• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Rutan, Rutan Aircraft Factory and Scaled Composites Project List

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
324
Hi all,

anybody of you know a complete list from Rutan/Scaled Composites? ???
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,399
Reaction score
1,441
Ironically here is a pretty good list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,475
Reaction score
203
Parent company: Northrop Grumman

That's interesting. I always thought it was an independent company.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
For those who may not know my website, here's the list of Rutan projects I uploaded three years ago. It needs some editing but it's the most complete so far anywhere.
 

Attachments

  • RUTAN & SCALED models.pdf
    117.9 KB · Views: 49

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,047
Reaction score
875
the best list so far by forum member Steven A. Bowmore aka Stargazer2006

http://stargazer2006.online.fr/designs.pdf
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,047
Reaction score
875
some add-ons and corrections according to new Scaled site:

SpaceShipTwo - Model 339
White Knight Two ('Eve') - Model 348
 

Attachments

  • projects.jpg
    projects.jpg
    56.4 KB · Views: 259

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Oh I see... It's the old file that's online! :eek:

The new one (done a couple of years ago, but still more recent than the 2006 version) is attached here.
 

Attachments

  • RUTAN & SCALED models (updated).pdf
    68.6 KB · Views: 51

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Please note also that some designations are speculative at best and were "obtained" from looking at the civil registrations (which very often contain the model numbers in Rutan's case) and finding they fitted quite nicely into the time sequence. So please be wary of:
- "Model 70"
- "Model 241"
- "Model 300"
 

Machdiamond

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
326
Reaction score
9
Did you notice that Scaled updated their website recently?
For some reason the list of projects now includes Model 97, the microlight.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
If I knew how to set about doing that and had the right contacts, I would gladly volunteer... ;)
 

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
You may well already be aware of this, but just in case not ..., there's a complete set of back issues of the Canard Pusher (ie the RAF newsletter) available on-line at: http://www.cozybuilders.org/Canard_Pusher/. May be helpful tracking down some odd bits of info about Rutan designs, history etc.

There's also a single text file containing the contexts of about the first 20 years worth to make searching easier ;D
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Thanks, FSS! I actually knew all about it and even downloaded the stuff a long time ago... but just in case others don't, thanks for this most useful reminder!
 

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
SaturnCanuck said:
Has anyone ever done a "putnam-style" book on Rutan's works?

Along similar lines, I've often thought that it would be fantastic to have a book that not only contained details of all Burt's designs that have actually flown but also a selection of his innovative ideas that never got off the page. In particular having discussion of how he selected design features to address the requirements for particular projects would be amazing. A sort of aircraft designers guide.

Stargazer2006 said:
If I knew how to set about doing that and had the right contacts, I would gladly volunteer... ;)

In terms of contacts, I wonder if anyone at Scaled is on this forum?! (or maybe people on this forum know people at Scaled and can drop hints ;))

Probably all we can hope for is that Burt himself decides he'd like to see things recorded more accessably for posterity. IMHO it would be a fitting tribute to a very illustrious career.

Only trouble is Burt is still a bit too busy to get around to such things and his career seems to have quite a few years to go yet!
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,198
Reaction score
31
Stargazer2006 said:
Oh I see... It's the old file that's online! :eek:

The new one (done a couple of years ago, but still more recent than the 2006 version) is attached here.

Which one of those projects is the one Rutan referred to as "Manta"?
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
SOC said:
Which one of those projects is the one Rutan referred to as "Manta"?

Hmmm... I don't know. Don't think I heard about this. Any source? By finding the complete quote and approximate date, we could perhaps bring the list down to a handful of possible candidates... unless it's something totally different of course.

On a different note (but...), there are two projects that I know of carrying the word "Manta": Teledyne Ryan's Model 262 was a UAV prototype called "Manta Ray", back in the 1970s; and Northrop allegedly had a TR-3A reconnaissance aircraft dubbed "Manta" by the press back in the late 1980s. Now considering the fact that Rutan did quite a bit of work with Northrop, notably a B-2 RCS model, perhaps the idea that he could have built a sub-scale flying article for it is not impossible...
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,198
Reaction score
31
AirForces Monthly did a special called X-Planes2...The Next Generation back in late 2000. Nothing earth-shattering, basically a look at future technology from 2000's perspective. Anyway, there is a piece on SENIOR CITIZEN. Scaled Composites apparently built an RCS pole model called "Manta" for Northrop with a clipped diamond-delta wing after 1981. It was based on the original B-2 design without the outer wing panels. The article also claims that there is a model of a white triangular object in Burt Rutan's Mojave office, which they refer to as "Manta". Different, but related, to the Northrop "Manta" from the early 80's. The implication is that the Northrop design (which Scaled built the RCS model for) became SENIOR CITIZEN, and the Scaled design is something pretty similar but not quite the same. If the article is right, find info or an image of Rutan's model, and you've got a much better idea of what SENIOR CITIZEN should theoretically look like.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
SOC said:
AirForces Monthly did a special called X-Planes2...The Next Generation back in late 2000. Nothing earth-shattering, basically a look at future technology from 2000's perspective. Anyway, there is a piece on SENIOR CITIZEN. Scaled Composites apparently built an RCS pole model called "Manta" for Northrop with a clipped diamond-delta wing after 1981. It was based on the original B-2 design without the outer wing panels. The article also claims that there is a model of a white triangular object in Burt Rutan's Mojave office, which they refer to as "Manta". Different, but related, to the Northrop "Manta" from the early 80's. The implication is that the Northrop design (which Scaled built the RCS model for) became SENIOR CITIZEN, and the Scaled design is something pretty similar but not quite the same. If the article is right, find info or an image of Rutan's model, and you've got a much better idea of what SENIOR CITIZEN should theoretically look like.

Very interesting, and totally in line with my inclusion of SENIOR CITIZEN among Rutan's projects. Thanks for that piece of info! Now if only I could get someone to send me a pic of that model... ::)
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,198
Reaction score
31
Yeah, the magazine didn't have an image of the model. I've never been able to find one, either!
 

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
I haven't seen listed Burt's orbital vehicle and space station model numbers (as seen in the Black Sky documentary).

The following are seen/mentioned in the documentary:
  • 340: docked to space station
  • 341: docked to space station
  • 342: fixed [ie non-rotating] space hotel
  • 343: spinning space hotel - 0.2g at ring, based on von Braun's design
  • 344: on orbit transfer veh[icle] between two space stations

My additional speculation is:
  • 340: looks like capsule to me; maybe cargo or escape pod?
  • 341: seems to have twin tail booms; orbital SS3 or SS4?
  • 344: there's an additional hard to read note that ends '... small thrusters'?

It's wonderful to imagine that any of these may one day be built, but the realist in me thinks they'll remain on paper (unless Burt/Scaled can solve the remaining orbital challenges and someone funds it).
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Thanks for these additions which I wasn't aware of! I will update the file accordingly.
 

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
You're welcome! I must admit I had to watch the documentary several times before I realised that there are model numbers on the paper, as they're only on screen briefly. Like flateric I had to get a screen grab to read it.

BTW for anyone else reading this, if you haven't seen the two Black Sky documentaries they are well worth a look. Probably the only DVDs (of any sort) I own that I've watched many times.
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,047
Reaction score
875

Attachments

  • rutan3.jpg
    rutan3.jpg
    50.6 KB · Views: 293
  • rutan2.jpg
    rutan2.jpg
    243.4 KB · Views: 295
  • rutan1.jpg
    rutan1.jpg
    129.7 KB · Views: 288

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
flateric said:
I think that everyone will enjoy this Burt's NDIA presentation

You're not wrong ;D Wow! Great find, thank you.

A lot of the material overlaps Burt's well-known TED talk, but the pictures you've picked out are particularly interesting:

  • The first is one of those seen in the Black Sky documentary
  • I wonder if the second is a design for a capsule recovery craft in Burt's early X-prize days when he was still thinking of a capsule?
    (although I thought he was actually hoping for a mid-air helicopter capture ...)
    Did he work on a design for someone else perhaps?
  • The third looks like a better image of the CLA discussed in another thread
 

RanulfC

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
926
Reaction score
374
The "capsule" seen in the first image docking with the space station, and seen being "caught" by a boat in the second image is the Boeing "capsule" design that ended up being given to LockMart to design and build as the Orion.
The pictures are of the "original" design from Boeing for the "Orbital Space Plane" program where the LEO version has no "service-module" one would normally think of and instead has a very basic "Propulsion-ring" attached below the heat shield.

Everyone thought that Boeing was coming out of "left-field" by proposing a capsule for the OSP but Boeing's logic for doing so, ie: that going from the OSP requirments documentation and NASA flight rate and usage guidlines a "capsule" more fit what NASA was actually REQUESTING than trying to cram things into a "lifting" vehicle airframe, was by the end of the OSP program finally admited and accepted by all participants.

A note on the "Orbital SS-3/4": From what Burt has been saying in the last couple of years he is no longer looking at an SS-flip tail design for sub-orbital Point-To-Point or for Orbital travel as (according to his statements) the "feather" won't work at high supersonic/hypersonic or reentry speeds. Not sure WHY he said this as he hasn't ever explained the statement though.

Randy
 

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
Thanks for the Orion background.

RanulfC said:
A note on the "Orbital SS-3/4": From what Burt has been saying in the last couple of years he is no longer looking at an SS-flip tail design for sub-orbital Point-To-Point or for Orbital travel as (according to his statements) the "feather" won't work at high supersonic/hypersonic or reentry speeds. Not sure WHY he said this as he hasn't ever explained the statement though.

I'd assumed (but obviously may be wrong ...) that the "feather" may work, purely in terms of orienting the vehicle, but that the amount of kinetic energy to lose is so much higher than suborbital that even a higher-drag configuration still results in very high re-entry temperatures (and maybe high G-forces on occupants?).
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
I noticed something interesting: for the first time an official Scaled document acknowledges AND illustrates the two prototypes done for Toyota, the Lima 1 and the TAA-1 !
 

Attachments

  • Scaled's Aircraft.jpg
    Scaled's Aircraft.jpg
    189.7 KB · Views: 351

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Stargazer2006 said:
I noticed something interesting: for the first time an official Scaled document acknowledges AND illustrates the two prototypes done for Toyota, the Lima 1 and the TAA-1 !

Sorry about the typo, I meant Lima II, not Lima I. The Lima I was a modified Piper Aztec which has never been seen in photo form to the best of my knowledge.
 

RanulfC

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
926
Reaction score
374
FutureSpaceTourist said:
Thanks for the Orion background.

RanulfC said:
A note on the "Orbital SS-3/4": From what Burt has been saying in the last couple of years he is no longer looking at an SS-flip tail design for sub-orbital Point-To-Point or for Orbital travel as (according to his statements) the "feather" won't work at high supersonic/hypersonic or reentry speeds. Not sure WHY he said this as he hasn't ever explained the statement though.

I'd assumed (but obviously may be wrong ...) that the "feather" may work, purely in terms of orienting the vehicle, but that the amount of kinetic energy to lose is so much higher than suborbital that even a higher-drag configuration still results in very high re-entry temperatures (and maybe high G-forces on occupants?).
...And NOW you know my frustrations ;D I can't think of much else other than the wings, being orientated "into-the-wind" so to speak would experiance higher heating loads because of the thinner/sharper leading edges. SS-2 has "addressed" my concerns with the "high-wing" design by having a "low-wing" design but it still doesn't actualy fly much faster than SS-1 overall so maybe it's something that only shows up on higher speed reentries? I just don't know.

Randy
 

Machdiamond

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
326
Reaction score
9

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
Thanks for the link, hadn't seen that interview. There's another revealing passage:

[quote author=Burt Rutan]
And that [SpaceShipOne] was the last airplane that I did almost all of the CAD drawings for. [...] I shy away from that in my plan to establish a whole new generation of people who do that—other than me. So SpaceShipOne was the last airplane that I designed, really.

I did concept design on the ones after that. But White Knight and SpaceShipOne were my last designs. [...] SpaceShipTwo is not a Burt Rutan design.
[/quote]

Which provides a bit more background to other statements Burt has made (for example, about Bob Morgan's contribution to WK2/SS2).

I wonder how long it will be before Rutan model numbers really become just Scaled numbers?
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,047
Reaction score
875
enjoy

http://rps3.com/Files/Ochkosh_2010_talks/Long-EZ%20History.pdf
http://rps3.com/Files/Ochkosh_2010_talks/Innovation.creativity.Motivating%20Kids.pdf
http://rps3.com/Files/Ochkosh_2010_talks/Commercial%20Space.future%20opportunities.pdf
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
161
Ha Ha! the second presentation has this quote:

The education statistics are bleak.
– Science/engineering vs. lawyers/media/politicians/actors*
* And other criminals

So typical of Rutan. I was once at a design symposium and Rutan was commenting on a student presentation of an airliner. He told the students to be innovative, maybe try staggered seating like in his boomerang. An airline manager in the audience quipped that the FAA and lawyers would never let him do that, to which he said "Then kill all the lawyers!" :)
 
S

sublight

Guest
Wasn't Burt supposed to reveal his very last design, a plane for himself? I didn't see that happen anywhere....
 

FutureSpaceTourist

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
589
Reaction score
13
sublight said:
Wasn't Burt supposed to reveal his very last design, a plane for himself? I didn't see that happen anywhere....

I think it's rare for Burt to do that before it's fully built, if not flying!
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Going through the detail of the great PDF files linked further above, I came across these interesting images of Models 342, 343 and 344:
 

Attachments

  • Model 342.jpg
    Model 342.jpg
    344.4 KB · Views: 112
  • Model 342 dome.jpg
    Model 342 dome.jpg
    362.2 KB · Views: 94
  • Models 342-343-344.jpg
    Models 342-343-344.jpg
    530.5 KB · Views: 93

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Another document presents thumbnails of all manned aircraft test-flown by Scaled Composites between the company's creation and 2009. I have reworked the image to include the captions and updated it to include SpaceShipTwo, which hadn't yet been flown at the time of the presentation. Please note my speculative caption for what I believe to be the Task Vantage (jet-powered Long-EZ) prototype.
 

Attachments

  • Scaled 2 with captions.jpg
    Scaled 2 with captions.jpg
    406.2 KB · Views: 155

Similar threads

Top