Re: T-72/T-90 upgrade potential

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Anduriel

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I still don't understand why they didn't go for obj. 187 with new upper glacis. Especially when they made T-90M. Considering new turret, they could've made new glacis as weell, removing old and known weakness of T-72/series.
And I doubt that 187 #3 hull variant would me much expensive than 188 hull.
 
Anduriel said:
I still don't understand why they didn't go for obj. 187 with new upper glacis. Especially when they made T-90M. Considering new turret, they could've made new glacis as weell, removing old and known weakness of T-72/series.
And I doubt that 187 #3 hull variant would me much expensive than 188 hull.
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In hindsight yes. That said Obj 187 was also intended to use a new engine so that would have required quite an investment in new tooling even if the new turret itself was already "paid for" with T-90A and T-90M (and arguably part of the engine investment was paid for with V-92 IRL, ignoring the option to even use V-92 or a similar V-XX evolution in a modified 187), so the govt probably still balked at the idea back then, as all that investment would be concentrated in the 90s when the economy was worst.

And by the 90's already UVZ was becoming greedy and less competent, and pretty much deliberately fixed only a few problems at a time to warrant yet another variant and prolong orders and get more R&D money as a result.
 
Elan Vital said:
In hindsight yes. That said Obj 187 was also intended to use a new engine so that would have required quite an investment in new tooling even if the new turret itself was already "paid for" with T-90A and T-90M (and arguably part of the engine investment was paid for with V-92 IRL, ignoring the option to even use V-92 or a similar V-XX evolution in a modified 187), so the govt probably still balked at the idea back then, as all that investment would be concentrated in the 90s when the economy was worst.
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New Engine was from variant #4. Even then, you can have bigger engine compartment and still use old V2-type engine, in fact, it would be a boon, as IIRC V92S2F main limitation in power is first by cooling capacity. Also more psace for better transmisiion etc.

What I meant that you could make a tank with 187 #4-6 hull, but 188 turret and filling. But 187 hull have better protection and allow better upgrade capability.
BTW, 187 $4-6 was supposed use X engine, and what tank currently uses it? You guessed right, T-14. So if they went with 187 #4-6 hull, now they could install T-14 in 187 hull and have 1200+ hp. And increased commonality, thus decreasing logistics footprint.
 
Anduriel said:
Elan Vital said:
In hindsight yes. That said Obj 187 was also intended to use a new engine so that would have required quite an investment in new tooling even if the new turret itself was already "paid for" with T-90A and T-90M (and arguably part of the engine investment was paid for with V-92 IRL, ignoring the option to even use V-92 or a similar V-XX evolution in a modified 187), so the govt probably still balked at the idea back then, as all that investment would be concentrated in the 90s when the economy was worst.
Click to expand...
New Engine was from variant #4. Even then, you can have bigger engine compartment and still use old V2-type engine, in fact, it would be a boon, as IIRC V92S2F main limitation in power is first by cooling capacity. Also more psace for better transmisiion etc.

What I meant that you could make a tank with 187 #4-6 hull, but 188 turret and filling. But 187 hull have better protection and allow better upgrade capability.
BTW, 187 $4-6 was supposed use X engine, and what tank currently uses it? You guessed right, T-14. So if they went with 187 #4-6 hull, now they could install T-14 in 187 hull and have 1200+ hp. And increased commonality, thus decreasing logistics footprint.
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True, absolutely. In fact a hull with extra room could accomodate the second turbocharger necessary to boost the engine to 1250 or even maybe 1500hp. The existing T-72/90 hull can already use a hydromechanical transmission.

Alternatively they could have made side transmissions with the gear ratios and number of gears optimized for the V-92 rather than the 5TD (same transmission as T-64). This would reduce the number of gears and gear changes and/or increase top speed, allow a higher reverse speed in single gear (and turn on the spot), or even higher reverse speeds if an inverter is fitted in the existing empty space. And the BKPs could also get automatic gear change systems as tested for the T-64 to further reduce driver effort. Hydrostatic steering drives were also tested in the T-90.

Overall even the T-90 still has substantial room for improvement on the automotive side, so ditto for early Object 187s, and even moreso with the bigger late Obj 187 hull.
 

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