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Owl as ideal aerodynamic shape

flateric

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sferrin

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Where's the radar go? :D
 

aim9xray

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Oooh. Not getting transonic. No way. No how.

Nope.
 

robunos

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nature's stealth flyer...


cheers,
Robin.
 

AeroFranz

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Flateric, you forgot to post your references! ;)
Is that a Screech Owl?
 

zen

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One of the wonders of the world an owl in flight.

Dead silent...well dead for the mouse or vole anyway.
 

mz

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Starts resembling the large Reynolds number airships, also called "carrot"...
 

flateric

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weapons delivery


 

Abraham Gubler

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Colonial-Marine said:
That thing will never fly!
Which reminds me of the urban myth that a bee can't fly according to aerodynamics...

The "science has proved that bees can't fly" urban myth originated in a 1934 book by entomologist Antoine Magnan, who discussed a mathematical equation by Andre Sainte-Lague, an engineer. The equation proved that the maximum lift for an aircraft's wings could not be achieved at equivalent speeds of a bee. I.e., an airplane the size of a bee, moving as slowly as a bee, could not fly. Although this did not mean a bee can't fly (which after all does not have stationary wings like the posited teency aircraft), nevertheless the idea that Magnan's book said bees oughtn't be able to fly began to spread.

It spread at first as a joke in European universities, at Sainte-Lague's & Magnan's expense. But later it became a "fact" among the gullible or the uneducated not smart enough to get the joke.
http://www.paghat.com/beeflight.html
 

saintkatanalegacy

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well, the owl's face is shaped like that in order to act like a sonar receiver...

eyes are arranged for hunter's binocular vision
 

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AeroFranz

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Personally I like this version of the urban myth:

"According to the theory of aerodynamics, the bumble bee is unable to fly. This is because the size, weight and shape of its body in relation to the total wing spread make flying impossible. But the bumble bee, being ignorant of these profound scientific truths, goes ahead and flies anyway and also manages to make a little honey every day."
I'd have to go look at my low-Reynolds aerodynamics books, but IIRC part of the 'unaccounted' lift comes from some wing interaction with vortex shedding at the tips after each flap motion, something very hard to model.
 

Sundog

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AeroFranz said:
Personally I like this version of the urban myth:

"According to the theory of aerodynamics, the bumble bee is unable to fly. This is because the size, weight and shape of its body in relation to the total wing spread make flying impossible. But the bumble bee, being ignorant of these profound scientific truths, goes ahead and flies anyway and also manages to make a little honey every day."
I'd have to go look at my low-Reynolds aerodynamics books, but IIRC part of the 'unaccounted' lift comes from some wing interaction with vortex shedding at the tips after each flap motion, something very hard to model.
Actually, I believe we have finally defined how insects, such as the bee, fly. I think it was determined as part of the research into micro-air vehicles, since the military basically wants insect like UAV's for spying. To literally become the "fly on the wall."

Secrets Of Insect Flight Revealed.
 

Abraham Gubler

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AeroFranz said:
Personally I like this version of the urban myth:
Of course it sounds nice but its total BS. This is the main problem rationality has in human society - romanticism always sounds much better. Of course its not true or remotely good for you but people are idiots.

Aerodynamics explains bee flight very well, its just if you treat the wing as a volplane rather than a ornithopter - which it clearly isn't - that it doesn't match the math.
 

AeroFranz

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Of course it's total BS. The previous posts (and by now empirical observation, one would hope) make it clear.

Being an aerospace engineer by training and by trade, I have to deal with the inescapable physics of flight on a constant basis, 80 hours per pay period, 52 weeks a year except for the (meager) vacation time that an E2 is allotted. Personally, i wouldn't last very long in a cubicle if I didn't romanticize every once in a while.
 

Michel Van

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on Bee fact is that bumblebee were consider as a aerodynamics paradox
some quotes from Wiki
the 1934 French book Le vol des insectes; they had applied the equations of air resistance to insects and found that their flight was impossible,
but that "One shouldn't be surprised that the results of the calculations don't square with reality"
John Maynard Smith a noted naturalist with a strong background in aeronautics, has pointed out that bumblebees would not be expected to sustain flight,
as they would need to generate too much power given their tiny wing area. However, in aerodynamics experiments with other insects he found that viscosity at
the scale of small insects meant that even their small wings can move a very large volume of air relative to the size,
and this reduces the power required to sustain flight by an order of magnitude.

back to Owl

maintenance and servicing
 

AeroFranz

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Michel Van said:
back to Owl

maintenance and servicing
That's one pissed off owl if I ever saw one ;D
 

Sundog

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AeroFranz said:
Michel Van said:
back to Owl

maintenance and servicing
That's one pissed off owl if I ever saw one ;D
I can't stop laughing looking at that. He looks like a muppet. rofl.
 

Lauge

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Sundog said:
I can't stop laughing looking at that. He looks like a muppet. rofl.
Indeed. The owl's expression rather reminds me of Sam the Eagle.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
 

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Abraham Gubler

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Its all in the Owl-Brow... The world needs a pissed off, wet Owl emoticon.
 

Grey Havoc

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In honour of Hedwig, I'm bumping this thread.
 

Grey Havoc

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More Research and Development, via Neptunus Lex : http://www.dogwork.com/owfo8/

;D
 

robunos

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Couple of interesting links...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21279609

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/16593259


cheers,
Robin.
 

kcran567

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Sundog said:
AeroFranz said:
Personally I like this version of the urban myth:

"According to the theory of aerodynamics, the bumble bee is unable to fly. This is because the size, weight and shape of its body in relation to the total wing spread make flying impossible. But the bumble bee, being ignorant of these profound scientific truths, goes ahead and flies anyway and also manages to make a little honey every day."
I'd have to go look at my low-Reynolds aerodynamics books, but IIRC part of the 'unaccounted' lift comes from some wing interaction with vortex shedding at the tips after each flap motion, something very hard to model.
Actually, I believe we have finally defined how insects, such as the bee, fly. I think it was determined as part of the research into micro-air vehicles, since the military basically wants insect like UAV's for spying. To literally become the "fly on the wall."

Secrets Of Insect Flight Revealed.

Those are all great owl pics ;D


Those Cicada bugs also have a similar rotund owl like aero shape.
 

LowObservable

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I was in the grounds of the Parliament building in Prague where I found a large, abandoned-looking aviary.

I looked up and thought "Those are quite convincing fake owls, but they made them too big" at which point one of them swiveled its head and glared at me as if I was (a) some kind of idiot and (b) dinner.

Stealth eagles.
 

bobbymike

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Waiting for the inevitable discussion of cost overruns of the Owl (B) and why its hovering capability isn't needed.
 

AeroFranz

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ha ha....funny...not.
Leave it to rest, will you? this is a thread about frickin' awesome birds and you have to drag diatribes that were segregated to their own 'no holds barred' topic for a very specific reason. This borders monomania...
 

bobbymike

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AeroFranz said:
ha ha....funny...not.
Leave it to rest, will you? this is a thread about frickin' awesome birds and you have to drag diatribes that were segregated to their own 'no holds barred' topic for a very specific reason. This borders monomania...
You see I was commenting on the very fact you point out in a humorous way. If you read any of my posts I have not engaged in the type of F-35 discussion you disparage. My humor WAS directed at them apparently it did not 'translate' well confirmed by the seriousness of your reply to me. I profusely apologize and will self flaggellate for upsetting you. :'(
 

overscan

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In this case I read bobbymike's comment as parodying the arguments, which is what he intended. I think Aerofranz took it a bit differently, and I can see why. Back to the topic :)
 

AeroFranz

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Ok, sincere apologies to bobbymike. :-[
It's hard to discern intention in posts, emoticons don't always do the job.
 

bobbymike

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AeroFranz said:
Ok, sincere apologies to bobbymike. :-[
It's hard to discern intention in posts, emoticons don't always do the job.
No problem AeroFranz you are a scholar and a gentleman and to the many senior members I have learned more from this site about the technologies I love than anything I could have accomplished in two lifetimes, thank you gentlemen!
 

GTX

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saintkatanalegacy said:

Well, at least that empennage will allow for good STOL capability... ;) But will it be as good as the C-17?
 

BioLuminescentLamprey

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Best thread ever! ;D

Those owl pictures are beautiful! I remember seeing a type, called locally the White Owl, when I was travelling in Rajasthan, India (near the Jodhpur Air Base with SU30MKI flying over all the time!). This was a bird that amazed me as it could float high above a field in one place. It had a circular, kind of scooping wing flapping pattern to do this for a few minutes at a time...all while using it's advanced sensors to hone in on insurgent mice. If I can find my video of it I'll post it.

Owls would also make good carrier based mouse hunters...they've got a nice flared landing. ..and the most amazing fly by wire software ever..watch one in slow motion some time and note the many minute and complex adjustments.

Breathtaking creature! Thanks for the other posts and links in this thread.
 

flateric

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