Northrop P- Designations

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The P- designation system starts with P530 as, legend states, the engineers were working "off the clock" after work, and couldn't register the design in the normal N- sequence, so labelled their drawings "P530" for the time they started work (5.30pm).

P530 N-300 Cobra
P600 N-321 Twin engine LWF/ACF submission (YF-17)
P610 N-322 Single engine LWF/ACF submission
P630 Navalised F-17 (Northrop-only design to VFAX)
P700 N-310 Advanced Tactical Fighter, F-X Program, (1968) also N347 N/D-102 (1980s)
P800 N-341 Advanced Fighter
P900 N353 Mission Adaptive Fighter
P1000 Generic Fighter Technology / N360 Baseline Advanced Fighter / N364 Advanced Supersonic Cruise Fighter

It appears to me that the P- series are private venture fighter designs, not to a specific contract but done "off the books", to explore various configurations. When there's an actual contract involved, an official N- number is usually assigned in addition. Some P- numbers spanned multiple N- numbers as the same designs got reused in different study contracts and evolved over the years.

 

[Stargazer]

P700 N-310 Advanced Tactical Fighter, F-X Program, (1968) also N347 N/D-102 (1980s)

This entry seems a little odd to me. Was the phrase "Advanced Tactical Fighter" already in use in 1968?
And why would a 1968 program be included within a 1982 program?
Otherwise cool summary of the P- series of designs, thanks.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Bump!

@aim9xray - have you any thoughts on this topic?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

P700 N-310 Advanced Tactical Fighter, F-X Program, (1968) also N347 N/D-102 (1980s)

This entry seems a little odd to me. Was the phrase "Advanced Tactical Fighter" already in use in 1968?
And why would a 1968 program be included within a 1982 program?
Otherwise cool summary of the P- series of designs, thanks.

Few years late and Stargazer is no longer a member, but the answer is, Advanced Tactical Fighter was one of the names for the early FX (F-15) studies. It has no direct connection to the 1980s ATF.

 

[hesham]

My dear PaulMM,

I have these two designations in my files,although I am not sure
about them,they are so weird ?;

P.601 LWF fighter
P.999 was the same as MX-324 ?!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

P.601 was a typo for P.610. I've seen the book.

 

[hesham]

P.601 was a typo for P.610. I've seen the book.

And the other one,I think it was the beginning of "PD" series,which maybe from
number 1000 used it instead off "P",please notice that,it was from 1943/44 ?.

 

[aim9xray]

Bump!

@aim9xray - have you any thoughts on this topic?

Yes.

1) "Advanced Tactical Fighter" seems to have been a generic title in the late 1960s. The phrase became a program name for a "program of record" in the 1980s.

2) (Northrop context) "PD" was a drawing prefix used by the Preliminary Design group through the late 1940s and 1950s to distinguish and separate their drawings from the drawings creating by the other Engineering organizations in Northrop.

Note: A reference to design PD-2832 (an intermediate N-156 design) should be interpreted as "a design as documented in drawing PD-2832". Referring the design as "PD-2832" is a short way of of referring back to the drawing.

HTH!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

But we aren't any closer to understanding why we have P and N series numbers, right? Or why we only seem to have P numbers for fighters?

 

[aim9xray]

With respect to formal command media such as the DRM (Drawing/Design Room Manual), no. This is more of a "tribal lore" sort of thing.

 

[hesham]

I think we have to make also a series for PD.

 

[BillRo]

Since I was a Configuration Manager '80 - 85 in Northrop's white world Advanced Design and entered a few NXXX numbers myself into the master list binder we kept in the drawing cabinet, here are a couple of comments. When things were simple, before special access programs and secret off-site buildings, Northrop projects were given NXXX numbers when they matured. Variants were sometimes given dash numbers (N342-4 for example). The P numbers started with the P530 which was allegedly assigned to an after-hours (hence 5:30 PM) unofficial design that was eventually embraced by the company and variants of that got some successive P numbers. Even that was not sacred and other designs were given a P number like Bud Nelson's P700 that he brought from Boeing.

The actual configuration and associate drawings (like a Structural Arrangement0 had AD-xxxx numbers and there could have been several for a given NXXX project especially if there - dash variants.

When the black world took off (the B-2 started in Bob Sandusky's Advanced Design, but I never saw an N number for it) they no longer had the N number book, which did not matter for one program, but as other black things developed, like ATF, Tacit Blue, Tacit Rainbow and others, they were assigned AP -X numbers. Not surprisingly I have not seen a list of these although I have a personnel performance review from the Tacit Rainbow program calling it AP3.

Tony Chong is probably the best person person to comment and his book "Flying Wings and Radical Things" does a pretty good job.

 

[hesham]

P.999 was the same as MX-324 ?!

I think they were a separated two series,because P.999 was appeared in
1942/43 and PD-980 from 1948.