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Novi Avion (Yugoslavia)

overscan

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The Novi Avion had 2 major design revisions. The early design had a chin inlet, with a Lavi feel, while the later design, which was partly created by Dassault who came on board as technical consultants, looks like a mini-Rafale.

Here's a PDF of a 1983 brochure for the early design:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/NA.pdf

(found online at airserbia.com)
 

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Deino

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Very interesting design ... esp. interesting with the chnage in configuration from that Lavi-style to a mini-Rafale after the Frech consultations ...

Here's something more:
 

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Archibald

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That's very cool! I discovered this project recently and was impressed... What an achievement for a small country like Yougoslavia... and thanks very much for the 3-view!!
 

TinWing

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It would now seem as if the "Novi Avion" program commenced at the end of the Tito era, and continued under the Milosevic regime - only to be ended by the collapse of Yugoslavia.
 

TinWing

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Here is a 3-view of the "definitive" Novi Avion.

I have no idea about the original source, but I found it on defensetalk.
 

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overscan

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Its from Janes All the Worlds Aircraft. Not terribly accurate, either.
 

TinWing

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overscan said:
Its from Janes All the Worlds Aircraft. Not terribly accurate, either.
It looks like a JAWA 3-view, but I have never seen an entry on the "Novi Avion" in any year of Jane's?
 

TinWing

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overscan said:
Cockpit mockup
I know you are most interested in avionics, but I'm surprised that you didn't comment on the use of aluminum-litium alloy for the fuselage. To the best of my knowledge, the Rafale's fuselage is composed of conventional alloys and carbon fiber? Oddly enough, the contempory MiG-29M/K also used a welded Al-Li fuselage assembly.

So the Novi Avion looks like a Dassault Rafale, but might have been built like a MiG-29M?
 

overscan

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Typhoon uses some Al-Li - e.g. leading and trailing edges of the vertical fin, fuselage mainframes. See http://www.eurofighter.com/Typhoon/Production/ for more details. Rafale uses it too. The reason the USSR was interested, and this applies to Yugoslavia too, was the promise of similar weight savings to composites while using existing metal based manufacturing techniques. However, structural problems with the MiG-29M's Al-Li alloys have led to its removal from the Indian MiG-29K I believe.
 

elmayerle

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*laugh* Not the first aircraft to be afflicted that way. The 1-year delay on the C-17 was at least partly due to having to redesign the wing structure in more conventional aluminum alloys after the Ai-Li ones they initially used didn't pan out. I'm told that the folk in Long Beach had some rather vituperative private comments regarding Alcoa. Too, Al-Li alloys are a lot more care intensive in the shop and maintenance environment from what I understand of their use in late-model F-16s.
 

hesham

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My dears,

may I ask you,is that aircraft related to VTI fighter project of 1994 ?
the source: jane's all the world aircraft 1994-1995.
 

Archibald

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My humble participation : these missiles looks like Magic and super 530
considering the era (1990 or so) would the radar have been a RDM or RDI similar to the Mirage 2000s of the era ?
 

overscan

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Possibly, but they might have been a little large for it?
 

Archibald

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Ok, I browsed "Novi-avion+ Super-530" on google and found this.
Obviously slave language (Polish ? Czesch ?) but I used the "search word" function, and names of missiles are never translated...

http://www.haditechnika.hu/ARCHIVUM/199101/910107.htm

Someone can translate this paragraph ?
;D

környező országok közül Jugoszlávia a fejlesztés alatt álló Novi Avion (új repülőgép) makettjét mutatta be. Külsőleg nagyon hasonlít a francia Rafale vadászrepülőgépre, ami nem csoda, hiszen a Novi Avion fejlesztéséhez, a gép sárkányának a kialakításához a franciák segítséget nyújtanak. A makett fegyverzete két Matra Super 530 és két Mica levegő-levegó rakétából állt.

It was a Farnborough, 1990...
 

overscan

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I think you mean "Slav" not Slave.

I'm pretty sure it says something along the lines of - design assistance from Dassault, Rafale influences, and Super 530 or MICA AAMs.
 

boxkite

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Obviously slave language (Polish ? Czesch ?) but I used the "search word" function, and names of missiles are never translated...

http://www.haditechnika.hu/ARCHIVUM/199101/910107.htm

Someone can translate this paragraph ?
Archibald, you have to look for someone, who is able to speak Hungarian ;).
 

hesham

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Dear boxkite,

is that aircraft related to VTI fighter project of 1995?.
 

overscan

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VTI was responsible for the Novi Avion, yes.
 

Archibald

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Slave language... :-\ :-X
sorry for slav people reading this thread...
Thanks for the precision. so, is there someone speaking hungarian here ? ;D
Super-530 depended from Cyrano-IV radars (for the Mirage F1) or RD- series of radars (-M,or -I but Y was adpted to fire MICAs).
If it was to be a Mirage 2000 radar, RDM seem more probable (RDI just entered service, maybe it was too sensitive at the time).
 

Meteorit

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Matej said:
BTW, Hungarian language is the only in central Europe, that is not a Slav language ;)
Yes, actually it is a Finno-Ugrian language. ;D
However, its so much different from Finnish that I can't translate it. ;) But overscan is most probably close enough.
 

Archibald

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Be nice, forget what I said...you heard nothing about slav, slave, hungarian, finish or else...
I'll try to find a translator for the text on the web...
 

Archibald

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So I want to Google and found an hungarian translator... (Warning : computer translation :D ;D )

Here we go...
circumambient countries out of Yugoslavian the development underneath stand-up Novi Avion ( new ship ) mockup show be.

In his outlook very resemble the French Rafale fighter plane , that no wonder , since the Novi Avion fejlesztéséhez , the machine sárkányának the kialakításához the French its help nyújtanak. THE mockup outfitting two Mattress Super 530 and two Mica atmosphere - atmosphere missiles she stood.

(how the f...ck can it translate Air-to-air missiles into atmosphere ?) :eek:
 

Archibald

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Don't know if this quote is known out of france...
Arletty was a well-knwon actress in the 30's. In a mythical french movie named "Hotel du nord" she had this famous quote
"Atmosphere, atmosphere... est ce que j'ai une gueule d'atmosphere moi ?"
lets go back to the Novi Avion
 

boxkite

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környező országok közül Jugoszlávia a fejlesztés alatt álló Novi Avion (új repülőgép) makettjét mutatta be. Külsőleg nagyon hasonlít a francia Rafale vadászrepülőgépre, ami nem csoda, hiszen a Novi Avion fejlesztéséhez, a gép sárkányának a kialakításához a franciák segítséget nyújtanak. A makett fegyverzete két Matra Super 530 és két Mica levegő-levegó rakétából állt.
:) drum roll)

I asked my colleague’s brother-in-law (who was born in Hungary, but is living in Germany since the 1970s) for a translation from Hungarian to German. And I tried to translate it into English ;). Nothing new compared to the internet translator (it seems the first part of the sentence is missing):
- Yugoslavia (as a neighbouring country of Hungary) has shown the new aircraft “Novi Avion” which looks like the French fighter Rafale on the surface
- that’s not a surprise because it was designed with help from France
- equipped with two Matra Super 530 and two Mica AAMs

Further ‘exotic’ languages to translate 8) ?
 

TinWing

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boxkite said:
környező országok közül Jugoszlávia a fejlesztés alatt álló Novi Avion (új repülőgép) makettjét mutatta be. Külsőleg nagyon hasonlít a francia Rafale vadászrepülőgépre, ami nem csoda, hiszen a Novi Avion fejlesztéséhez, a gép sárkányának a kialakításához a franciák segítséget nyújtanak. A makett fegyverzete két Matra Super 530 és két Mica levegő-levegó rakétából állt.
- equipped with two Matra Super 530 and two Mica AAMs
It is very interesting that a reference is made to Mica AAMs and not Magic II AAMs. Was the Mica-IR under consideration, because I somehow doubt that the UK would have released the active seeker of the Mica-EM to Yugoslavia?
 

hs1216

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The Novi Avion was powered by a French M-88 engine. The M-88 engine is in a very popular size and thrust category that includes the GE F404, RD33, RB199, and the EJ200. It could have been possible to equip Novi Avion with all these engines, and this would have made the plane an exporting sensation.

Novi Avion Export possibilities:

GE F404 would attract countries that prefer American technology and engines. It’s small, cheap, built in large numbers, and extremely reliable.

RD33 would have been very popular with countries who had traditionally bought from Soviet/Russian sources. This would mean it would be a perfect for former Warsaw Pact countries. 
 

tomcat1974

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Matej said:
BTW, Hungarian language is the only in central Europe, that is not a Slav language ;)
define the central europeand you might be suprise to find another non slav language there... well actually a latin language.
 

Archibald

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romania! Thanks Trajan soldiers left behind some roman conquests, 1500+ years ago...
changing the engine is not so easy, when a plane start its carier with an engine, it kept it util the end...
Could be cool building a novi Avion model using Heller Rafale-A (the demonstrator from 1986).
 

hs1216

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Changing a engine may be hard but its not impossible. The Rafale A initially had GE F404’s, but then they installed SNECMA M88, so their must be some possibility with equipping a Novi Avion with a F404.
 

Archibald

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Good point, but the Rafale A was very, very different from the Rafale prototypes, much more than the engines...
 

hs1216

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In terms of performance how would the Novi Avion stacks up to other fighters like the Gripen, and Rafale.

Also, just for clarification all the later display models of the Novi Avion are of the single seated version. :)
 

hs1216

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The “Novi-Avion” seems to have awful lot of top of line French technology, M.88 engine, MICA missiles, and radar. I got to believe that there were serious restrictions on where and who Yugoslavia could market their new fighter, in order to prevent the Novi Avion from being an export threat to the Rafale

I recall reading somewhere that the South Africans helped Yugoslavia develop some of avionics and weapons. If that’s true wouldn’t South Africa have been a potential export customer, it was the late 80’s, and with UN sanctions, the Novi Avion looks like a great Mirage III replacement. :p

Also does anyone have any more pictures of the finalized version?
 

Radeks

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There is no finalized version.
This plane was never built.Only a model was built for wind tunel tests.
Novi Avion is in english New Airplane.

cheers
Marko(AirSerbia team)
 
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