never know!).<

Again, we're all repeating ourselves, but It all comes down to available resources, which certainly are finite in Turkey's case. The knowledge base as well as industry is obviously there; but allocating not just the funds but also the manpower for mere 50-60 naval fighters, as well as an AEW-platform (the plane, not the radar) is not enough to justify all of this. There's also the fact that there are tons of other programs with higher priorities.

Aselsan is already officially developing an AEW radar for large unmanned aircraft that would also be an ideal fit for such an aircraft. The issue lies in developing the platform itself, since neither China nor the US would ever provide a carrier-capable transport aircraft as a basis. As said, Turkey can certainly pull it off, but there are tons of other projects that could make far better use of the finite resources that would otherwise be tied up in projects like these.

 

[Canardzz]

The TAI HÜRJET configuration intended for delivery to the Turkish Air Force has successfully completed its maiden flight.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2093982378599330154

View: https://x.com/avionot/status/2093982378599330154?s=20

 

[Combat-Master]

Ventral fins deleted?

 

[Canardzz]

Ventral fins deleted?

Affirm

 

[Combat-Master]

Turkish Aerospace Industries’ turboprop ( Hürkuş-II ) and turbofan trainer aircraft advancing Turkey’s national trainer aircraft programme.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhpI0Ga3mfg

Also noticed, armed variant of Hurjet has had it's nose-mounted pitot tube removed;

 

[Nart]

We met in Istanbul with the two senior executives at GE Aerospace responsible for Türkiye and the countries in the region. Kement Akdemir, the manufacturer’s Director of Defense & Systems, Regional Strategy and Business Development, responsible for its military engines, and Orkun Tuncer, General Manager of Sales responsible for 27 countries in the civil engine business, answered our questions.
...

“For military projects, government approval is required. It is granted within a certain framework. The country, end user, and platform are defined. For HÜRJET, the application specified training and the Turkish Air Force. A new application is being made for a new user. The same process is underway for Spain.

We want to be part of the project concerning the Naval Forces. With the permission granted by the US government, we have started discussions regarding the naval version of Hürjet,” he said.

TAI wants to up-engine Hürjet. The F404 will be used on the training and attack variants. For the naval version -- that is, the aircraft intended to operate aboard MUGEM -- it wants the F414.

https://tolgaozbek.com/savunma/kaan-icin-f110-hurjet-icin-f404-motorlari-ne-zaman-teslim-edilecek/

GE Aerospace’in Türkiye ve bölge ülkelerine bakan iki tepe yöneticisi ile İstanbul’da bir araya geldik. İmalatçının askeri motorlarına bakan, Savunma & Sistemler, Bölgesel Strateji ve İş Geliştirme Direktörü Kement Akdemir ile sivil motorda 27 ülkede sorumlu Satış Genel Müdürü olan Orkun Tuncer sorularımızı yanıtladı.
...
Askeri projede hükümet izni verilir. Belli bir çerçeve çizilerek verilir. Hangi ülke, hangi son kullanıcı ve platform tanımlanır. HÜRJET için başvuruda eğitim ve Türk Hava Kuvvetleri dendi. Yeni bir kullanıcı için tekrar bir başvuru yapılıyor. İspanya için de benzer süreç işliyor.

Deniz Kuvvetleri ile ilgili bir parçası olmak istiyoruz. ABD hükümetinin verdiği izin ile HÜRJET’in deniz modeli için görüşmelere başladık” dedi.

TUSAŞ, HÜRJET’Te motoru büyütmek istiyor. Eğitim ve taarruz modelinde F404 kullanılacak. Deniz versiyonu için yani MUGEM’de görev yapacak uçak için F414 istiyor.

https://tolgaozbek.com/savunma/kaan-icin-f110-hurjet-icin-f404-motorlari-ne-zaman-teslim-edilecek/

 

[gugugagayigit]

https://lnkd.in/p/d_7rZQHh

Hürjet P2 with The Commander of The TurAF aboard achieved a radar lock on Hürjet P1 using Aselsan MURAD