• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Saab Gripen NG

Tony Williams

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
576
Reaction score
228
Website
www.quarryhs.co.uk
Abraham Gubler said:
The presence of a clear and present danger has never been an exclusive reason for national defence. If this were the case then Switzerland would be a long way down the list of countries that wouldn’t need an air force.

That is true, but in most other cases the armed forces have more than one role. For example, the RAF's fighter force deals with air policing, is also large enough to provide a credible defence against an air attack on the UK, and is also used in a power projection role abroad, including combat missions in air-to-air and air-to-ground roles.

In comparison, the Swiss air force deals only with air policing, and that only during office hours. Being entirely surrounded by NATO nations, an air attack against Switzerland could only happen in the case of a major European war, in which case a very small force of fighters would be irrelevant.

Still, I was not really serious about the Swiss scrapping their air force (however logical that might be) as it provides one of the badges of national sovereignty. But there really doesn't seem much point in buying a top-line multi-role combat plane for air policing. One of the new supersonic advanced trainers would be adequate for that for about a quarter of the price - the South Korean KAI T-50 or the Italian M346.
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,222
Reaction score
929
Tony Williams said:
... as it provides one of the badges of national sovereignty. ...

That's the point ! Apart from air policing, it's more of a symbol, than a true defence asset
and such symbols, especially military ones, are more and more scrutinised nowadays by
taxpayers/electors. For a government, buying new fighters so is a bigger political danger,
than the military threat, that's behind this decision, which probably is quite low for Switzerland !
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,719
Reaction score
501
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Switzerland was purchasing the Gripen NG as replacement for their Northrop F-5E and F-5F fighters. The country still operates 26 McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C and 6 F/A-18D fighters.
 

J.A.W.

"Keep on Truckin'.."
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
662
Reaction score
4
Unless needs must - of course.. since even uncle Adolf was deterred from his customary uninvited intrusion..
 

RadicalDisconnect

Anthony Foulke
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
162
Reaction score
1
Found this image over at Key Publishing forums. It's apparently from Saab, but I don't know if it's legit or not.

 

datafuser

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
121
Reaction score
13
Deduced from the "F-16IN" and PAK-FA in the slide, it could have been made sometime between January 2010 and April 2011, in the sales campaign for the Indian MMRCA.
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,719
Reaction score
501
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
"Embraer's role grows in Brazilian Gripen programme"
By: Stephen Trimble
Washington DC
Source: Flightglobal.com
18:26 31 Jul 2014

Source:

Embraer confirms the company’s role in Brazil’s F-X fighter programme has expanded since the air force awarded the $4.5 billion contract to Saab to deliver 36 Gripen NG fighters.

“It’s fair to say we’re seeing a larger role than what we foresaw before the contract was selected,” says chief executive Frederico Curado, speaking to analysis on a second quarter earnings call on 31 July.

In the extended saga of the F-X2 selection process, discerning Embraer’s preferences and future role in the industrial offset programme was a frequent topic of speculation.

In 2009, a top Embraer executive noted that Brazilian industry stood to benefit the most by aligning with Saab over rival bids from the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Dassault Rafale.

Embraer officially remained neutral over the course of the selection process, but corporately it formed a wider, strategic partnership with Boeing.

Embraer’s absence was noted last December in the formal announcement by the Brazilian air force, which selected the Gripen for the F-X2 deal.

In the months, the role of Embraer and other suppliers have been clarified.

The Brazilian Gripens will be assembled at Embraer’s military factory and flight test centre in Gaviao Peixoto, Curado says.

Embraer also will play a role in developing the two-seat version of the Gripen NG, he adds. It would mark Embraer’s first significant effort in designing and producing a new supersonic aircraft.

“We probably have a higher participation in that development than what we foresaw several months ago,” Curado says.
 

stealthflanker

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
584
Reaction score
256
RadicalDisconnect said:
Found this image over at Key Publishing forums. It's apparently from Saab, but I don't know if it's legit or not.

Would love to see the math behind that slide.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,351
Reaction score
3,375
stealthflanker said:
RadicalDisconnect said:
Found this image over at Key Publishing forums. It's apparently from Saab, but I don't know if it's legit or not.

Would love to see the math behind that slide.


I don't see anything controversial. I'd probably put Gripen-C/D slighly higher compared to the F-16C/D.
 

Arjen

It's turtles all the way down
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,717
Reaction score
492
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. From Switzerland, Bilanz reports:

Gripen Kampfjet reloaded: Der zweite Anlauf

PR-agency Hirzel.Neef.Schmid.Konsulenten has been hired again by SAAB to lobby for selling Gripen to Switzerland. Last year, F-5 replacement was nixed after a referendum shot down a proposed deal to buy 22 Gripen NG aircraft. Starting in 2017, candidates for replacement of the Swiss F-18 fleet are to be evaluated, with replacement aircraft to enter service no later than 2025. H.N.S.K. is to step up its activities from 2016 onwards.[quote author=Agency spokesman Victor Schmid]Wir haben den Gripen zweimal durchs Parlament gebracht, das verbindet.[/quote]
We have guided the Gripen through Parliament twice, that cements/affirms [a relationship].
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,759
Reaction score
1,906
Separately, Saab has been awarded SKr223 million to develop and produce countermeasures equipment for its new-generation Gripen E/NG, which is on order for the Swedish and Brazilian air forces. Work will conclude during 2020, with the self-protection system also to be compatible with in-service C/D-model examples.

 

LowObservable

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,202
Reaction score
130
That's interesting. The Swedes said that they were nicknamed "the velociraptors" after their first outing to Red Flag Alaska in 2006, which would reflect the Gripen ConOps.
 

hs1216

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
110
Reaction score
5
With the current economic and political situation in Brazil, is a new fighter realistic?
 

gral_rj

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
88
Reaction score
24
The original 36 aircraft contract is already funded, as far as I know. What might(should?) happen is any further acquisitions(original plans were for at least 120 aircraft, IIRC) get cancelled. But the FAB is playing its cards close to the chest, so there's nothing really defined yet.
 

Deltafan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,014
Reaction score
342
Hi

This Swiss aerowebmedia announces (in french) the Victory of the Gripen NG in Colombia (36 for 4,5 billions $), but no other media confirms...

 

Deltafan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,014
Reaction score
342
Well, I found this article in Spanish, but Google gives this article from 27/02/2017... ???

 

Flyaway

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
4,270
Reaction score
1,976
Gripen Aggressor targets UK, US requirements

Saab has launched a new derivative of its Gripen C, which it believes is ideally suited to meeting the future adversary training needs of the UK and USA.

 

red admiral

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Messages
616
Reaction score
74
Flyaway said:
Gripen Aggressor targets UK, US requirements

Saab has launched a new derivative of its Gripen C, which it believes is ideally suited to meeting the future adversary training needs of the UK and USA.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/gripen-aggressor-targets-uk-us-requirements-441052/

Difficult to see how this is remotely comparable with the costs for other agressor options
 

galgot

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
896
Reaction score
904
Website
galgot.com
Flying carpet sell rep...
Do they have that much surplus C models to sell ? Or maybe SwAF wants to get rid of their that way to get new NGs ?
 

Foo Fighter

I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
555
Just a brief sales pitch rather than real information.
 

TomS

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
4,288
Reaction score
1,238
red admiral said:
Flyaway said:
Gripen Aggressor targets UK, US requirements

Saab has launched a new derivative of its Gripen C, which it believes is ideally suited to meeting the future adversary training needs of the UK and USA.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/gripen-aggressor-targets-uk-us-requirements-441052/

Difficult to see how this is remotely comparable with the costs for other agressor options

I think the USAF ADAIR contract was at least exploring the possibility of supersonic aircraft. That means pretty much ex-IAF F-16s or ex-WarPac MiG-21s. And there seem to be some US State Department legal snags with reselling the F-16s. Gripen Aggressor gets around that by being a purpose-built non-combat aircraft that never had a weapons capability.
 

Flyaway

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
4,270
Reaction score
1,976
Gripen Aggressor enters the fray in US red air competition

Saab is exploring the burgeoning red air market with its Gripen Aggressor, but the new adversary aircraft could face a tough competition against cheaper, former military jets.

 

Flyaway

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
4,270
Reaction score
1,976
Supersonic test keeps Gripen E on target

 

Dragon029

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
754
Reaction score
93
The Gripen E is apparently no longer in the running for the Swiss fighter replacement program:

SAAB put out this press release today: https://saabgroup.com/media/news-press/news/2019-06/saab-not-attending-swiss-flight-tests/

The Swiss defence procurement agency, armasuisse, has formally recommended to Saab not to participate with Gripen E in the upcoming flight tests in Switzerland.
...
the Gripen E development plan does not match the Swiss plan to perform flight tests with aircraft that are operationally ready in 2019. Therefore, Saab has decided not to attend the Swiss flight tests in Payerne 24-28 June.
...
As Gripen E is yet to become operational, Saab has presented solutions to perform the Swiss flight tests in 2019. An offer to complement the Gripen E test aircraft with an operational Gripen C aircraft for the flight tests in June 2019 has not been accepted by armasuisse.

The Switzerland MoD have since released this statement, which confirms that the Gripen E will have to be excluded from the competition: https://www.vtg.admin.ch/content/vt...medienmitteilungen.detail.nsb.html/75184.html
Google translate: http://translate.google.com/transla...g-internet/de/home.detail.nsb.html/75390.html

With the non-participation in the flight and soil testing Gripen E leaves the evaluation process. Retrofitting the flight and ground testing at a later stage would contradict equal treatment of all candidates and is not an option.

Since the beginning of 2018, armasuisse has been in regular contact with all applicants and has shown both the process and the criteria. Based on current information and analyzes on the degree of maturity and the integration of the subsystems, specialists from armasuisse and the Swiss Air Force came to the conclusion that several of the planned missions could not be carried out expediently. For this reason, armasuisse Saab has recommended that it withdraw from the evaluation. Apparently, Saab also came to the conclusion in a separate estimate not to participate in the flight and ground trials.

The following four candidates will remain in the evaluation:
• Airbus with the Eurofighter (DE)
• Boeing with the F/A-18 Super Hornet (USA)
• Dassault with the Rafale (FRA)
• Lockheed Martin with the F-35A (USA)
 

Similar threads

Top