Northrop Grumman B-21A Raider (LRS-B)

Kat Tsun said:
If you're being engaged by a missile, doesn't it follow that a momentary RCS increase isn't going to increase your chances of being tracked? They're already tracking you well enough to secure a firing solution, after all.
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Perhaps. But why kneecap your countermeasures right at the endgame?

The pictures of the Raytheon MSDM do show something with rail shoes, but I keep imagining a tube-launched missile with a piston that seals up the tube after launch.
 
Oh when I said XB-70-alike I meant a vertical drop out of the bomb bay, like Pye Wacket, not a horizontal drop like AIM-120. That seems the simplest implementation to me without intruding too much on the internal structure. I imagine B-21 is going to look like the initial high altitude B-2 studies, but smaller, so any rockets coming towards it will likely be coming up rather than dropping down (maybe), and there will probably be less space inside it than B-2 to fit countermeasure systems (although maybe it'll have smaller radars or ECM fit).

If there really needs to be a killer/defensive rocket fitting into some other space I suspect you'd be replacing flare or chaff dispensers, although I don't know if B-2 carries those tbf, since those seem to be the biggest alternatives for a hard kill anti-missile system. OTOH they would also be worse for RCS reduction (arguably) since they'd be a permanent spike until they could be replaced after landing.

I don't think the bomb bay opening momentarily to drop a counter-missile out and closing back up is a deal breaker since the enemy has already detected, tracked, and been able to launch on your plane. The advantage of reduced RCS is mostly gone, aside from jamming benefits, when you're under direct attack.

I find the necessity of an anti-missile system for a VLO bomber to be really odd though tbf.
 
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Where B-52's go today, will B-21 will follow tomorrow? These facility upgrades are to be finished by the end of 2026.

www.abc.net.au

A 'strong message to our adversaries': US prepares to deploy B-52 bombers to Top End

A Four Corners investigation can reveal the US Air Force is planning to deploy up to six nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to Tindal air base near Darwin, as fears grow that China is preparing for an assault on Taiwan.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
NeilChapman said:
Where B-52's go today, will B-21 will follow tomorrow? These facility upgrades are to be finished by the end of 2026.

www.abc.net.au

A 'strong message to our adversaries': US prepares to deploy B-52 bombers to Top End

A Four Corners investigation can reveal the US Air Force is planning to deploy up to six nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to Tindal air base near Darwin, as fears grow that China is preparing for an assault on Taiwan.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Click to expand...

No doubt the USAF will base the B-21 wherever the B-52 goes in the near future once it enters service.
 
Presumably the B-21 could fit into any space or infrastructure that could host a B-52. And hopefully it has a similar endurance as the B-2 which would enable it to still make unfueled runs into the SCS.
 
Josh_TN said:
Presumably the B-21 could fit into any space or infrastructure that could host a B-52. And hopefully it has a similar endurance as the B-2 which would enable it to still make unfueled runs into the SCS.
Click to expand...

B-21 will probably be more like the B-2, in that it will want a shelter rather than just a hardstand.
 
TomS said:
Josh_TN said:
Presumably the B-21 could fit into any space or infrastructure that could host a B-52. And hopefully it has a similar endurance as the B-2 which would enable it to still make unfueled runs into the SCS.
Click to expand...

B-21 will probably be more like the B-2, in that it will want a shelter rather than just a hardstand.
Click to expand...

The B-21's outer coating likely isn't as touchy as the B-2's. The F-35 doesn't seem to have the same coating issues as even the F-22. There are already weather shelters created for the B-21 that imply temperature/humidity control aren't major issues like they were for the B-2:

www.military.com

This Could Be the B-21 Raider's First Outdoor Hangar

The service has erected a temporary prototype "Environmental Protection Shelter" at Ellsworth Air Force Base.
www.military.com www.military.com
 
Josh_TN said:
TomS said:
Josh_TN said:
Presumably the B-21 could fit into any space or infrastructure that could host a B-52. And hopefully it has a similar endurance as the B-2 which would enable it to still make unfueled runs into the SCS.
Click to expand...

B-21 will probably be more like the B-2, in that it will want a shelter rather than just a hardstand.
Click to expand...

The B-21's outer coating likely isn't as touchy as the B-2's. The F-35 doesn't seem to have the same coating issues as even the F-22. There are already weather shelters created for the B-21 that imply temperature/humidity control aren't major issues like they were for the B-2:

www.military.com

This Could Be the B-21 Raider's First Outdoor Hangar

The service has erected a temporary prototype "Environmental Protection Shelter" at Ellsworth Air Force Base.
www.military.com www.military.com
Click to expand...

OTOH, they just deployed 5 B-2s to RAAF Amberley for several months without one of those climate-controlled shelters, so maybe the B-2 coatings are getting easier to work on.

On the gripping hand, they didn't even bring overhead shelters like the ones being talked about for the B-21, so none of these aircraft seem to need them all the time.
 
TomS said:
Josh_TN said:
TomS said:
Josh_TN said:
Presumably the B-21 could fit into any space or infrastructure that could host a B-52. And hopefully it has a similar endurance as the B-2 which would enable it to still make unfueled runs into the SCS.
Click to expand...

B-21 will probably be more like the B-2, in that it will want a shelter rather than just a hardstand.
Click to expand...

The B-21's outer coating likely isn't as touchy as the B-2's. The F-35 doesn't seem to have the same coating issues as even the F-22. There are already weather shelters created for the B-21 that imply temperature/humidity control aren't major issues like they were for the B-2:

www.military.com

This Could Be the B-21 Raider's First Outdoor Hangar

The service has erected a temporary prototype "Environmental Protection Shelter" at Ellsworth Air Force Base.
www.military.com www.military.com
Click to expand...

OTOH, they just deployed 5 B-2s to RAAF Amberley for several months without one of those climate-controlled shelters, so maybe the B-2 coatings are getting easier to work on.

On the gripping hand, they didn't even bring overhead shelters like the ones being talked about for the B-21, so none of these aircraft seem to need them all the time.
Click to expand...

It could also be the climate in Oz is more amenable to the coating than say Diego. Probably drier, and if nothing else no salt water...
 
Well, in terms of altitude and distance, still an order of magnitude further from the sea than Diego Garcia. But probably not especially dry I imagine. I haven't been to that part of Oz but assume its fairly temperate.
 
zjz said:
I wonder if they are going to have a B-2 parked next to the B-21 during the latter's roll-out next month.
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It would be great to see both stealth bombers next to each other to make it easy to compare the two at the B-21 roll out, though the chances of it happening are quite remote. I suspect that Northrop would rather just have the B-21 getting rolled out instead on the 2nd December.
 
FighterJock said:
zjz said:
I wonder if they are going to have a B-2 parked next to the B-21 during the latter's roll-out next month.
Click to expand...

It would be great to see both stealth bombers next to each other to make it easy to compare the two at the B-21 roll out, though the chances of it happening are quite remote. I suspect that Northrop would rather just have the B-21 getting rolled out instead on the 2nd December.
Click to expand...

I'm sure lots of folks will be trying for really precise mensuration of the B-21 based on whatever angles they show off on Dec 2, but there's no reason to make things easy for them by giving a well-known reference object.
 
TomS said:
FighterJock said:
zjz said:
I wonder if they are going to have a B-2 parked next to the B-21 during the latter's roll-out next month.
Click to expand...

It would be great to see both stealth bombers next to each other to make it easy to compare the two at the B-21 roll out, though the chances of it happening are quite remote. I suspect that Northrop would rather just have the B-21 getting rolled out instead on the 2nd December.
Click to expand...

I'm sure lots of folks will be trying for really precise mensuration of the B-21 based on whatever angles they show off on Dec 2, but there's no reason to make things easy for them by giving a well-known reference object.
Click to expand...
Then perhaps NorGrum should have the B-21 parked next to a fabulously accurate B-2 replica... at 94.937% scale.
 
FighterJock said:
zjz said:
I wonder if they are going to have a B-2 parked next to the B-21 during the latter's roll-out next month.
Click to expand...

It would be great to see both stealth bombers next to each other to make it easy to compare the two at the B-21 roll out, though the chances of it happening are quite remote. I suspect that Northrop would rather just have the B-21 getting rolled out instead on the 2nd December.
Click to expand...
Besides, most of the working press would get the two confused and mislabel them. 8-P.

"No, the bigger one has the lower number..."

Reporter:"But what happened to the eighteen bomber types between the B-2 and B-21?"
Spokesmodel: "It is not something we speak of."
 
I'm hoping they make a poster from the same viewing angle of the B-21s roll out. I have the poster of this that they handed out at the Dayton Air Show after it rolled out and would like one of the B-21 to place above it.

800px-B2_bomber_initial_rollout_ceremony_1988.jpg
 
I remember I was at ASD Pico Rivera during the B-2 roll-out in 1988, we all watched it big screens, really looking forward to the B-21 roll-out. I'm sure eventually you will see a B-2 and B-21 flying in formation plus there will be photos of the two on the ground. It seems NGC has evolved into the Flying Wing Company (B-2, B-21, RQ-180, ???).
 
Hydroman said:
I remember I was at ASD Pico Rivera during the B-2 roll-out in 1988, we all watched it big screens, really looking forward to the B-21 roll-out. I'm sure eventually you will see a B-2 and B-21 flying in formation plus there will be photos of the two on the ground. It seems NGC has evolved into the Flying Wing Company (B-2, B-21, RQ-180, ???).
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YB-49, YB-35, N-9M, N-1M

Jack Northrop was designing flying wings from 1928 on.
 
Everyone is expecting to be wowed i feel like. But the advancements are in the unseen materials, engines, electronics.

After the f117, B2, and yf23, its going to be pretty hard to be wowed by an outer mold line. Maybe if they reveal an aurora or tr3b or Millennium falcon... Then maybe
 
rooster said:
Everyone is expecting to be wowed i feel like. But the advancements are in the unseen materials, engines, electronics.

After the f117, B2, and yf23, its going to be pretty hard to be wowed by an outer mold line. Maybe if they reveal an aurora or tr3b or Millennium falcon... Then maybe
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Yeah, I'm thinking it's going to be more of a, "huh". They're basically rolling out a small B-2.
 
Getting a plane about half the payload of B-2, yet identical to B-52, and similar range of B-2, probably with the ability to be stored in conventional hangars, is more or less enough of an advancement. It's also coming in quantity rather than a paltry 20 bombers.

It makes perfect sense as a replacement for B-52 for the nuclear delivery role.
 
BlackBat242 said:
Hydroman said:
I remember I was at ASD Pico Rivera during the B-2 roll-out in 1988, we all watched it big screens, really looking forward to the B-21 roll-out. I'm sure eventually you will see a B-2 and B-21 flying in formation plus there will be photos of the two on the ground. It seems NGC has evolved into the Flying Wing Company (B-2, B-21, RQ-180, ???).
Click to expand...
YB-49, YB-35, N-9M, N-1M

Jack Northrop was designing flying wings from 1928 on.
Click to expand...
Correct, but I was referring to current programs and moving forward.
 

Northrop Grumman B-21 Unveiling May Answer Lingering Mysteries​

Steve Trimble November 14, 2022


Slightly more than 34 years after the rollout of the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit on Nov. 22, 1988, the U.S. Air Force plans to unveil the B-21 Raider to the public on Dec. 2.

The rollout from the company’s Site 4 complex within the Air Force’s Plant 42 in Palmdale, California, will provide the first glimpse of the physical aircraft since the launch of the Long-Range Strike Bomber (LRS-B) program over a decade ago.

The aircraft revealed during the rollout may seem very familiar, however. While most program information is classified, a perhaps surprising amount of detail about the B-21 Raider’s design, performance and capabilities has entered the public domain since the Pentagon awarded the LRS-B contract to Northrop on Oct. 27, 2015.

The Air Force has released three renderings of the bomber since 2016, showing the aircraft as viewed from above and below on the right side and from a level aspect on the left side. By comparison, the service released only a single rendering of the B-2 before its 1988 rollout, revealing its flying-wing shape and distinctive, sawtooth trailing edge.

Although described as falling short of photographic accuracy, the renderings consistently show a flying-wing bomber resembling the B-2’s familiar design, with certain critical differences.

In comparison to the B-2, the released B-21 renderings appear to reveal:


  • Extended, high-aspect-ratio, outboard wing sections compared with the B-2, which may offer improved lift characteristics at high altitude.
  • A single W-shaped trailing edge, which appears simplified compared with the double-W, sawtooth shape of the B-2. The latter was added by Northrop late in the B-2’s design phase due to a change in Air Force requirements, which changed to include a low-altitude penetration capability.
  • Inboard-canted, wingtop engine inlets. Instead of the B-2’s longitudinally flush, aft-canted inlets, the B-21 appears to deliver airflow to the engines through deeply embedded inboard-canted inlets.
  • A three-pane windscreen, including a single, central pane flanked by two upward-sloping, rectangular side windows. By comparison, the B-2 uses four windscreen panels that wrap around the cockpit. Program officials explain that the B-21’s windscreen design will be easier to maintain and should offer better visibility to the pilots during inflight refueling.
  • A two-wheel main landing gear. In comparison with the four-wheel bogies on the B-2, the B-21’s half-size gear, if accurately depicted, may indicate a smaller overall aircraft.
[end of excerpt]
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Northrop Grumman B-21 Unveiling May Answer Lingering Mysteries | Aviation Week Network

The U.S. Air Force has released many details about the mostly classified program, but much about the new stealth bomber remains secret
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
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