South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.

Hello everyone! Hope you are well! Does anyone have information on the FCS used on the Olifant MK1B optimum?
 
estian12 said:
Hello everyone! Hope you are well! Does anyone have information on the FCS used on the Olifant MK1B optimum?
Click to expand...
I've posted some info/brochures of some of our FCS in the past (you'll need to peruse through this thread), however I'm really not sure if one of them applies to the MK1B Optimum.. Unfortunately my inside contact at the SA school of Armour is no longer there, so I cannot follow up with that for you..
 
Graugrun said:
estian12 said:
Hello everyone! Hope you are well! Does anyone have information on the FCS used on the Olifant MK1B optimum?
Click to expand...
I've posted some info/brochures of some of our FCS in the past (you'll need to peruse through this thread), however I'm really not sure if one of them applies to the MK1B Optimum.. Unfortunately my inside contact at the SA school of Armour is no longer there, so I cannot follow up with that for you..
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Thank you for your speedy reply! I really appreciate it
 
SAMIL development history
Dear all, although the Magirus-Deutz-style trucks SAMIL, SAMAG and SAKOM are well known, does anybody have the development history available? Several truck brands were tested, but when did MD turn up, where there any evaluations, and when did any decision for what reasons turn up in favor of the MD? How did theproduction take place, components or ckd......
Any compendium/info on any book that gives answers etc. available?
Any info is much appreciated!
Best regards Peter
 
I am pretty sure that I managed to find the below picture of a Ratel firing ZT3 somewhere on this forum, but now can't seem to find the original post. I can't make out the name in the lower right-hand corner enough to decypher it, but looks like "Eddie Steyn" or something...do any of you knowledgeable folk know who this picture belongs to/has taken it?
TIA b20ly0r61ln11.jpg
 
kaiserbill said:
Another vehicle that has come to my attention recently is this one, called the Addax.

You'll see that it is a AC-200 6x6 APC, as mentioned in this thread on page 9 reply 134, albeit it has a different rear hull (earlier prototype?) and rather obvious different steering setup.
This project saw a prototype taken in hand by Ermetek and Armscor and modified to have individual steering on 3 axles, so that any or all of the 3 could be steered.
If I recall correctly, there were computer controlled hydraulic steering aspects to this programme.
The project demonstrated that rear axle steering improved handling, reduced tyre wear, and improved low speed manoeuvring.
There was also a project, that involved a modified Landrover, Ratel and a modified G-6, that dealt with various other advanced suspension components, including semi-active hydro-pneumatic springs combined with semi-active dampers.
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I worked on Addax power pack from 1984 - 1987
 
Hi Jblom.
Can you tell us anything about the vehicle, power pack or other things?
Was the project geared toward a specific requirement for the vehicle, or to be used as a testbed only?
What power pack was used?
 
Janes IDR report from 09-1992 covering South African help/expertise given to Rheinmetall (Germany) in terms of being able to successfully develop a mine resistant vehicle. I don't know what happened to said vehicle, perhaps someone with more insight on that can enlighten us further..
 

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Graugrun said:
Janes IDR report from 09-1992 covering South African help/expertise given to Rheinmetall (Germany) in terms of being able to successfully develop a mine resistant vehicle. I don't know what happened to said vehicle, perhaps someone with more insight on that can enlighten us further..
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www.army-technology.com

Gefas Protected Vehicle System and Components

The Gefas (Geschütztes Fahrzeug System) protected vehicle system is a family of protected vehicles developed by Rheinmetall Landsysteme GmbH and a group of industrial partners. The vehicle has a high level of protection for a vehicle of its weight class, the 4×4 version weighing 17,500kg. The...
www.army-technology.com www.army-technology.com
 
I have been researching SA's nuclear weapons program and have some questions on delivery concepts. I had thought that the Buccaneers were just an interim delivery platform until a mobile Jericho/RSA could be developed. The Buccaneer was very outdated by the 80s. I was under the impression the Jericho/RSA was top priority after they managed to make viable weapons but I have never found much in the way of infrastructure to deploy IRBMs. It seems the plan was for them to be mobile on the G6 resupply vehicle but where/how would they be deployed? Would they have built garages much like the SS-20? Could it be that a silo basing method was developed and it was further along than the TEL development but destroyed? Based on the preserved RSA images, it did have a ground launched EL. Was it just going to be deployed openly like the Soviet SS-4 or SS-5s?

78_big.jpg
SS-5 Skean on alert.
 
The Buccaneers were definitely not in it for the long haul. Too few, ageing airframes.
There was mention of an avionics upgrade, using the Cheetah C radar, to keep the small fleet viable as a "silver bullet" until Carver arrived.
On Carver, as explained, the move to a larger twin engined configuration was driven by a long range strike capability.
And I suspect nuclear delivery was an important part of that.
It was stated it had to be a multi-role platform replacing not only the Mirage and Cheetah fighters, but also the Buccaneers and Canberra's.

I'm not sure anyone knows whether the TEL vehicle was based on the G-6 or Beestrok.
It was an 8x8, and those were 6x6.
The TEL vehicles, developed at the "Spes B" facility, are one of the great and enduring mysteries...both their design, and what happened to them eventually.

From what has been garnered, the MRBM (RSA 1, 2, and 3) force was to be both mobile (TEL) and silo based.
I suspect the silo based would have been initially the MRBM, but centered eventually on the ICBM (RSA-4).

South Africa is a large country (roughly in the ballpark area size of France, Germany, and Spain combined) so a mobile force was I think a given.
 
kaiserbill said:
The Buccaneers were definitely not in it for the long haul. Too few, ageing airframes.
There was mention of an avionics upgrade, using the Cheetah C radar, to keep the small fleet viable as a "silver bullet" until Carver arrived.
On Carver, as explained, the move to a larger twin engined configuration was driven by a long range strike capability.
And I suspect nuclear delivery was an important part of that.
It was stated it had to be a multi-role platform replacing not only the Mirage and Cheetah fighters, but also the Buccaneers and Canberra's.

I'm not sure anyone knows whether the TEL vehicle was based on the G-6 or Beestrok.
It was an 8x8, and those were 6x6.
The TEL vehicles, developed at the "Spes B" facility, are one of the great and enduring mysteries...both their design, and what happened to them eventually.

From what has been garnered, the MRBM (RSA 1, 2, and 3) force was to be both mobile (TEL) and silo based.
I suspect the silo based would have been initially the MRBM, but centered eventually on the ICBM (RSA-4).

South Africa is a large country (roughly in the ballpark area size of France, Germany, and Spain combined) so a mobile force was I think a given.
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Thanks for the very detailed post. I have a couple of books (Die Bomb and such) and for the life of me I could not remember the "Spes B" buildings. I actually got interested in the history of SA's nuclear program through a "brochure" on the Buccaneer that I saw when I was 12. In my early days of internet sleuthing, I had seen the images of large bomb casings in an empty bunker but never understood how the buccaneer could carry that. Slowly more and more information has come out.

In terms of silo basing, I remember seeing a concept art of three SS-4 style domed silos out in the Veldt built inside a couple of hills (not much separation in the art but I assume that's for ease of drawing). Have never found it again. The TEL I never heard about till getting the aforementioned books last year.
silo-r-12-image01-s.jpg

I had actually never heard of the Carver program till your post. Very interesting project.


The Drive article on the Buccaneers
 

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will add my 5c.

Saw the TEL at Lohatla in 1990, thought it was a bridge layer or some other Tiffy hair brained scheme and paid no attention to it at the time but remember it well. It looked very similar to Pierres one in VEG mag which was a 8 x 8 and low profile cab.

Ran into someone once in Sydney who's dad was a civil engineer and he told me that his dad worked on missile Silos at Langabanweg AFB in the early 80s.

RSA 4 would have has a silo strategy and maybe not as isolated as one would have though. location irrelevant if it had the range
 
panzerskool said:
will add my 5c.

Saw the TEL at Lohatla in 1990, thought it was a bridge layer or some other Tiffy hair brained scheme and paid no attention to it at the time but remember it well. It looked very similar to Pierres one in VEG mag which was a 8 x 8 and low profile cab.

Ran into someone once in Sydney who's dad was a civil engineer and he told me that his dad worked on missile Silos at Langabanweg AFB in the early 80s.

RSA 4 would have has a silo strategy and maybe not as isolated as one would have though. location irrelevant if it had the range
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This just got interesting. I spent a while looking at satellite images for any signs of former earth works but have not caught anything yet. Do you know how far along it got? Early 80s was full bore in terms of funding and development it seems. Missiles and Hammerknop glide bomb on the table. What confounds me is that some texts state that primary deterrence was given by a shaft test followed by a above ground (both in Kalahari) to get US/USSR involved. Others stated that while the shaft was an option the Hammerknop/Buccaneer was primary "kinetic" deterrence. Others state missiles were highly sought after but around 87-88 budget reduction made Buccaneer/shaft the only means (with continuing research on implosion). That said it seems like all were worked on to a great extent.
Chronology of SA Nuclear activities
 
A couple of (old) advertisement videos showcasing LIW / Denel artillery systems:

G5:

G5 Coastal Artillery System:

155mm ERFB Ammunition:

G6:

Experimental G6 Burst Loader (automatic loader for projectiles and propellant charges) (BTW: at 0:39 the video says "Losvoor", so it probably shows an early demonstator):

G6-52 (newer video):
 
Regarding Project Hoefyster, from back on October 17th:
www.defenceweb.co.za

Hoefyster’s future in the hands of control board and steering committee - defenceWeb

Next in line for the seemingly never-ending saga that is the SA Army’s new infantry combat vehicle (ICV) to replace the ageing Ratel is a Department of Defence (DoD) project control board (PCB) which will, apparently, decide whether or not Project Hoefyster gets a red or green light. This came...
www.defenceweb.co.za www.defenceweb.co.za
 
Hello guys, does anyone have more info on the Olifant MK1B optimum, aside from what is already posted on this page?
 
Armor Museum in Bloemfontein, sorry for the small pics
 

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Good to see the Optimal under cover.
It also looks like they have put the various Olifant tanks and TTD together.
It would make an interesting photo as a comparison regarding size, like the last photo.
The Optimal is big.
 
Does any one have photos or drawings of Oliphant ammo stowage?
I am specifically interested in claims that Oliphant stowed ammo in its turret bustle al. M1 Abrams.
 
cptblackjack said:
sa_bushwar said:
Abraham Gubler said:
Herman said:
I did see several interesting vehicles inside the camp however, amongst them the Brazilian Urutu APC that was also trialled during the development of the Ratel.
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I thought the Brazilians even under their Military Dictatorship were quite anti RSA/Apartheid. Maybe it could have been an Urutu captured from Angola or Mozambique? Lusophone connection and all that.
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Here is the Urutu in question. From its general pristine condition - no bundu bashing - or battle damage, I assume it was specifically acquired for the Ratel trials. From where and through which channels
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Where was this taken exactly?
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The Urutu was ordered specifically for the Ratel trials. It came directly from the Brazilian factory and it was even accompanied by a factory driver.
 

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