Rooikat Armoured Car

[JFC Fuller]

Oto-melara were still offering a 60mm gun up until recently, it was actually installed on the Polish BWP-2000.

 

[Herman]

Abraham, you are quite right. The original prototypes of the TAM were indeed armed with the L7 gun. Production versions were however armed with a lower recoiling Rheinmetall derivative known as the Rh 105-30. Rheinmetall offers 5 versions of the gun, all capable of firing all NATO type ammunition: the Rh 105-60, Rh 105-40, Rh 105-30, Rh 105-20 and the Rh 105-11. The number at the end of the designation refers to the nominal maximum recoil in tons. The recoil impulse for the various versions is decreased by increasing the recoil langth of the gun and for the 2 lowest recoiling versions, muzzle brakes are added. The French fitted a NATO compatible 105mm gun to the AMX 30 in the early sixties, the CN105F1 gun. The prototypes of the AMX 30 only weighed about 32 tons. The French gun had a longer maximum recoil distance than the British L7 however (385mm vs 280mm).

At the time of the development of the Rooikat, the South Africans had simply not developed a low-recoil version of the L7 and it was not needed. It was quite clear that the Oto 76mm based gun would be more than adequate for combating T34, T54, T55, T62 and even early versions of the T72 under the relatively close range condtions of the African bush. A 105mm gun version of the Rooikat only become relevant in the nineties when the requirement to sell the car arose. At that time there was a number of cars available sporting the large gun, foremost amongst them the Italian Centauro. The Rooikat with its proprietary gun and a single source of ammuntion was unsellable, aside from the fact that it was seen as undergunned.

 

[Herman]

Oto-melara were still offering a 60mm gun up until recently, it was actually installed on the Polish BWP-2000.

The Isrealis still offer the HVMS 60 gun as well. They have sold it to Chile or Argentina, Chile I think, who used it to upgun their Sherman tanks.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

South African tv news from the unveiling of the Rooikat:

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNQoa36Mw8w&fmt=18[/flash]

 

[kaiserbill]

This newly uploaded vid is the best, most comprehensive video of the Rooikat I've seen so far. It includes brief footage of the other vehicles used in the Rooikat trials, such as the 6x6 vehicle, original 8x8 vehicle, and the very large 8x8 Bismark. This video was uploaded last week by playtym from MP.net, and appears to be from around the late 1980's timeframe or thereabouts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8apUALybxWQ

 

[Herman]

Marvelous video! Some of the 10% (by weight or cost?) not made in SA sat in the driveline. The V10 Mercedes engine was definitely not completely built in SA and although the transmission was probably assembled in SA, many of the components would have been imported.

 

[JFC Fuller]

Herman,

I thought that might be the case, I would assume that most of the automotive components would not have fallen directly under the arms embargo.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I thought that might be the case, I would assume that most of the automotive components would not have fallen directly under the arms embargo.

The West Germans were very loose with the embargo and things like engines and transmissions could always be exported under 'civil heavy engineering' useage. Even if it was a high powered diesel engine that is only used in fast attack missile boats or armoured cars.

 

[JFC Fuller]

The West Germans were very loose with the embargo and things like engines and transmissions could always be exported under 'civil heavy engineering' useage. Even if it was a high powered diesel engine that is only used in fast attack missile boats or armoured cars.

The West german approach is well known, note Type 209 plans that found their way to RSA.

 

[Herman]

I thought that might be the case, I would assume that most of the automotive components would not have fallen directly under the arms embargo.

Atlantis Diesel Engines (ADE) built Perkins and Mercedes engines, under licence. The Perkins units were inline 3, 4 and 6 cylinder units up to 5.8 liters. The Mercedes engines were similar inline units up to 5.6 liters and bigger inline 5 and 6 cylinder engines of 9.5 and 11.4 liters respectively. The air-cooled Deutz engines used so prolifically in the SAMIL trucks were not manufactured in SA, only assembled by "Deutz Dieselpower" in Natal. The 6 cylinder inline, 6.1 liter, air-cooled, Deutz F6L913 engine used in the mark 1 version of the SAMIL 20 was replaced by a 6 cylinder, inline, water-cooled ADE (Mercedes) engine of 5.6 liters in the mark 2.
The 9.6 liter, V6, air-cooled, Deutz F6L413 used in the SAMIL 50 mark 1 was replaced by an inline, 5 cylinder, water-cooled, ADE (Mercedes) diesel of 9.5 liters in the mark 2.
The SAMIL 100 was powered by an air-cooled, V10, Deutz engine of 16 liters. It was never replaced because ADE did not manufacture a suitable unit. The G6 was powered by the biggest of the Deutz units, the turbocharged and intercooled BF12L413C of 518 horsepower, as was the LZN.

The V10 engine used by the Rooikat was imported, either as a short block and completed in SA with (imported) turbochargers, generators, diesel pump, etc. or, more likely, was simply imported completely assembled. As Abraham says, the engines and transmissions were basically COTS items although in practice they were rarely used outside the military.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

In terms of armoured vehicle development the West Germans provided extensive direct support to the SADF during the 1980s. This included entire AFV designs for Rooikat and Ratel replacement proposals, engines, transmissions and a large number of tank components for the TTD. They also provided the SADF will high value items like the Milan ATGMs.

 

[Herman]

Reply to post nr 52
They also provided the SADF will high value items like the Milan ATGMs.

I wondered where SA got there Milans from. My guess was France or possibly Israel.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Reply to post nr 52
They also provided the SADF will high value items like the Milan ATGMs.

I wondered where SA got there Milans from. My guess was France or possibly Israel.

Initial batch in the early 1970s were from France and then further supplies from West Germany.

 

[kaiserbill]

At around 7:25 on that video, that large 8x8 Bismark "wheeled tank" is shown crossing a ditch or trench. I've had a look at the turret in this footage, and it is neither the Olifant Mk1B, nor the TTD turret. The Bismark in the Armour museum has an Olifant Mk1B turret fitted to it.
Anybody know anything then about this original 105mm Bismark turret?

 

[JFC Fuller]

I agree that it looks like a bespoke turret- in hindsight it is not surprising given how awkward the turret currently on the Bismark looks. The one in the video does have some resemblance to the TTD turret- especially the front

 

[Rooikat76]

Hi guys

I was a gunner in the Rooikat and can tell you that we pushed the car far beyond what the stats say it can do (made for some interesting situations at times).
there is not much i can expand on with regards to what the vehicle itself is able to do, but i can tell you abit about the fcs of the Kat, as well as the ammo lay out.

I was stationed at 1SSB then half way through my service i was transfered to 61mech. bat. at No.5 army battle school in 1993.

 

[Tony Williams]

South Africa was producing ammunition for the 76/62 Oto Melara gun at that time. The Rooikat gun was closely based on the Italian weapon, including the same 62 calibre barrel length and the same cartridge case. Instead of percussion primed, the Rooikat ammuntion was electrically primed however. All that really had to be developed was the APFSDS round. This was almost certainly done with the cooperation of IMI (Israel) and/or Oto Melara. At the time the South African gun was developed, IMI and Oto Melara were also cooperating on another gun based on the 76/62 Oto round, in this case necked down to 60mm.

A couple of comments on the ammunition:

Rooikat 76mm rounds have now been developed with combustible cases, with just a stub metal base, as in the 120mm smoothbore tank guns.

The 60mm OTO/IMI ammunition is not that closely related. The rim diameter of the 76mm is 114mm, that of the 60mm is 104mm. I have examples of both cases in my collection.

And finally, another prototype 8x8 AFV with the 76mm OTO gun, only this time in autoloading form and primarily intended for air defence:

 

[Rickshaw]

Do you have any details on the radar(s) fit?

 

[Tony Williams]

This is the only extra info I know of: http://www.otomelara.it/EN/Common/files/OtoMelara/pdf/business/land/Hitfist/DRACO.pdf

 

[Rickshaw]

Thanks. Not much there, really. No mention of what the radar is and how it functions. Is that a Boxer hull it's on?

I find it interesting that its remotely controlled. I assume no mention of what vehicle the controller sits in?

 

[TomS]

Pretty sure it's a Centauro chassis.

As far as remote control, the operators are either in the hull of the same vehicle in AFV applications, or in a separate shelter for fixed applications.

The antenna belongs to a Ka-band radar/illuminator from SELEX Galileo that provides both target tracking and a command link for DART (which is basically a beam-rider). Depending on what source you read, the term Davide either refers to the radar/illuminator or to the whole complex.

http://www.janes.com/events/exhibitions/idex-2011/news/day-1/High-tech-defence-from-Oto-Melara.aspx

http://selex-galileo.production.investis.com/~/media/Files/S/Selex-Galileo/newsroom/press-releases/2009/28-07-2009/SG-PRESSRELEASE-FREMM-newcontracts-ENG-DEF.pdf

 

[Rickshaw]

So, no search radar?

I'd assumed that "remote control" meant, well controlled remotely from outside the vehicle.

 

[kaiserbill]

Hi guys

I was a gunner in the Rooikat and can tell you that we pushed the car far beyond what the stats say it can do (made for some interesting situations at times).
there is not much i can expand on with regards to what the vehicle itself is able to do, but i can tell you abit about the fcs of the Kat, as well as the ammo lay out.

I was stationed at 1SSB then half way through my service i was transfered to 61mech. bat. at No.5 army battle school in 1993.

I'd heard that it was capable of travelling faster than its advertised top speed of 120km/h on tarred roads?
There was mention being made that on the tarred national highway outside Bloemfontein that speeds of 140km/h plus were reached?

 

[TomS]

So, no search radar?

I'd assumed that "remote control" meant, well controlled remotely from outside the vehicle.

Search is probably networked, as is so typical these days.


When talking about AFV turrets, "remote control" often means just that the crew is not actually inside the turret. OTOH, the fact that it can be run from a separate shelter in the containerized version means that off-vehicle remote control is probably feasible if there were some reason to do so.

 

[kaiserbill]

Hi guys

I was a gunner in the Rooikat and can tell you that we pushed the car far beyond what the stats say it can do (made for some interesting situations at times).
there is not much i can expand on with regards to what the vehicle itself is able to do, but i can tell you abit about the fcs of the Kat, as well as the ammo lay out.

I was stationed at 1SSB then half way through my service i was transfered to 61mech. bat. at No.5 army battle school in 1993.

I should have said : Welcome Aboard!

Can you elaborate further on the FCS and ammunition layout?

What sort of ranges were typically practiced, and what was the furthest practical range you shot out to?

 

[Rooikat76]

Kaiserbill hi there

the ammo layout was just behind the driver on the left and right of the Kat was storage for rounds as well as on the hull on the left and right and then there is space on the engine
firewall for 5 rounds, to get to the ammo the turrent had to be at the 12o'clock position or there was not enough space to get the rounds through, due to the protective guards on the
turrent. And in the turrent there was 9 ready rounds just off to the front left of the loader just below the machine gun.

the FCS on the Kat had two mainframe computers that where situated on the rear of the turrent, to the right of the gunner was the input system where you could pick what round was
going to be fired so if it was an HE you would push the HE button and there was a button for every round as we all should know every type of round travels differently. It also had a small
display that would give you relevent info as needed. Once you lazered on to a target the system took over and well it was a matter of pull the trigger. there was a display on in the sight
that would show you the distance to the target. There was a function that could switch from main gun to machine gun (so instead of using the foot peddle to fire the machine gun you could
use the main gun controlls. The system was designed that a child could use it push botton pull trigger kind of thing

We where shooting at about 2kms and further max range on the fcs was about 8kms (but then you pointing and shooting and then praying at that distance) max range we would shoot out was 5km.
The kat had an accuracy of 98%, 2% human error. Just one thing of interest is that after you fired the gun you would have to move the turrent down and right then bring back on target movement was just a ball
hair in both directions as the motors that moved the turrent would have softened if that is the correct term how do i put this if you fired again without doing that small movement you would
only get a shot on target not a kill if you had to hit it again.

Also the speed of the kat is fast super fast for a thing that big we where doing an escape and evade and where pulled over by the police doing 150kmh on a 60kmh road the poor cop had
idea what to do when he stopped us took us about an hour to get rid of the cop as he wanted to arrest us.

 

[Swart Gevaar]

Subscribed

 

[sa_bushwar]

Spot the difference - 76mm and 105mm...

 

[Graugrun]

Some pics I took at AAD 2012 of CVED - we had just had a quick 20 min thunderstorm, hence the dirt and water on the info boards. They seemed to be calling it the K-9 (project?).

 

[Graugrun]

Another pic of CVED, scanned from the AAD 2012 free daily show magazine.

 

[sa_bushwar]

The MTU engine and battery pack.

 

[Rickshaw]

Quite a big battery pack there. Doesn't it have an APU?

 

[sa_bushwar]

Not really, it is a diesel/electric hybrid. Electric motor on each wheel. Electric mode provides silent operation. Good wheel articulation as can be seen in this picture.

 

[Graugrun]

This should answer most of the questions regards CVED - I assume they mean the 105 mm turret when they talk about testing the medium turret technology demonstrator? More interesting is the revelation that this being developed for an overseas client... Janes IDR March 2006

It's rather eerie to watch it move, being so silent - it sounds like a car being pushed or slowly rolling forward with it's engine switched off, all you hear is the sound of the tyres.

 

[Graugrun]

Brochure on the LMT-105 turret.

 

[compton_effect]

I've been wondering about the function of the loops welded to the turret. Is it for some type of bolt-on or reactive armour?

 

[Graugrun]

I've been wondering about the function of the loops welded to the turret. Is it for some type of bolt-on or reactive armour?

Obviously the Germans used these in WW2 for camouflage purposes (netting, branches, general appropriate folage) - my guess is that it could be we meant it for the same purpose, or perhaps to accommodate some sort of re-active/passive bolt on armour - or perhaps even both (Rooikat76 should be able to clear this up for us).

 

[Jemiba]

Not a specialist for tanks, but they remind me on those handrails and handgrips welded to Soviet
tank turrets during WW II, because infantrymen could mount MBTs then, without the danger of
being pitched.

 

[Graugrun]

A slightly modified version (I believe) of the LMT-105 was supplied as fitted onto the Austrian/Spanish ASCOD light tank to the Royal Thai Marines a good few years ago. The only pics I could find where these poor quality ones off of the net...

 

[CostasTT]

A couple more, also from around the web: