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Maveric

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Hi all,

at Air Enthusiast I read a article about Fokker paper projects. In this article are the Koolhoven project 1164 and 1167, both heavy fighter aircraft. Of the former, only one three-view drawing remains and from the second only a fuselage drawing and technical data remains. Anybody of you have this informations ???
There was also the de Schelde S.19, a heavy fighter project based on the Pander Postjager. Photos are known to exist of a model!
Can anybody help ???

THANKS for your post ::) :eek:
 

hesham

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Dear Maveric,

I spoke before about the Koolhoven 1164 and 1167 and
they were twin engined four seat bombers,and they
based on FK.59.
For the S-19,I just heard that it was twin boom fighter,
nothing more.
 

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lark

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a bit of correction...

The Koolhoven 1164 and 1167 were projects for
a so-called 'Jachtkruiser ' (pursuit cruiser or fighter cruiser).

The basics of for these two jachtkruiser designs of 1938-39 can be found
in the Koolhoven FK 50B , military variant of the FK 50.

The FK 59 was a two engined torpedobomber floatplane.

sources :" Koolhoven ,Nederlands vliegtuigbouwer in de schaduw van Fokker"
( " Dutch aircraft builder in Fokker's shadow)
Theo Wesselinck-Thijs Postma .Uniboek . Bussum 1981

" Avia " - July 1980 page 307


The military variant of the Pander 'Postjager' was the Pander S.4 'Militair'
a planned medium bomber or long range reconnaissence aircraft.

source :pander S.4 'Postjager' , Hugo Hooftman.Cockpit uitgeverij.Bennekom 1977.
 

Apophenia

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An impression of the Koolhoven FK50B. The original (a retouched FK50?) can be seen here: http://www.alexdenouden.nl/artikelen/koolhoven06.htm (about half way down page)

The same site says that the "FK-59 was designed for the Portugese Naval Air Service. It was to be a torpedo bomber. The design was finished in 1937. A mock-up was made, but in the end, the Portugese preferred a Heinkel design".

News to me. I'd always assumed that the FK59 was a rival for the Fokker T.VIII.
 

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Apophenia

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Maveric,

See Hesham's De Schelde bomber aircraft post for what is probably your S.19 luchtkruiser.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5276.0.html
 

Jan den Das

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Correct, this pictures of the F.K.50B was original a F.K.50
The F.K.50B project was designed for Spain and not for Portugal.
The F.K.50B had a retractable landing gear.
As you maybe know or not know, Koolhoven has delivered two versions of the F.K.51 to Spain.
Spain ordered also the F.K.52 (two-seat fighter), but they were to late becaus the war was ended.
This was alos the raison that the F.K.50B project was stopt.
Jan
 

Jan den Das

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F.K.59
That Portugal was interrested in the F.K.59 is a story and not correct.
It was Norway because they found the Fokker VII-W fuselage to small and they had already free for licence.
Buth the F.K.59 was not yet build and the Heinkel had flown so Norway bought the Heinkel floatplane.
If Norway had bought the F.K.59 there was a chnage that Sweden bought it also
Jan
 

hesham

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Hi,


F.K.59 (second use) was single engine two seat recce and fighter biplane
developed from F.K.52 for LVA,project only.
 

Hawker Nut

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Hi,
Jan is right. The Portuguese Naval Air Arm has indeed shown some interest in a Dutch aircraft, but it was the Fokker T.VIII, but eventually internal strife between services and more generous funding accorded to the an ambitious Army procurement program ended it.

HN
 

Jan den Das

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Concerning flying boats.
Koolhoven was always interrested in flyingboats, he says that for longrange transport the aeroplanes would be to big to start and land on land, he was not the only one at that time. (he should have seen the new airbus).
The first known flyingboat project is from his BAT period, but there are no details left.
As you maybe know was the factory (at airfield Waalhaven) hit during the first attack on May 10, 1940, and it was complete burned down. So the archive was also destroyed.
But strange he never build one.
Jan
 

hesham

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Hi,


also Koolhoven Project 1151,MLD and PH-AVB projects;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8890.msg80188.html#msg80188


We must merge those topics.


And that is the translation for Project 1151 from the site;
http://www.verenigdevleugels.nl/pdf/VV-9e-No-5.pdf




Appeared around 1937 under design number 1151 a small flying boat for six people (four passengers and two crew)with an aluminum hull and a- Possibly folding - wooden wing.The device had two short "sea wings" under to the hull with a retractable undercarriage into Sat The wing had two six-cylinder Menasco inline engines of 290 hp. The span would be 16 meters, length 12.5m and the wing area 35m ². the weight was 2950 kg, the maximum speed 265 km / h, the maximum 5300 meters altitude and the flight range 1000 km.This too was only a draft. There is also nothing is known.

 

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hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,


F.K.59 (second use) was single engine two seat recce and fighter biplane
developed from F.K.52 for LVA,project only.

Has anyone a drawing to this re-allocated F.K.59 ?.
 

lark

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Answer to Justo's questions:

first two : above - modernised version of the FK 52 by ir. Van der Eyk-1938
below - Koolhoven ontwerp 1171

second : above - Carley design type unknown
below - Koolhoven ontwerp 1117

source : Koolhoven - Nederlandse vliegtuigbouwer in de schaduw van Fokker
( Dutch aircraft builder in Fokker's shade)
 

hesham

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lark said:
Answer to Justo's questions:

first two : above - modernised version of the FK 52 by ir. Van der Eyk-1938
below - Koolhoven ontwerp 1171

second : above - Carley design type unknown
below - Koolhoven ontwerp 1117

source : Koolhoven - Nederlandse vliegtuigbouwer in de schaduw van Fokker
( Dutch aircraft builder in Fokker's shade)

We know Carley reached C-12,what was this ?!.
 

Tophe

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Dear Lark directed me to an interesting twin-boom project of the 1920s (or early 1930s): Koolhoven Design (Ontwerp) 1029, unbuilt fighter offered to Sweden without success:
http://www.nederlandseluchtvaart.nl/forums/f14-koolhoven/koolhoven-ontwerp-1029-a-19103/
translated: http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nederlandseluchtvaart.nl%2Fforums%2Ff14-koolhoven%2Fkoolhoven-ontwerp-1029-a-19103%2F
 

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Maveric

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Thanks Tophe, this project was new for me... B)
 

bigvlada

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Slick design :). But why only two engines ? Or is it four engines in the wings and two propellers?
 

cluttonfred

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This post in an earlier thread mentions ten engines coupled to drive two large props for this 100-ton flying boat project.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8890.msg80188.html#msg80188
 

Jemiba

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Indeed, as I understand the article from "Verenigde Vleugels", September 2007, they would have been hydraulically
coupled, so probably engines could be connected or disconnected from the system quite easily.
 

hesham

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Hi,


the Ontwerp 1105 was three seat low-wing scout and light bomber
project of 1936,powered by one 720 hp Wright Cyclone F-52 engine.
 

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lark

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Interesting drawings Hesham,
As usual ,do you have a source ?
 

hesham

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lark said:
Interesting drawings Hesham,
As usual ,do you have a source ?

Ok my dear Lark,


and here is the source;
http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getsimplesearch&database=ChoiceMardig&needimages=YES&searchterm=koolhoven&allfields=&title=&keyword=&creator=&collection=&shipname=&invno=&museum=&startrow=201
 

Apophenia

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Thanks Hesham. Interesting link (including, on page 6, shots of the FK 35 model not shown on the Alex den Ouden site). Where did you find the Ontwerp 1142 images?
 

hesham

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My dear Apophenia,


in that site;
http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nederlandseluchtvaart.nl%2Fforums%2Ff14-koolhoven%2Fkoolhoven-ontwerp-1029-a-19103%2F
 

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hesham

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Hi,


here is the Koolhoven FK.31 early design and prototype and final,also the
FK.34 floatplane.
 

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hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,


F.K.59 (second use) was single engine two seat recce and fighter biplane
developed from F.K.52 for LVA,project only.

The source;


http://web.archive.org/web/20030112164056/http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str003an.htm
 

lark

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Hesham ,

The 3-view in your post # 36 is the FK.33 I think.

This was not a project as far as I know...
 
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