OS-105 - 1946 US Navy Day Fighter (alternatives to the Vought F7U Cutlass)

[rousseau]

I selected some layout of cutlass but some of front view or side view picture still lacking. I looking forward to you guys will post more.

[Removed - better copies below - Admin]

 

[Antonio]

USN Carrier Based Day Fighter requirement from 1946 generated 12 submissions:

Douglas D-565
Martin Model 235
McDonnell Model 40 and 40A
Chance Vought V-346A to D
Boeing Model 454
Boeing Model 459
Curtiss Wright unknown design
North American unknown design

The winner was Model V-346A which was produced as F7U Cutlass

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Thanks to PhotoGator, here's a look at Vought V-346C...

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I see the V-346C has 3 J34 engines.

 

[robunos]

From 'Chance Vought F7U Cutlass', Naval Fighters 6,

"The Navy opened a 1945 fighter competition for a fighter capable of 40,000 feet and 600 mph....
Twelve designs were submitted by six companies.
Vought submitted four, McDonnell NAA and Curtiss-Wright two each, and Martin and Douglas one each.
The final contenders were Vought's V-346A,B,C, and the Douglas 565
The Vought V-346A was chosen as the winner on June 25th, 1946..."

V-346A :-Swept-wing tailless aircraft weighing 14,300lbs, with two J-34 engines inside the fuselage,
Top speed 620 mph, rate of climb 6,500 fpm.

V-346B :-Conventional swept-wing aircraft weighing 15,700lbs, with two J-34 engines inside the fuselage,
Top speed 605 knots, rate of climb 5,800 fpm.

V-346C :- Similar to the V-346A, with the addition of one J-34 engine, giving a weight of 17,500lbs,
a Top Speed of 655 knots, and rate of climb 9,700 fpm.

V-346D :-Conventional swept-wing aicraft weighing 20,950lbs with three engines,
of which two were to be mounted in nacelles under each wing, and a third in the fuselage.
Top Speed 610 knots, rate of climb 7,000 fpm.

cheers,
Robin.

[Removed pics as better ones posted below - Admin]

 

[Bill S]

I had a little time, while sitting here scanning, to read the posts
from the beginning and found this one on the V-346.
From Vought Archives
Three years later, a response!

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Excellent, Bill. Those are the best three-views that I've seen by far of this design study. Thanks.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Renamed topic.

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice! Thanks a lot for sharing.

 

[hesham]

Also from the Spangenberg Index, courtesy of RyanCrierie;

the Curtiss-Wright proposal was P.538,and there is
P.551 may be for the same Specification,and North
American RD.1544.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

See attached from a Vought internal memo dated 4 September 1946. No Boeing...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Posted by Pometablava

USN Carrier Based Day Fighter requirement from 1946 generated 12 submissions:

Douglas D-565
Martin Model 235
McDonnell Model 40 and 40A
Chance Vought V-346A to D
Boeing Model 454
Boeing Model 459
Curtiss Wright unknown design
North American unknown design

The winner was Model V-346A which was produced as F7U Cutlass

 

[Antonio]

Tailspin,

my reference for the Boeing entries come from Tony Buttler's "American Secret Projects. Fighters & interceptors 1945-1978" Page 40.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Tailspin,
my reference for the Boeing entries come from Tony Buttler's "American Secret Projects. Fighters & interceptors 1945-1978" Page 40.

I don't have that book handy but Tony recently sent me an email that said he weaseled-worded (my phrasing) the formality of the Boeing proposal in the text on that page...

Of course, the omission might be the result of the Vought sales manager being misinformed or forgetting one of the competitors, but he seems to have taken a lot of care with his reports so it's probably not the latter.

The fighter class desk officer in charge later wrote that “about a dozen entries (were received) from six or eight companies”. He may not have stated an exact number of "entries" or companies because some of the proposals from some of the companies were rejected out of hand on receipt as not being compliant. That reduces BuAer's evaluation work load and would account for the omission of Boeing from the sales manager's report.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Thanks to Tony Buttler's ongoing search through the National Archives' finder's aid that is online for Record Group 72 and Ryan Crierie's expertise at pulling stuff out of the stacks there, we now have a three-view of the Douglas Model 565, which came in third in the OS-105 competition. (The shadow view is the Vought 346A proposal.)

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Scans by Rick Koehnen from the newly accessible BuAer documents in RG 72...

 

[Stargazer]

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jemiba]

Many thanks Mark !
The VF I looks a bit like a Hawker P.1081 clone.

 

[CliffyB]

Those top two scream British; cool find!

 

[robunos]

Tailspin Turtle, I've seen the Douglas Model 565 published in Jay Miller's 'Aerograph 5 - Douglas A-3 Skywarrior', as the 'Douglas Design based on A-3 studies', on page 14 of said book... ???

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Tailspin Turtle, I've seen the Douglas Model 565 published in Jay Miller's 'Aerograph 5 - Douglas A-3 Skywarrior', as the 'Douglas Design based on A-3 studies', on page 14 of said book... ???

cheers,
Robin.

Excellent observation. Tony Buttler told me that he'd seen it somewhere before and as it turns out so had I, but only you remembered where. We can be forgiven for not seeing something hiding in plain sight because Jay didn't identify it as the Model 565 or tie it to the OS-105 competition. The title of the illustration in his monograph is Douglas Design Based On AD Studies, so the implication was that it was associated with the attack mission.

 

[robunos]

That's why it stuck in my mind. It was implied that this design was the starting point for the evolution of the A3D/A-3, but it didn't look right. For a start it didn't seem large enough, or advanced enough to meet the attack requirement.
Likewise with the fighter requirement that we now know it was designed to meet. If the NAA VF I says 'Hawker P.1081', the the D-565 says 'Supermarine Attacker', it just doesn't seem advanced enough, aerodynamically. If this design was placed third in the competition, what was the last placed proposal like....?

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

That's why it stuck in my mind. It was implied that this design was the starting point for the evolution of the A3D/A-3, but it didn't look right. For a start it didn't seem large enough, or advanced enough to meet the attack requirement.
Likewise with the fighter requirement that we now know it was designed to meet. If the NAA VF I says 'Hawker P.1081', the the D-565 says 'Supermarine Attacker', it just doesn't seem advanced enough, aerodynamically. If this design was placed third in the competition, what was the last placed proposal like....?

cheers,
Robin.

The ranking by contractor was Vought, Douglas, North American, McDonnell, Martin, and Curtiss Wright. One or both of the C-Ws was reportedly "an extremely bad design." (That may have been an observation on some of its features like a JATO-activated escape pod rather than an ejection seat, boundary layer control for low speed flight, spoiler/flap for roll control, etc.) Remember that at the time, there was very little experience with swept wings and none in flight with afterburners. The Douglas proposal didn't meet the requirement for top speed or rate of climb but it also did not have swept wings or afterburning engines.

 

[pathology_doc]

V-346-D brings to mind the Vautour for some reason.

 

[Bill S]

Here is another view of the V-346D showing a few of the interior details.
Vought Aircraft Historical Archives


bill

 

[Bill S]

Same type drawing for the V-346B aircraft.
The film had nasty scratches on it,
I got most of it fixed except the damage on the tail.


Vought Aircraft Historical Archives


bill

 

[cluttonfred]

This is great stuff, really representative of the period. It's interesting how the conventional, tailed Vought designs look like bigger, brawnier versions of the Hawker P.1052 and P.1081, the swept-wing cousins of the Hawker Sea Hawk.

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

Also from the Spangenberg Index, courtesy of RyanCrierie;

the Curtiss-Wright proposal was P.538,and there is
P.551 may be for the same Specification,and North
American RD.1544.

The P-538 and P-551 were actually submitted to the US Navy's OS-112 requirement for a four-seat long-range escort fighter. The P-538 had two Allison T40 turboprops, while the P-551 was powered by four Westinghouse J46 turbojets housed paired in two wing nacelles. The RD.1544 was submitted to the OS-113 competition for a carrier-based interceptor (won by the Douglas F4D Skyray). More info about the P-538 and P-551 is found on pages 117 and 118 of the book Early US Jet Fighters by Tony Buttler.

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

USN Carrier Based Day Fighter requirement from 1946 generated 12 submissions:

Douglas D-565
Martin Model 235
McDonnell Model 40 and 40A
Chance Vought V-346A to D
Boeing Model 454
Boeing Model 459
Curtiss Wright unknown design
North American unknown design

The winner was Model V-346A which was produced as F7U Cutlass

The book Early US Jet Fighters by Tony Buttler notes that the Curtiss submissions to the OS-105 requirement were called VF-I and VF-II (pp. 108-109), whereas the North American proposal was dubbed RD-1386 (pp. 113-114). There is no mention of the Boeing Models 454 and 459 in this volume, and even though these designs were proposed in late 1945, the OS-105 requirement was issued December 28, 1945.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

McDonnell Model 40 and Model 40A

McDonnell Aircraft Model 40

A copy of the 3-view drawing and report of the proposed McDonnell Aircraft Model 40 aircraft. This was a twin engine jet fighter project. F...

aviationarchives.blogspot.com

McDonnell Aircraft Model 40A

A copy of the 3-view drawing and report of the proposed McDonnell Aircraft Model 40A aircraft. This was a twin engine jet fighter project. ...

aviationarchives.blogspot.com