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Scottish Aviation twin-hull transatlantic airliner

Antonio

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Picture from Flypast December 2007 page 122. It is a model displayed at the "Silverjet" terminal at Luton Airport.

Design from Scottish Aviation, 1942, 160-seater transatlantic airliner (a landplane version existed)

Looking for more info

Thanks in advance :)
 

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Skybolt

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

The article cites a book on a Scottish aviation pioneer containing more data (I haven't here the copy my friend Lark sent to me, so I don't remeber the title nor the name).
 

lark

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

To be comple:

Prestwick's Pioneer-A Portrait of David McIntyre
by:Dougal McIntyre

Woodfield Publishing Ltd.
United Kingdom.
 

Antonio

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

That's the link

http://www.woodfieldpublishing.co.uk/

Then you have to click on "Onlin Bookshop", "Scottish Connections", "Page 2"
 

Tophe

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

:) Thanks for the source...
:( £25 is rather expensive for a few words, alas. I will not buy it for myself, but I may offer it to someone... Lark, are you very interested? ;)
 

lark

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

Yes, your are right Tophe. Therefore I seek to know
more about the contents of the book before ordering it.
I hope it contains also more info of the planned
Clyde Clipper derivatives built along the Burnelli concept...
 

McTodd

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

lark said:
I hope it contains also more info of the planned
Clyde Clipper derivatives built along the Burnelli concept...

Unless the Scottish aviation pioneer McIntyre was involved in those projects, I very much doubt your hopes will be fulfilled...
 

McTodd

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

I received the book yesterday via interlibrary loan and sadly, as it's about David McIntyre and not aviation in general, there is nothing about any other flying wing concepts.

Indeed, there is very little information about the giant twin-fuselage design save this text:

With a view to expanding the Company's manufacturing capability David McIntyre in 1942, recruited a Chief Designer from Hawker Aircraft, Robert McIntyre (only latterly discovered to be related three generations past) to lead a new design team and establish an approved Aircraft Design office at Prestwick. One of the early designs to make an appearance was a twin fuselage six engined aircraft, which could operate either as a landplane or seaplane. It was designed to carry 160 passengers with a maximum take off weight of 300,000 lbs and was planned for the post war Scottish Airlines North Atlantic air route...

And that's it, apart from a photo of a model (which is different from the Luton Airport model above; it doesn't have the twin-sets of contra-rotating props, and with its clearly fatter flying boat hulls, it makes me suspect the Luton Airport model is a landplane, with slimmer fuselages) and the covers of two pamphlets for SA, painted by a local artist, Tom Gilfillan. On the 1943 plan, the four-engine craft next to the monster 160-seater appears to be another SA design, for a 30-seat airliner dubbed 'Concord' which was to use Liberator wings on a new fuselage (see attached model photo).
 

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lark

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

Thanks a lot !

Since there is so few information about these designs available
this is more than welcome..
 

McTodd

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

Sadly, that's all there is in that book. However, I understand that Scottish Aviation was merged, along with Hawker and another company the name of which escapes me, into British Aerospace, now BAe Systems, so I shall drop them a line and see if they have anything in their archives. I'll keep you posted...
 

lark

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Re: Scottish Aviation giant airliner

That's very kind.Thanks.
 

TsrJoe

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Found these whilst clearing out an old disc (unfortunately i didnt note their provenance at that time) ...
there's also an album on the Facebook WW2.5 page covering Scottish Aviation designs :) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1562927020683712&type=1
 

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blackkite

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Amazing!!! Thanks. :eek: BOAC. :)

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/about-ba/history-and-heritage/uniforms/boac-uniforms
 

Jemiba

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With the Flypast issue from December 2007,design company‘s ad and Christoph Meuniers (Tophes) website
as main sources it's about source grade 2:
 

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lark

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The Scottish Aviation 'Twin Hull Boat' is still alive ..
Thanks Jens!
 

TsrJoe

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beautiful, many thanks for sharing. I have been through the SA. projects archive copying everything I could find but unfortunately the records seem to start with the Pioneer and there's nothing on the twin fuselage design or the Concord :( (im wondering if the earlier material was transferred elsewhere, I might have to go looking)

cheers, Joe
 

foiling

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That is just beautiful, Jemiba. A fabulous design, executed excellently as you always do. I love it.
 

SlickDriver

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Now this is a design I would have loved to have seen built. Twin fuselage and amphibian. What more could you ask for?
 

Schneiderman

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Ideas go round and round and round. Twin-hull flying boats have been proposed many times yet, if I remember correctly, only Savoia-Marchetti have ever made it work. After Scottish Aviation had a go, and got no interest, Short also played with the concept (again, they did the same in 1919). Its only an illustration, never a series project, but it does show that ideas never die.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1958/1958%20-%200314.html
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1958/1958%20-%200315.html
 

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hesham

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And I suspected at first,if this Project was from Saro;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2504.msg98557.html#msg98557
 

Schneiderman

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As the reply to your post in that thread says the article was written by Robertson from Short and it is just an illustration for a paper, not a project.
However Saunders Roe, like many others, did indeed look at freight flying boat concepts in 1948. One twin-hull layout was designated P125/2.
 

hesham

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Hi Schneiderman,

can you display a drawing to P.152/2 ?.
 

kitnut617

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TsrJoe said:
Found these whilst clearing out an old disc (unfortunately i didnt note their provenance at that time) ...
there's also an album on the Facebook WW2.5 page covering Scottish Aviation designs :) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1562927020683712&type=1

Joe, is there any information like what type of engines would have powered this project ? 24 cylinder 'H' configuration Rolls Royce Eagle perhaps ? or Sabre VIII ?
 

Schneiderman

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hesham said:
Hi Schneiderman,

can you display a drawing to P.152/2 ?.

From From Sea to Air; the heritage of Sam Saunders by Tagg & Wheeler

Just another twin-hull concept that had no hope of ever being built
 

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hesham

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Thank you Schneiderman,

and I think you meant P.125/2 and not P.152/2.
 

Schneiderman

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Since I seem to have dragged this thread a little off-topic with Short and Saro concepts I may as well finish the job.
In 1927 Saunders patented the idea for a twin-hull flying boat, although I doubt that this would have stood up to legal challenge as there had been plenty of designs before that date, and probably a few aircraft too. What goes around comes around.
Anyway here is the illustration from GB patent 296570.
 

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Schneiderman

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Primarily a landplane, judging by the majority of Scottish Aviation illustrations
 

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jcf

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Schneiderman said:
Since I seem to have dragged this thread a little off-topic with Short and Saro concepts I may as well finish the job.
In 1927 Saunders patented the idea for a twin-hull flying boat, although I doubt that this would have stood up to legal challenge as there had been plenty of designs before that date, and probably a few aircraft too. What goes around comes around.
Anyway here is the illustration from GB patent 296570.

Needs more struts-n-wires. ;D
 

foiling

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With the Flypast issue from December 2007,design company‘s ad and Christoph Meuniers (Tophes) website
as main sources it's about source grade 2:
Outstanding illustration of a beautiful aircraft.
 

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