During the 1970"s the SADF acquired a number of US made 155mm Longtom guns. Of WWII vintage, these were callled the G3 in the SADF. Together with a number of Soltam 155mm G4's, these guns were used to develop gun drills, doctrine and logistics for the indigenous G5 howitzer under development. The G4's also served as a stopgap till the G5 came into operation and was also used operationally. It is understood that the G3 was not intended to be deployed operationally. The (G3's??? and) G4's were obtained through the defence co-operation with Israel during the period of economic and military sanctions against SA. The photo shows a G3 being readied for firing on the Genl de la Rey artillery range outside Potchefstroom. in the distrance the antenna of a Cymbeline mortar locating radar can be seen.
 

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Thanks for the interesting input sa_bushwar - I understand that we also got hold of a few US made M107, 175mm SP guns too. This was apparently specifically for use (testing) in our then nuclear weapons program.

BTW - Here is a pic of a model of the latest version of the T-5 Condor at a recent defence show in India.
 

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well we would have got the M107 and I would assume M110 from our friends who were helping us with nuclear testing
 
sa_bushwar said:
...And the pre-production G6.

And a picture from the rear, showing the awkward rear jacks of the early prototype and absence of auto loader as found in some of the latest models.
 

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Thanks for the pics sa_bushwar, interesting to see the rear of the early prototype and it's rear jacks - glad they changed it, if not just from an aesthetics point of view...

Here's some info on the G-5 2000 - article courtesy of Janes Defence Upgrades, August 2002.
 

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Based on the success of the Kwevoel mine resistent/armoured trucks, a single prototype armoured and mine resistant 8x8 gun tractor for the G5 howitzer was built on a SAMIL 100 chassis. It never went into production, probably because of costs and the fact that the G5 could stay out of harms way being the 155mm artillery piece with the longest range in the world: Initially 42km's with base bleed technology in the late 1980's, now claimed to be over 70km with the new Assegaai ammunition and latest model G5.
 

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*off f/book,looks like an early model G5
 

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From: http://www.janes.com/article/49187/gulf-countries-turn-towards-wheeled-artillery-idx15vp

(The preference for wheeled vehicles over tracked ones has been taken by the SADF about 35 years ago in support of its doctrine of mobile warfare, rapid deployment, long range, and reduced operating costs.)

"Most countries in the Gulf region still deploy full-tracked self-propelled (SP) artillery systems, with the most widely deployed being the US M109 155mm system, which by today’s standards lacks range. However, a new trend is afoot, and these systems are now being supplemented, or replaced in some countries, by wheeled SP artillery systems that offer greater strategic mobility and lower operating and support costs."...

"Another wheeled SP artillery option, and the best protected, is the South African Denel Land Systems G6 155mm/45 calibre system, which was developed to meet the requirements of the South African Army.The G6 has a high level of protection against not only small arms fire, but also shell splinters and mines.Its 155mm/45 calibre weapon is installed in a fully protected turret on the rear of the armoured hull. In addition to being deployed by South Africa, it has been sold to Oman (24) and the United Arab Emirates (78).Denel Land Systems (Stand 04-C20) is now concentrating its marketing on the G6 fitted with a 155mm/52 calibre artillery turret, which gives an increase in range over the original system. This equipment also features an automatic ammunition handling system for the 155mm projectiles, and a modular charge system that reduces crew fatigue and gives a higher rate of fire."
Good to see the G6 system being developed even further 26 years after it first went into action against FAPLA/CUBAN forces in Angola.
 

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Graugrun said:
Posting this separately to the above post due to size limitation considerations.

As has been pointed out the PFF is optimised vs personnel, and the 155mm is more general purpose

However these diagrams are somewhat misleading for another reason. 4m is probably the optimum height of burst for a 105mm PFF (I'm guessing they want to show the lethal area in the best light) its NOT the optimum height for 155mm, that's c 12-15m. From DEFE15/2264



Given the multitudinous ways of calculating MAE and lethal area these are not directly comparable but the table does illustrate the 155mm operates better with a burst height higher than 4m
Cheers

Bob
 
Is the G6-52L (25-litre chamber, ER variant) still being promoted by Denel Land Systems or did they decide to focus their efforts on the JBMoU-compliant G6-52 (23-litre chamber) ?

Below is a DLS press release that provides some useful details not found in the usual DLS brochures :

Denel Announces Latest G5 Towed Artillery Gun System
(Source: Denel Group; dated June 16, web-posted June 19, 2003)

A substantially improved version of the renowned G5 155mm towed artillery gun system, designated G5-52, has just completed firing trials at the Alkantpan Test Range following development work at LIW, a division of South Africa's Denel Group.

In line with Denel's standard artillery gun nomenclature, this version is known as the G5-52, as the ballistic system is a JBMoU standard 52-calibre, whereas our truck mounted version is named the T5-52, explains Mr Louis Dirker, Group Executive Director, Denel Ordnance. Importantly, as with all Denel's artillery developments, we adhered to a systems approach in the development of the ballistic system, ensuring availability of a gun with a full range of projectiles and fuzes, and a bi-modular charge system which can all be fired safely at the full operating temperature range.

The major improvement to the G5 is a burst loader and a complete projectile handling system, comprising:

-- an electrically-driven chain rammer which loads both the projectile and the charge in the gun barrel;

-- a projectile magazine holding six projectiles in two layers; and

-- a small crane to transfer three projectiles at a time from a ground pile to the projectile magazine.

This latest development meets the requirements of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) and other potential buyers for improved ergonomic gun designs.

One aspect taken into account in the design was the 47kg mass of a 155mm projectile, considered heavy for the average soldier to handle during the loading process. The new system requires no man-handling of projectiles. Only the charge, much lighter at 17kg, has to be placed manually on the loading tray, from where it is automatically pushed into the barrel chamber.

A unique feature of the system is that a firing mission can start with one round in the barrel, one on the loading tray, six in the magazine and three on the crane, says Louis Dirker. Therefore, a total of eleven rounds can be fired without any manipulation of ammunition - a world first for towed gun systems.

A firing rate of six rounds per minute is achievable with the top charge at all elevations. With the fully integrated command system and automatic laying system, MRSI (multiple round simultaneous impact) missions can be conducted with minimal operator assistance.

The G5-52 fires the Denel range of ERFB boat-tail, base-bleed and VLAP projectiles with the M90 bi-modular charge system at a top-charge muzzle velocity of 923m/s.

This gives the G5-52 a sea level range of 41,6km (using base bleed) and 55,3km with VLAP ammunition at 21°C. The operating pressure at 60°C is 430 MPa, providing a large margin of safety in the gun, which has been designed to withstand a pressure of 520 Mpa (with the G6-52L Losvoor derived barrel and breech mechanism).

The 52-calibre ballistic system is not very forgiving when it comes to mixing and matching of system elements, says Mr Org Ehlers, General Manager of LIW. Through its integrated system approach, Denel has ensured that it is the only supplier that can safely fire a 52-caliber artillery system without any restrictions.

The G5-52 complements Denel's lineup of 155mm high performance artillery gun systems, consisting of the G5 and G6 in 45-calibre, the G6-52 and -52L (long range Losvoor), the T6-52 autonomous turret, G5-52 and truck mounted T5-52.

Link
 
Matt R. said:
Is the G6-52L (25-litre chamber, ER variant) still being promoted by Denel Land Systems or did they decide to focus their efforts on the JBMoU-compliant G6-52 (23-litre chamber) ?

Below is a DLS press release that provides some useful details not found in the usual DLS brochures :

Denel Announces Latest G5 Towed Artillery Gun System
(Source: Denel Group; dated June 16, web-posted June 19, 2003)

A substantially improved version of the renowned G5 155mm towed artillery gun system, designated G5-52, has just completed firing trials at the Alkantpan Test Range following development work at LIW, a division of South Africa's Denel Group.

In line with Denel's standard artillery gun nomenclature, this version is known as the G5-52, as the ballistic system is a JBMoU standard 52-calibre, whereas our truck mounted version is named the T5-52, explains Mr Louis Dirker, Group Executive Director, Denel Ordnance. Importantly, as with all Denel's artillery developments, we adhered to a systems approach in the development of the ballistic system, ensuring availability of a gun with a full range of projectiles and fuzes, and a bi-modular charge system which can all be fired safely at the full operating temperature range.

The major improvement to the G5 is a burst loader and a complete projectile handling system, comprising:

-- an electrically-driven chain rammer which loads both the projectile and the charge in the gun barrel;

-- a projectile magazine holding six projectiles in two layers; and

-- a small crane to transfer three projectiles at a time from a ground pile to the projectile magazine.

This latest development meets the requirements of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) and other potential buyers for improved ergonomic gun designs.

One aspect taken into account in the design was the 47kg mass of a 155mm projectile, considered heavy for the average soldier to handle during the loading process. The new system requires no man-handling of projectiles. Only the charge, much lighter at 17kg, has to be placed manually on the loading tray, from where it is automatically pushed into the barrel chamber.

A unique feature of the system is that a firing mission can start with one round in the barrel, one on the loading tray, six in the magazine and three on the crane, says Louis Dirker. Therefore, a total of eleven rounds can be fired without any manipulation of ammunition - a world first for towed gun systems.

A firing rate of six rounds per minute is achievable with the top charge at all elevations. With the fully integrated command system and automatic laying system, MRSI (multiple round simultaneous impact) missions can be conducted with minimal operator assistance.

The G5-52 fires the Denel range of ERFB boat-tail, base-bleed and VLAP projectiles with the M90 bi-modular charge system at a top-charge muzzle velocity of 923m/s.

This gives the G5-52 a sea level range of 41,6km (using base bleed) and 55,3km with VLAP ammunition at 21°C. The operating pressure at 60°C is 430 MPa, providing a large margin of safety in the gun, which has been designed to withstand a pressure of 520 Mpa (with the G6-52L Losvoor derived barrel and breech mechanism).

The 52-calibre ballistic system is not very forgiving when it comes to mixing and matching of system elements, says Mr Org Ehlers, General Manager of LIW. Through its integrated system approach, Denel has ensured that it is the only supplier that can safely fire a 52-caliber artillery system without any restrictions.

The G5-52 complements Denel's lineup of 155mm high performance artillery gun systems, consisting of the G5 and G6 in 45-calibre, the G6-52 and -52L (long range Losvoor), the T6-52 autonomous turret, G5-52 and truck mounted T5-52.

Link

The 25 litre chamber option was an offer to Australia for LAND 17 nine years ago. If it was wanted. No reason for the big chamber to disappear. The IP won't expire.
 
Perhaps this is common knowledge but it was new to me. SA steel in the Merkava hull, according to The Israeli Connection, ISBN 1850430691:

The reference to Allon, 1986 appears to be to an article by a journalist of that name in the newspaper Haaretz.
 

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The book The Israeli Connection has been totally discredited by anybody with knowledge of Israel. It is a book about how Israel has a conspiracy to control the world via arms sales.

Ha'aretz is consider a bit less reliable than Al Jazeera - they are well known for inventing 'history'.

Anything associated with them should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
 
There is a well known link between the South African steel giant ISCOR (YSKOR in Afrikaans), established in 1928, and the Israeli steel industry.
Eric Samson, a (very) reclusive steel billionaire South African of Jewish heritage, played a large role.
For example, ISCOR largely helped set up the Israeli Iskoor steel company in 1973, the same year development of the Merkava began, after the Yom Kippur War.
Iskoor was involved in the Merkava.
The South African/Israeli connection was a two way street.
 
kaiserbill said:
There is a well known link between the South African steel giant ISCOR (YSKOR in Afrikaans), established in 1928, and the Israeli steel industry.
Eric Samson, a (very) reclusive steel billionaire South African of Jewish heritage, played a large role.
For example, ISCOR largely helped set up the Israeli Iskoor steel company in 1973, the same year development of the Merkava began, after the Yom Kippur War.
Iskoor was involved in the Merkava.
The South African/Israeli connection was a two way street.

Including wastage there has probably been no more than 10,000 tonnes of steel per annum going into the Merkava tank. Most of this steel would have been sourced by five different agencies/enterprises with no concern or connection to the others (hull, armour, ordnance, engine, track). During the convergence of the Merkava and the Apartheid regime ISCOR had a capacity for some two million tonnes of steel per annum. So even if all the Merkava steel came from the RSA it was still only about 0.5% of production. Defence is a tiny fraction of post WWII steel production world wide. Steel (HHS) for armour is a very boutique business these days and mass production capacity is very much the least important issue so not requiring highly efficient outlets close to iron sources who mostly turn out wire, thin sheet (in rolls), rebar and other mass use steel products.
 
I have a couple of questions regarding the LEO G7 105mm :

1) Has the weight reduction program (from 3,800 kg down to less than 3,000 kg) been implemented ? If it did, what's the mass they ended up with ?

2) A 105mm variant of V-LAP was quite regularly mentioned in the past, but I haven't been able to figure out the current status of this project ? Is it still live ? Any specs available ?

Thanks in advance.
 
From http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159053

One of the world’s largest live-firing demonstrations got underway at the Overberg Test Range earlier this week when Rheinmetall and Denel hosted the second Defence Day, aimed at showcasing Rheinmetall Denel Munition’s capabilities to 400 guests from 57 countries around the world.

The first Defence Day was held at Alkantpan in the Northern Cape. Another Defence Day is scheduled to be held five years from now. For 2015’s edition, held at the Range on April 22 and 23, Rheinmetall and Denel joined forces to display a wide range of weapons and ammunition, from 40 mm grenades to guided bombs.

A wide range of artillery shells was demonstrated, ranging from 105 to 155 mm and in various different types from practice to tracer and illuminating. Shells were fired from nearly 50 kilometres away to land on the Range, and were also fired from the Range at various targets from a self-propelled T5-52 howitzer. This mounts a G5 towed gun on a truck, with the howitzer firing from the rear for an unobstructed arc of fire. It can fire three rounds in under 20 seconds in burst mode.

The artillery shells fired contained various different payloads such as illumination, screening smoke, high explosive, High Explosive Pre-Formed Fragmented (HE PFF), infrared illumination and Velocity-Enhanced Extended Range Shells (VLAP), which use rocket and base bleed assistance for ranges in excess of 40 kilometres. The 155 mm Assegai HE PFF shell, for example, contains 18 000 tungsten pellets that are lethal out to 50 metres. The Assegai shell features insensitive explosives that will not easily detonate when struck by bullets, for example.

A 76 mm OTO Melara naval gun was brought in and this fired tracers as well as PFF ammunition to disable a simulated anti-ship missile mounted on a pole down the range.

Rheinmetall Denel Munition (RDM)’s factories are at 100% capacity and are being kept busy by a new rocket motor contract and Assegai and 105 mm artillery round orders, amongst others, according to CEO Norbert Schulze.

Last year RDM qualified its new 155 mm Assegai range and has received several orders from NATO countries and the Middle East for this series of artillery rounds. Several customers placed orders for more than 80 000 rounds already. Schulze said there is a lot of interest in the range in the Far and Middle East. The Assegai range comes with a variety of payloads, such as high explosive (HE), insensitive HE, pre-fragmented insensitive HE, illumination, infrared illumination, smoke, practice base bleed and V-LAP (velocity-enhanced long-range artillery projectile).

A significant contract for the company is an order for 35 000 rounds of 105 mm PFF (pre-formed fragmentation) artillery shells from the United States, with production running until the beginning of next year. On the mortar front, Schulze said that RDM last year began delivering 75 000 rounds of 120 mm ammunition for a Middle Eastern client, and expects a follow-on order.

RDM has supplied all rocket motor propellants for Denel Dynamics products such as the A-Darter and Ingwe, and recently became the sole supplier of propellants for Forges de Zeebrugge FZ 70 rockets. RDM’s propellant gives better range (and less smoke) than that supplied by a European company, resulting in RDM displacing that company as the sole supplier. Since November 2014 RDM has been delivering 2 000 units a month to Forges de Zeebrugge. Any future rockets developed by the Belgian company will likely have RDM propellants, according to Schulze.

Picture shows T5-52 firing.
 

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I found these some time ago , but totally forgot to post them here. I can not remember if they were posted in the full thread.

G6 Prototype. Obvious differences before the production version is the tube , front suspension and driver compartment.

Last one from FB
 

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In in an earlier post of mine (#24), I posted some info on the Fuchs course correcting/guided fuse. I then promised to post some more info on the Denel (Dynamics Division I believe) course correcting fuse/guided, now called the AcuFuze - that they have been busy with for a good couple of years.

I was told that the usual lack of funding has been behind it's slow progress, well at least it's still being developed. Hopefully once they get some successful testing completed, it should change the picture quickly in terms of getting it to market. In terms of how accurate and what cost relation it is to the American Excaliber type solution, I don't know - time will hopefully tell.

Very little else on the AcuFuze is available - I don't think there was even a brochure on it at the AAD 2016 show (where I took the below pics).

If anyone knows anything more - please fill us in!
 

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That's a sweet turret.
A lot of armies are hooked on the "wheels for better road mobility",
but I can't help but wonder how that might look on any number of tracked platforms...
 
Matt R. said:
Is the G6-52L (25-litre chamber, ER variant) still being promoted by Denel Land Systems or did they decide to focus their efforts on the JBMoU-compliant G6-52 (23-litre chamber) ?

From Jane's :

Assegai aims to squeeze more reach out of NATO howitzers
Rupert Pengelley - Jane's International Defence Review
10 November 2017

A 70 km-range version of the Assegai 155 mm artillery projectile, fully compatible with NATO-standard extended-range ordnance systems, is in its concept study phase within the German-South African company Rheinmetall Denel Munition (RDM).

This level of performance was demonstrated as far back as 2006 by the then Denel Naschem with the M9703 hybrid base-bleed/rocket-assisted Velocity Enhanced Artillery Projectile (VLAP) version of its Extended-Range Full-Bore (ERFB) 155 mm artillery projectile. In that instance the ERFB VLAP projectile was fired from Denel’s G6-52L self-propelled howitzer fitted with a Losvoor 52-calibre/25-litre tube and using a charge comprising six M64A1 propellant modules to give it a muzzle velocity of 1,015 m/s. However, neither the 48 kg M9703 projectile; its associated charge system; nor the Losvoor ordnance system (which is no longer being marketed by Denel), are compliant with NATO’s Joint Ballistics Memorandum of Understanding (JBMOU). The latter constrains projectile weight to 43.5 kg and chamber volume to 23 litres.

The established Assegai JBMOU-compliant 155 mm projectile family does already include two VLAP variants: the M2005 high-explosive (HE) projectile filled with 4.3 kg of TNT/HNS and featuring natural fragmentation, and the M0256 IHE-PFF version with press-filled PBX4 insensitive explosive and pre-formed fragments (PFF). In a standard atmosphere both can be fired to 41 km out of a 39-calibre/18-litre tube (muzzle velocity [m/v] 827 m/s), and to 54 km out of a 52-calibre/23-litre tube (m/v 950 m/s), respectively using JBMOU-compliant five-module and six-module charges.

The new Assegai VLAP projectile, informally designated VLAP 70, is planned to be fired using a newly developed unitary top charge. This will exploit the Assegai’s in-built permissible individual maximum pressure margin (PIMP 450MPa) and will be specifically matched to the 23-litre chamber volume of the JBMOU 155mm/52-calibre ordnance system. It will be filled with a modified version of the R5733 propellant used in RWM’s current DM92 charge module, and will impart a muzzle velocity in excess of 1,000 m/s to the projectile. The pressure/time curve will be kept within the gun’s standard operating pressure limits by the incorporation of a bespoke ignition system.

VLAP 70 would thus effectively match the range performance being claimed for Leonardo’s rival sub-calibre (92 mm) unguided Vulcano BER long-range HE projectile when fired from a similar 155 mm ordnance system (in Vulcano BER’s case using four standard DM92 modules to supplement the projectile’s integral charge increment). Norway’s Nammo is also working on a ramjet-boosted HE-ER round with an estimated 90 km range. RDM experimented with ramjet technology in the early 2000s but discontinued the ProRam projectile due to the lack of a User Requirement.

All such extended range projectiles contain reduced HE payloads (4.3 kg in the case of VLAP) in comparison with standard unassisted 155 mm projectiles, but this has been offset in RDM’s Assegai M0603 IHE PFF projectile through improvements in fragmentation characteristics. Crucially also the ability to fit them with course-correcting fuzes now potentially enables such projectiles to be placed within a radial distance of 30 m or less of the target, out to their maximum range.
 
Can anyone ID this piece ?
Looks like a 90mm converted to howitzer for the arty bats.
 

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That first picture is interesting!
It looks like the 90mm as found on the Eland 90 and Ratel 90.
I think the second picture is the 106mm recoiless gun fitted onto refurbished Ferrets, that was used as a prime mover/Anti Tank chassis for the parabats in the 1980's.
There are pics out there of it.
I wonder why it's towing that strange 90mm (?) gun....but then, as you said, it might not be an anti tank weapon but rather repurposed as a howitzer/artillery piece.

It's actually a nice pic of the remodelled/modernised Ferret btw.
 
Not sure what advantage it would've given the Bats over their mortars or 106's.
I don't know what the max elevated range is for that gun. As I understand it , the effective ranges given for the 90mm was for direct fire from a Ratel turret.
 
Cockerill did market towed versions of a couple of their 90mm guns, especially the KEnerga Mk 8, as infantry support guns. Mainly direct fire, I think, as with the turreted versions. This looks like a homebrewed equivalent.
 
Earlier in the thread, we had the GT2 90mm mounted on I think a 17 pdr carriage. It was apparently used for testing or development work, although I've seen it described as a "demonstrator" too.
See some additional pics below.
I wonder if this was an offshoot of that, after testing results, with a much lighter carriage suitable for airborne use?

Idle speculation on my part...

I also wonder if that carriage on the lighter parabat version is purpose built, or repurposed from a lighter weapon...anybody know?
 

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When those pics came up on FB, there were other pics included in the series/album, incl one of a vanilla sample the landcruiser vehicles used later by the the "pathfinder" guys in the early 80's round Ops Protea,circa 82 or thereabouts.

If I recall correctly the team were trying out a variety of vehicle/weapon combos as concepts for an envisaged AT component for airborne forces.
 
Reply to post #67
I think the 90mm gun from the Eland 90 was originally seen mounted on an old 6 pounder gun carriage. The one in the photo obviously has a custom-built, light-weight carriage. Seeing that it is drawn by a Jakkals "jeeplet", it was apparently intended for the Parabats. It would have been intended for general fire-support (HE, smoke and canister), and anti-tank (HEAT). I get the impression that the anti-tank situation was especially precarious during the border war. At that time, the standard anti-armour weapons internationally were wire-guided missiles (ATGMs), exemplefied by things like TOW, HOT, MILAN, DRAGON etc. At the end of the seventies, SA had some ENTAC, first generation missiles but these were very iffy as far as hit probability was concerned (highly operater-dependent and the operator was highly training-dependent), and their shelf-life had probably expired by this time. There also were some (very few?) MILANs available, and that was it. The arms embargo prohibited the acquisition of more of this type of weapon. This little cannon was probably intended to give the 'bats at least some anti-armour capability.
 

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Some slides, including windtunnel pic, of the Denel ramjet Proram 155mm munition from the early 2000's .... 2004 I think?

EDIT: Actually..2001, as per a pdf from Somchem, a division of Denel. The Pdf is from 2001, implying work done earlier.
 

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