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Over the Horizon Radar

KJ_Lesnick

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I read about that on wikipedia... that sounds like it would require an enormous amount of energy to make that work...
 

SOC

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It's not so much the power output that makes it work as the wavelengths used and the atmospheric conditions being right.
 
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EIRP. The power requirement is important to a degree. Chernobyl-2 used to supply to one such radar .. ;)
 

Abraham Gubler

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avatar said:
EIRP. The power requirement is important to a degree. Chernobyl-2 used to supply to one such radar .. ;)

There is no Chernobyl anywhere near the three Australian OTH radar transmitters. Just powered by onsite generators. The old Russian OTH system were quite notorious for the steady thump signal they put out across the world in their wavelength. The Australian OTH system uses finese rather than brute force (ie computers vs huge power outputs).
 

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what is the actual power requirement of these radars and what is their output?

Duga-3 had an EIRP in the 10 MW range.
 

KJ_Lesnick

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How much wattage did the AN/ASG-18 and AWG-9 put out if it's not classified?
 

SOC

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The AN/ASG-18 put out 12kW peak. And it could light things on fire! The AWG-9 put out 5kW average in PD mode, no data for peak output. The AN/ASG-18 did put out 3kW average, so that may imply that the AWG-9 had a higher peak output figure as well.

And the Chernobyl plant was not there to power the nearby Duga-3 OTH system. That was just an unfortunate coincidence. Notice how its counterpart near Komsomolsk wasn't sited near a nuke plant...
 
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look let's not read too much into the chernobyl thingy ....

nuke plants are generally a steady source of power and if one is located close by , you might tap into it , if you want to keep something big running continuously for a long time ..

nobody is suggesting that Chernobyl-2 was exclusively powering Duga-3 etc etc ...

on the other hand If I wanted to continuously run something I would definitely not use liquid fuelled generators if I had something like a nuke plant in the near vicinity ...



On a different note - the soviet RBMK design was one of the first to breach the 1000 MW mark on a single unit . In fact it was the first to breach 1500 MW mark for any design.
 

SOC

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Construction of the radar began before construction of the nuke plant. While the presence of the plant was a consideration in basing the transmitter there, it wasn't a critical factor, that's all I'm saying.
 

SOC

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True story. During avionics testing there were issues with people constantly ignoring the marked off area and walking in front of the radar set. To put a stop to this, somebody (I forget who) put a piece of wood in front of the radar when they powered it on. Full power was applied, and sure enough it put a hole in the piece of wood. Suffice it to say that people walking in front of the radar was no longer an issue from that point forward.
 

KJ_Lesnick

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I take it the Duga-3 had an unusually high output, right?

How accurate is OTH radar versus conventional line-of-sight radar?


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True story. During avionics testing there were issues with people constantly ignoring the marked off area and walking in front of the radar set. To put a stop to this, somebody (I forget who) put a piece of wood in front of the radar when they powered it on. Full power was applied, and sure enough it put a hole in the piece of wood. Suffice it to say that people walking in front of the radar was no longer an issue from that point forward.

That's not exactly correct.

You are correct in regards to the people ignoring the marked off area and walking in front of the radar-set. However, at least when this first happened, people did start yelling at them because what they were doing was dangerous. Unfortunately they were under the impression that they knew radar perfectly well, having worked on the F-94 and such -- The radar used on the F-94 wasn't a very powerful radar compared to the ASG-18, allegedly the ASG-18 was hundreds of times more powerful.

To illustrate how dangerous this actually was, they put a large piece of wood I think it was a 4 by 8 in front of the radar. They turned the antenna at the piece of wood. From what I remember the radar was not at full power, but was on to some extent. At first nothing happened, then a black burn mark formed on the wood, then smoke started to come out, and eventually it caught fire...

It had an overkill effect and people wouldn't even get close to the plane unless they were told the system was off. It also somehow got to the tanker crews as well, so they were told before tanking up that the radar was off.


KJ
 

marauder2048

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Raytheon building Canadian radar to test effects of Aurora Borealis
Project could lead to a new polar radar system to monitor the Canadian north

CALGARY, Alberta, Dec. 4, 2018 /CNW/ -- Raytheon Canada Limited (RCL), a subsidiary of Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN),
will design, build and install two over-the-horizon radar sites in Canada's polar region to determine what effects, if any,
the Aurora Borealis has on target detection along the Canadian north.

These two contracts, totaling $30 million, resulted from a competitive solicitation posted on BuyandSell.gc.ca by Public
Services & Procurement Canada on behalf of the Department of National Defence. These contracts will enable Defence
Research and Development Canada to conduct a feasibility study of using sky-wave Over-The-Horizon Radar
technology, in the arctic, to determine the effect of the Aurora Borealis on target detection beyond line-of-site.

Working with Raytheon Intelligence, Information and Services, RCL will build two test sites to gauge how the Northern
Lights may impact operations. Should those tests prove successful, Canada may decide to build additional radar sites to
monitor its increasingly accessible arctic waterways.

"Raytheon built and operates a similar radar system in the U.S. which has been key to defending America's borders," said
David Appel, director for mission systems at Raytheon IIS. "A full over-the-horizon radar will monitor the arctic, as those
waters have become more accessible to shipping traffic."

Raytheon also will work with local companies to design and build the system.

"We will be working with Canadian suppliers to secure the Canadian north," said Terry Manion, RCL vice president
and general manager. "We understand the environment and can provide crucial technologies which may lead to significant
long term economic growth."

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/raytheon-building-canadian-radar-to-test-effects-of-aurora-borealis-701865451.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj0Tj8dnrYw
 

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