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Northrop P-530 / P-600 / P-610 / YF-17 Design Evolution

Pioneer

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Northrop P-610 single-engine variant of the YF-17 Cobra (later F/A-18 Hornet)


At the time of the USAF’s ‘Light Weight Fighter’ (LWF) Request for Proposal, Northrop attempted to cover its bases, by submitting both a single-engine design, the P-610, and the twin-engine design, the P-600
Both the USAF and Northrop went with the P-600, which would be developed into the YF-17 Cobra, and later further developed into the larger and heavier F/A-18 Hornet for the US Navy.
But it is the P-610 that I am interested in
The P-610 design was very similar in layout to that of its two-engine P-600 design submission. But it was thought by some to not be as a refined as its twin-engine cousin. Although Lt. Gen Stewart would state that the P-610 looked as good or better than the twin-engine P-600 design. Northrop understood the single-engine F100 turbofan design would also make sense to the USAF, as it used this engine in its premier fighter, the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle.
But the status of the P-610 designs completion would soon be sealed with the death of its designer, Northrop Engineer Bill Roth, and with his death the P-610 would never be finished.

Does anyone have pictures, drawings (including 3-view drawing) and technical data / specifications for the single-engine P-610?



Regards
Pioneer
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I hope you don't mind that I broadened the scope of the thread.

I don't have anything specific on the P-610, but heres a nice overview of the design evolution from P-300 (Tiger derivative) to F-18 from "Northrop : An Aeronautical History" courtesy of Tinwing.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Some pics from the same book...
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Three view from the Northrop book, plus other pics found on the net.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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A curious (earlier?) revision with Dassault-style intakes.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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P530 SPECIFICATIONS (from Northrop: An Aeronautical History)
WING SPAN .........................................35 FT.
OVERALL LENGTH............................55 FT., 4 IN.
OVERALL HEIGHT ............................14 FT., 2 IN.
WING AREA....................................400 SQ. FT.
CLEAN TAKEOFF WEIGHT.......................23,000 LB
MAX. TAKEOFF WEIGHT.........................40,600 LB
SPEED-MAXIMUM...............................MACH 2.0
SPEED-CRUISING...............................MACH 0.85
RANGE (FERRY)...............................3,660 MILES
SERVICE CEILING...............................60,000 FT.
POWER —(2)G.E. 15/J1A5 TURBOJET, 13,000-LB THRUST
ARMAMENT — (I) 20MM GATLING GUN
(4)IR MISSILES (7) PYLON STATIONS AND (2) WING TIP STATIONS FOR ORDNANCE
 

elmayerle

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The best bet would be to check with the Western Museum of Flight as, if I remember correctly, they have most of Northrop's design history in their files.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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1971 Specs

2 x GE-15 turbofans, 12,000lb thrust [I believe this is wrong: the caption to the 3 view from August says 15,000lb]
Span: 33 ft
Length: 51 ft
Wing Area: 37.16 sq m
Empty Weight: 17,000lb
Fuel: 7,200lb
Warload: 12,000lb
Normal TOW: 25,000lb
Armament: 1 x 20mm M61, 4 AIM-9

Source:
Air Enthusiast June 1971
 

TinWing

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overscan said:
1971 Specs

2 x GE-15 turbofans, 12,000lb thrust [I believe this is wrong: the caption to the 3 view from August says 15,000lb]
Span: 33 ft
Length: 51 ft
Wing Area: 37.16 sq m
Empty Weight: 17,000lb
Fuel: 7,200lb
Warload: 12,000lb
Normal TOW: 25,000lb
Armament: 1 x 20mm M61, 4 AIM-9

Source:
Air Enthusiast June 1971

I am surprised by the minimal fuel load.

This is the first time I've seen fuel capacity quoted for the P530, but I have seen a figure of nearly 5,900km given for ferry range!
 

Matej

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Well, I just realised that someone was faster... (I wanted to point out single engined P-610) So I add only three early F-18 artists impressions that are closer to YF-17 than final F/A-18.
 

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Sundog

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Yeah, I would love more info on the P610. That YF-17 book is excellent. I hadn't realized while the Navy was flight testing it it received a Top Gun paint scheme, which looks great on it. I also didn't know it was the first fighter to perform the "Cobra" maneuver, although the Navy called it the "Hook and Hang" maneuver. Which is ironic that it is called the Cobra maneuver today, when the first plane to perform it, AFAIK, was the Cobra. ;)

Also, an FYI, that type of inlet on the early design is called a, "Half Shock Cone" inlet and was first used on the F-104. In fact, they were so classified at the time, you can see pics of the F-104 with covers over them at roll out so you can't tell what they look like (Or they were airbrused out to look like a solid nacelle, I don't remember which.)

There is also a good article on the YF-17 in volume 1 of "Wings OF Fame," by Bill Gunston. Wings Of Fame merged with World Airpower quarterly to become "international Air Power review." I don't know if you can find old issues of Wings Of Fame, but I highly recommend them.
 

Pioneer

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Yeah, I would love more info on the P610.


Thanks Sundog!

I thought everyone had given up on this search for the P-610.

Lets hope that there is someone out there that has more info

Let the search continue

Regards
Pioneer
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Larger scans of the evolution of the Cobra. Unfortunately the drawings are quite inaccurate viewed up close.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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http://www.google.com/patents?id=SLpXAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=john+w+patierno#PPP2,M1

P-530 patent about the LERX slots for boundary layer air removal.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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American Secret Projects has:

N-300A-3 (3 view)
N-300A-11 (3 view)
N-300A-43 (model pics)
P-530-2 (3 view, model pics)
N-322/P-610 (model pics)

N-300 is a great intermediate design between F-5 and Cobra.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2954.0.html

I'm looking at my copy right now :)
 

Sundog

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Thanks, I'm still waiting for my copy of British Hypersonics to show up from Amazon. Right now they are listing it as arriving December 5th and I ordered it over a month ago. I guess I'll have to hope I'll have American Secret Projects by Christmas.
 

Antonio

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Beautiful belly shoot

Source: Supersonic Fighter Development. Roy Braybrook. Ed Haynes. 1987 ISBN 0-85429-582-8
 

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Just call me Ray

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I find it interesting that the LERX isn't wholly attached to the fuselage. I know on the final product, this is indeed the case (although it looks joined it really isn't) but that was simply the result of a legal scuffle between Northrop and their manufactured portions and MDD/Boeing and their manufactured portions - or so I hear....
 

flateric

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Photos from YF-17 roll-out ceremony press-pack
 

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KJ_Lesnick

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flateric,

Beautiful pictures


KJ Lesnick
BTW: The second image doesn't work (doesn't produce enlarged image when clicked)
 

blackkite

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Beautiful. It's art. KJ, senond picture is no problem for me.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Just call me Ray said:
I find it interesting that the LERX isn't wholly attached to the fuselage. I know on the final product, this is indeed the case (although it looks joined it really isn't) but that was simply the result of a legal scuffle between Northrop and their manufactured portions and MDD/Boeing and their manufactured portions - or so I hear....

Thats wrong. The LERX on YF-17 had a single slot to the rear. The F-18 has two slots and a revised LERX shape. This has nothing to do with legal disputes, its aerodynamics.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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YF-17 pics

US Air Force pics from http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil
 

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blackkite

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Yes! Especially No3 picture is wonderful. We can understand under side shape. LERX,area rule,etc.
 

Sundog

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I just wanted to point out that based on the photos from the American Secret Projects the P-610 and the single engine YF-17 are not the same design. In fact, I think the single engine YF-17 looks more cool than the P-610 (The single engine version of the P-600). If anyone has any drawings of this design please share. I'm trying to figure out the inlets on it; I can't tell if they are a rounded triangular shape or small D-shaped inlets.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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The unknown design Tony calls the "single seat YF-17" is definitely closer to the YF-17 than the P-610 which is more of a single seat P-530. The intakes do look different - the photos are from John Aldaz, maybe John can shed some light on the intakes?
 

AeroFranz

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What are the sensors hanging under the intake trunks (IR and laser designator?). They sure look funny.
 

LowObservable

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My guess is that the sensors are a notional idea of what a LANTIRN would look like.
 

sferrin

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AeroFranz said:
What are the sensors hanging under the intake trunks (IR and laser designator?). They sure look funny.

The Hornet has had sensor pods from the get go. I don't think they have any relation to LANTIRN though as there is no terrain following functionality built into them IIRC. Here's a picture of a very early F/A-18 with them (it even has the original elliptical external tanks).

edit: "Night Attack system includes GEC Cat's Eyes pilot's night vision goggles, Hughes AN/AAR-50 thermal imaging navigation set (TINS) presenting forward view in Kaiser AN/AVQ-28 raster HUD, colour multifunction displays and Smiths colour digital moving map; external sensor pods comprise Loral AN/AAS-38B NITE Hawk targeting FLIR and TINS; NITE Hawk added laser target designator/ranger subsystem from January 1993, initially for squadrons VFA-146 and -147, operating in Arabian Gulf; USMC version of F/A-18D has mission-capable rear cockpit with no control column, but two sidestick weapons controllers and two Kaiser 12.7 cm (5 in) colour MFDs in addition to Smiths Srs 2100 colour map display; may be converted to dual control, with stick and throttles, for pilot training."
 

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Trident

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Interesting photos of the F-18L. The most notable difference from its naval cousin appears to be the addition of a third underwing pylon (Super Hornet style). As for the pods, could one of them be a detachable version of Pave Penny?
 

Sundog

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YF-17 Details Page 1
YF-17 Details Page 2
The second page shows relative performance increases wrt the F-4E.

Cobra and the LWF Page 1
Cobra and the LWF Page 2
Cobra and the LWF Page 3
Cobra and the LWF Page 4

From The LWF deciding factor in final flight test
The final deciding flight test in the lightweight fighter fly-off was a level flight acceleration from Mach 0.6 to Mach 2. The YF-17 suffered from an intake matching problem which necessitated a shallow dive during the acceleration.

Oh, I like this photo montage as well of the YF-17 Demonstration Take-Off.
 

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