Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES

flateric

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One of most aesthetically appealing and meantime strangest Rutan's design - rarely seen two-seat version of it (Model 151-4). Drawings (c) Scaled Composites
 

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yasotay

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Thanks flateric,

I have always wondered if there had been consideration of a two seat version of the ARES. I have pondered of late, with all the discussion ongoing over a COIN aircraft how the design would have done to meet the emerging requirement. If memory serves it had a decent payload for its size and it was highly maneuverable as well. I would assume it would have had a relatively low maintenance requirement as well.
 

CFE

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Too bad ARES won't be in consideration for the new CAS aircraft for the Iraqi Air Force.
 

TinWing

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flateric said:
One of most aesthetically appealing and meantime strangest Rutan's design - rarely seen two-seat version of it (Model 151-4).
As I recollect, only the single ARES prototype was ever built?

I do find it interesting that the two seater would have retained the assymetrical intake - and possibly even GAU-12 gun?

It is worth pondering whether this ARES derivative would been a serious JPATS contender if the off-the-shelf requirement had been relaxed?
 

yasotay

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I am speculating somewhat here, but I think that the program was started as a US Army project and the USAF had nothing to do with it. The USAF having a slight phobia at Army projects (especially fixed wing projects) (not speculation), doomed it to a one aircraft demonstration. I would be interested to have more than something of 'urban legend' on the program, is there a site or another thread with more information?
 

Michel Van

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Model 151 called Agile Responsive Effective Support or short ARES

1981 the United States Army requested that a study be undertaken for a LCBAA or low cost battlefield attack aircraft.

with other word ARES is low cost A-10 Thunderbolt II !

can it be that Two Seat ARES is a Counter-insurgency (COIN) Aircraft ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency#COIN_Aircraft
2 men crew, pilot and observer

other COIN Aircraft
OV-10 Bronco
O-2 Skymaster ( Cessna 337 Super Skymaster)
FMA IA 58 Pucará
A-37 Dragonfly
have two men Crew.
 

raravia

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What a Sad history my friends, I like very much this design, I think it´s a wonderful solution for the increasing cost of the combat aircraft.

But the rivalry between the US ARMY and USAF and US NAVY is a very old history.

Saludos
 

Just call me Ray

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I know the Army's been asking for additional air support options, maybe someone decided the ARES concept was worth investigating again.
 

flateric

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Just call me Ray said:
I know the Army's been asking for additional air support options, maybe someone decided the ARES concept was worth investigating again.
seems that you just haven't read the article)))
 

Just call me Ray

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I did. It doesn't say anything about B-2 testing specifically, or about any specific program. Either that, or I guess the B-2 has a much smaller radar than I thought.

EDIT: Unless it's in the box structure under the wing. Still seems kinda small, but the planform seems to closely match a B-2's nose. Still, I have to wonder why did they drag the ARES out for this then.
 

yasotay

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Just call me Ray said:
I know the Army's been asking for additional air support options, maybe someone decided the ARES concept was worth investigating again.
Nope
 

quellish

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Just call me Ray said:
I did. It doesn't say anything about B-2 testing specifically, or about any specific program. Either that, or I guess the B-2 has a much smaller radar than I thought.

EDIT: Unless it's in the box structure under the wing. Still seems kinda small, but the planform seems to closely match a B-2's nose. Still, I have to wonder why did they drag the ARES out for this then.
Dimensions on the downward facing panels are about right for the B-2 radar antennas
 

flateric

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Actually, why we'd think that these are new B-2 radar tests?
 

XP67_Moonbat

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Perhaps...just perhaps, could it be that maybe they want to test a battlefield radar? Maybe using adapted B-2 gear. It's just my two cents worth, here. Hey, BAe had a mini-AWACS version of it's proposed SABA battlefield jet as seen in BRITISH SECRET PROJECTS: HYPERSONICS.

Maybe the Army over here is thinking the same thing.

Then again, maybe it's just a simple testbed for radars.

Moonbat
 

fightingirish

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Turbofan Killer Bee: Rutan ARES "Mudfighter" for U.S. Army Close Air Support B)
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9LlHcX8lg
 

AeroFranz

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Awesome video. Is that me or does the aircraft's nose get thrown around a bit from the recoil? You'd think you'd be limited to short bursts if that were the case. Does anyone have any more info on this?
 

Michel Van

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Its sad they U.S. Army has not taken ARES

it had be nasty littel devil on battlefields ;D
 

robunos

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Its sad they U.S. Army has not taken ARES
problem is the USAF won't let them take the mission, but USAF don't want the mission themselves...

cheers,
Robin.
 

Kadija_Man

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AeroFranz said:
Awesome video. Is that me or does the aircraft's nose get thrown around a bit from the recoil? You'd think you'd be limited to short bursts if that were the case. Does anyone have any more info on this?
Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight. Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
 

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yasotay

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fightingirish said:
Scaled Composites ARES 151 jet in a new low-vis flat grey paint job, slightly modified (more rounded) lines and and a few more (new?) antennae.
Link: http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com/2011/12/rare-scaled-composites-ares-151-jet.html
Um... the same US Navy that tested the Turcano? ARES is probably fairly easy to build, uses a widely available engine and does not have any of those sooo 20th Century props. Wonder if there is any interest in the concept again.

Well it makes me smile at least.
 

Stargazer2006

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Could this "resurrection" of the ARES have anything to do with the following?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7555.msg134847.html#msg134847
 

yasotay

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A less exciting but more probable course of action if it is indeed going to Pax River is that the Navy Test Pilot School may be renting the aircraft to allow students and instructors to try out an aircraft with some very nice flying qualities. It is my understanding they do barrow varied aircraft now and again to make things a bit more interesting.

Update: Super Turcano won the USAF competition so unless the USN has continued its own effort, my hypothesis above seems on firmer ground.
 

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Does anyone know of a walkaround series of photos for this aircraft? Or even a cockpit shot?
 

Stargazer2006

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Splendid model! Is it custom-made or to be released by a model company soon?
 

Walker

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Thank you!
Yes it is the master model for casting. Long been in unfinished form. I try to understand, it makes sense to finish and cast kit? What do you think?
The quality of castings will be something like:
 

Stargazer2006

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Walker said:
Yes it is the master model for casting. Long been in unfinished form. I try to understand, it makes sense to finish and cast kit? What do you think?
I'm not the best person to judge since I never worked on resin models before, only plastic... But for such a beautiful Rutan-related model such as this ARES, I'd be willing to have a go. Any idea of the unit price, even approximative?
 

Walker

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Price near U.S. $ 30. With clear casting canopy. It is cheaper than the Czech manufacturers for example.
 

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Kadija_Man said:
AeroFranz said:
Awesome video. Is that me or does the aircraft's nose get thrown around a bit from the recoil? You'd think you'd be limited to short bursts if that were the case. Does anyone have any more info on this?
Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight. Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
They put the nose gear assymetrically in A-10 to avoid these problems ARES experienced and rotary cannon in the middle.
 

quellish

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topspeed3 said:
Kadija_Man said:
Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight. Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
They put the nose gear assymetrically in A-10 to avoid these problems ARES experienceda and rotary cannon in the middle.
ARES was designed with asymmetry as well to offset recoil. Engine thrust and gun gas were both intended to provide recoil compensation, and the engine was mounted on the opposite side of the fuselage from the gun to prevent gun gas ingestion.
 

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fightingirish said:
Turbofan Killer Bee: Rutan ARES "Mudfighter" for U.S. Army Close Air Support B)
Video:
quellish said:
topspeed3 said:
Kadija_Man said:
Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight. Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
They put the nose gear assymetrically in A-10 to avoid these problems ARES experienceda and rotary cannon in the middle.
ARES was designed with asymmetry as well to offset recoil. Engine thrust and gun gas were both intended to provide recoil compensation, and the engine was mounted on the opposite side of the fuselage from the gun to prevent gun gas ingestion.
That is correct, but when you see this video closely it was not enuf..plane goes like crazy bronco once they start firing ( at 07:55 of the video ).



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zG9LlHcX8lg
 

perttime

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Better hang some small missiles on it, and leave the gun for a backup only. Brimstone?
 

Abraham Gubler

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topspeed3 said:
That is correct, but when you see this video closely it was not enuf..plane goes like crazy bronco once they start firing ( at 07:55 of the video ).
Yet all the rounds land on target. Engineers: 1, Internet: 0.
 
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