Northrop / McDonnell Douglas ATF - YF-23 and EMD F-23

[BDF]

Yes, I was at the WMOF event by Metz/Sandberg. I don't recall Yu Ping Liu being there.

Thanks, I can't recall where I read it and I may have be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that there was actually a discussion about LO and that didn't make it into the online version of the presentation (perhaps by design which would be odd). Anyway I thought I read Dr. Liu was there. He passed a couple years after that presentation as I recall

 

[BDF]

I'd imagine that must have changed by the 1980s, since Yu Ping Liu joined the program in 1985, per Paul Metz.

I think he was head of LO for the B-2 and plus I believe he developed the LO configuration of TSSAM. Anyway they must have changed those rules well before ATF but I could be wrong

 

[BillRo]

In terms of security requirements, I am sure there were a few exceptions for high level people, especially if they worked LO before it went black. As an ex-Brit I was eventually cleared for Tacit Rainbow which was special access at the time.

 

[quellish]

Yes, I was at the WMOF event by Metz/Sandberg. I don't recall Yu Ping Liu being there.

He was in the audience

 

[gpalz]

Hello, I have a question regarding the BLC exhaust vents on each side of the fuselage of PAV-1. Looking at the archival videos and photos during the 1990 demo flights in some pictures they appear darker in color (black like) and in other pictures they appear lighter in color (whitish gray). The PAV-1 restoration appears to be black (see page 37 post #1453). Anyone now why this is or how these exhaust vents work that may make them appear to change color?

 

[Scott Kenny]

Hello, I have a question regarding the BLC exhaust vents on each side of the fuselage of PAV-1. Looking at the archival videos and photos during the 1990 demo flights in some pictures they appear darker in color (black like) and in other pictures they appear lighter in color (whitish gray). The PAV-1 restoration appears to be black (see page 37 post #1453). Anyone now why this is or how these exhaust vents work that may make them appear to change color?

View attachment 792804View attachment 792805View attachment 792806

I'm pretty sure that is the contrast between the black and the light gray.

I'd suggest Dark Ghost Gray for the color of that spot.

 

[flateric]

Judging from close up area photos in Metz book they (fixed BLC exhaust ducts) are grilled surface that may look different color at different angle.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Judging from close up area photos in Metz book they (fixed BLC exhaust ducts) are grilled surface that may look different color at different angle.

That too. Dark Ghost Gray grilled surface.

 

[gpalz]

Thank you both for your input. Saw a photo way up stream from Metz book of the ECS exhaust port aft of the canopy where it looks like a mesh/grilled surface. Differences in appearance probably due to the viewing angle as suggested.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Thank you both for your input. Saw a photo way up stream from Metz book of the ECS exhaust port aft of the canopy where it looks like a mesh/grilled surface. Differences in appearance probably due to the viewing angle as suggested.

I don't think it's the viewing angle, I think it's the difference between the black on AV2 (looks light) and Light Ghost Gray on AV1 (looks dark/black).

 

[fightingirish]

The National Museum of the U.S. Air Force recently shared a bunch of rare YF-23 photos on their Facebook page.
Source / Link:
https://www.facebook.com/AFmuseum/photosHere are a few appetizers.

 

[fightingirish]

Hello folks, after work I edited my post and added a few more pictures.
After checking pages 25 to 30 of Paul Metz’s book, the image below features the DP86 design from January 1986.

 

[We.lovejets]

Part 2 of the new National Museum of the USAF YF-23 collection

 

[fightingirish]

Another batch (4 from 5) was uploaded a few hours ago.

Any fans of the Northrop-McDonnell Douglas YF-23A? View these historic photos then visit the aircraft on display in the museum's fourth building. #avgeek #aviation #legend (Photo Series 4 of 5)
In 1991, after extensive flight testing, the USAF announced that the Lockheed YF-22A won the airframe competition. Northrop ended its ATF program, and the YF-23A on display came to the Museum in 2000.
Locations: Northrop YF-23A “Black Widow II” Advanced Tactical Fighter (PAV-2)(Western Museum of Flight)
(PAV-1 NMUSAF Dayton Ohio)

Source / Link:
https://www.facebook.com/AFmuseum/photosAt work, but here some appetizers.

 

[Manuducati]

Damn, is it Xmas time already?

 

[We.lovejets]

Damn, is it Xmas time already?

Christmas came early folks

 

[bercr]

Part 2 of the new National Museum of the USAF YF-23 collection

Wow... Beautiful. Thank you!

 

[Rolead]

Such a beautiful aircraft, in another universe it won the competition.

 

[fightingirish]

Just a heads up, the fifth and last batch of pictures was uploaded to the Facebook page a few hours back.
This collection includes the YF-23 PAV-1 and PAV-2, which had been stored post-test program and were pending restoration before being showcased in museums.
Source / Link:

https://www.facebook.com/100064496841993/posts/pfbid076m9WotH9HZXwSuiw1U1SFU9QyT9X2xn79LbM7txarkJFFrQ8eXww7umPo1C2atLl

View: https://www.facebook.com/100064496841993/posts/pfbid076m9WotH9HZXwSuiw1U1SFU9QyT9X2xn79LbM7txarkJFFrQ8eXww7umPo1C2atLl/

 

[flateric]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/127564704011

 

[Reddington777]

Reading through the thread - would the production F-23 still have wider engine spacing than the F-22 despite being moved closer together?

Any estimates on how wide is the gap between engines of the F-22?

 

[martinbayer]

I would love to see *ALL* documents related to the F-22/F-23 competition being made public.

 

[martinbayer]

Reading through the thread - would the production F-23 still have wider engine spacing than the F-22 despite being moved closer together?

Any estimates on how wide is the gap between engines of the F-22?

And this would be relevant exactly why?

 

[flateric]

Any estimates on how wide is the gap between engines of the F-22?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-martin-f-22-raptor.4505/post-35854

 

[Scott Kenny]

And this would be relevant exactly why?

Because this is the "YF-23 and EMD F-23" thread.

 

[martinbayer]

Because this is the "YF-23 and EMD F-23" thread.

Precisely, exactly that - I don't see *ANY* mention of the *F-22* in the title of this thread. Please, let's keep topics separated by type, shall we?

 

[Reddington777]

Precisely, exactly that - I don't see *ANY* mention of the *F-22* in the title of this thread. Please, let's keep topics separated by type, shall we?

How do you keep that separate when the purpose is to... compare two things...

 

[martinbayer]

How do you keep that separate when the purpose is to... compare two things...

Sounds like a question to the Mods - I don't make the rules around here...

 

[Antonio]

It particularly frustrates me when I see entire threads filled with comments that are irrelevant to the topic.

But in this case, I think the reference should be considered acceptable. It's a comparative piece of information, being requested in relation to the main topic. Thus I see no digression.

 

[VTOLicious]

Any estimates on how wide is the gap between engines of the F-22?

I measured 1295 mm, based on the image linked by flateric.

 

[flateric]

Reading through the thread - would the production F-23 still have wider engine spacing than the F-22 despite being moved closer together?

1980.7 mm at inlet lip seal for DP232 (GE)
1970.6 mm for DP231 (PW)
2400 mm for DP117K (YF-23A)

 

[greenarrow]

Hello everyone, I've been working on a high-fidelity YF-23 module for DCS World for a while now.

I have a question: are there any publicly available aerodynamic data sheets, or has anyone simulated the model using CFD?

I'd like to know if they exist before running it myself, and if you'd be interested in seeing the fuselage aerodynamics here.

 

[lastdingo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2060015353762291984

View: https://x.com/_yf23_/status/2060015353762291984?s=20

 

[FlyGuy369]

Very heavy breathing.

 

[Scott Kenny]

IMO, the F-23N would have been best served as a 2-seater, but the powers that be decided against that...

 

[SCAT-15F]

Pretty much ruined my year when the contract winner was announced.

 

[flateric]

via Al Sadrpour

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Very nice!

 

[Sundog]

More intriguingly, the latest sixth generation fighter concepts from the designers
of the YF-23 darold Cummings also adopt thrust vectoring, instead of the nozzle design used on the YF-23. One reason, as noted in the article, is that thrust vectoring is more critical for flight control of tailless aircraft. Another possible reason is that in terms of development potential, the YF-23’s nozzle does not possess the stealth advantage over vectoring nozzles that is widely assumed.

Actually, the YF-23's nozzles were ideal for lowering the signature around the lower tail and side aspects at the tail. The reason the YF-23 didn't have TV is it didn't need it to meet the requirements. Those large butterfly tails gave it all the control power it required, even at low speeds.

 

[jmspeedfreak]

Actually, the YF-23's nozzles were ideal for lowering the signature around the lower tail and side aspects at the tail. The reason the YF-23 didn't have TV is it didn't need it to meet the requirements. Those large butterfly tails gave it all the control power it required, even at low speeds.

Look where I was today..... Western Museum of Flight.