Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider (LRS-B)

trajan said:
Looks like the Chinese also think the b21's side mags are used for 174 or siaw
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Plus it's hardly "the Chinese", which infers the Chinese government, military or such. It's more like a random guy on the internet drawing stuff and speculating, who happens to be a Chinese national and thus writing in Chinese language.
 
timmymagic said:
E/O and IIR..which most would count as 1, data link to ground radar.
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Same link.
The Stunner uses radar and electro-optical sensors for guidance. The sensors are mounted on the unique dolphin shaped nose tip of the missile. The EO sensor acquires the target information during day and the IR sensor locates target in low light conditions. The Multi Mission Radar (MMR) of the system identifies the launch of the target rocket or missile. The radar is developed by Elta Systems, while its command and control system is supplied by Elbit Systems.
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trajan said:
Looks like the Chinese also think the b21's side mags are used for 174 or siaw
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The B-21 has fairly high bypass ratio engines. The side bays are close to the estimated engine location so they will most likely be fairly shallow. The weapon bay doors will be angled the same as the leading and trailing edges so the effective bay length will be much shorter.

I expect the shallow side bays to be AMRAAM depth to allow a dozen SDB while the main bay can have a rotary launcher with 6-8 large weapons.
 
Hydroman said:
Yes, outboard to inboard: MLG door, engine bay door, possible small weapons bay door(s)?, main weapons bay doors.
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You can clearly see the panels you are talking about, between the bomb bay doors and the engine access doors, are asymmetric. The left and right panels are different. So, not likely weapons bays. They're most likely access panels to engine accessories, housing some sort of sensors or avionics/test systems that require easy access.
 
Sandboxx has a video out about the first video footage of a B-21A refuelling in flight:


America’s new stealth bomber, the B-21 Raider, is continuing its steady march toward combat, and now, thanks to aviation photographer Jarod Hamilton, who goes by the name JMH.CREATES online, we just got our first glimpse of the most advanced stealth aircraft in the sky, conducting air-to-air refueling exercises, which is a vital component of any extended-range strategic bomber operation.​
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Just Another Lurker said:
@Cerberus21
Nice image! Would you mind sharing where you got it from? I've been looking at my usual sources and can't find it.

Anyway, here's some more pictures by JMH:
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I’d have to go back and look. It’s another spotter who is much less known. JMH is very active with phenomenal captures. I wish they would watermark their stuff.
 
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Hydroman said:
Yes, outboard to inboard: MLG door, engine bay door, possible small weapons bay door(s)?, main weapons bay doors.
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Spot on. We have two AMRAAM sized weapon bays near the front and we have mini-missile and decoy dispensers in the aft.

Red dashed line show the bays are the same on both sides. Long enough to fit approximately 2-3 AMRAAM or 6-8 Small diameter bomb.

Blue dashed line look similar to the F-35 decoy dispensers.

ABa21-First-flight-1.jpg
 
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insidersource said:
Spot on. We have two AMRAAM sized weapon bays near the front and we have mini-missile and decoy dispensers in the aft.

Red dashed line show the bays are the same on both sides. Long enough to fit approximately 2-3 AMRAAM or 6-8 Small diameter bomb.

Blue dashed line look similar to the F-35 decoy dispensers.

View attachment 805170
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Who is “we”?
 
I doubt the B-21 uses any chaff or flares, the B-2 is not equipped with them, doesn't need them.
 
insidersource said:
Spot on. We have two AMRAAM sized weapon bays near the front and we have mini-missile and decoy dispensers in the aft.

Red dashed line show the bays are the same on both sides. Long enough to fit approximately 2-3 AMRAAM or 6-8 Small diameter bomb.

Blue dashed line look similar to the F-35 decoy dispensers.

View attachment 805170
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This thread has been discussing this when the first flight of T-1 happened… The red dashed lines are panel seams with screw holes, which can be seen in the contrast-enhanced images, which makes them practically impossible to be missile bays…
 
 
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insidersource said:
Spot on. We have two AMRAAM sized weapon bays near the front and we have mini-missile and decoy dispensers in the aft.

Red dashed line show the bays are the same on both sides. Long enough to fit approximately 2-3 AMRAAM or 6-8 Small diameter bomb.

Blue dashed line look similar to the F-35 decoy dispensers.

View attachment 805170
Click to expand...

These have been identified as most likely avionics maintenance panels.
 
insidersource said:
We better stop discussing the B-21 having air-to-air missiles. The B-2 is not equipped with them, doesn't need them.


https://www.twz.com/air/b-21-taking-on-some-of-ngad-fighters-missions-on-the-table-air-force-says
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ke-aircraft-for-air-to-air-combat-2025.49657/

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/us-air-force-studying-b21-airtoair
View: https://youtu.be/NwDXgwQ54A4?si=EZ-l17tGz0iuH8YL
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Manned NGAD’s primary role is as a control station and sensor node. The B-21 can easily fulfill those missions without dedicated A2A weapons of any kind.

I sincerely doubt a $700 million aircraft would be used to fire medium range AAMs. I had thought it *might* have secondary small bays for ARM or self defense AAMs, but certainly it would never be tasked with direct engagements intentionally: launching a solid rocket missile is effectively marking the aircraft’s position in IR for over a hundred miles.

It is possible that B-21 might carry UAVs with AAMs like long shot or perhaps a large extremely long ranged a2a weapon for anti tanker/AEW work (more likely a multi domain weapon with an A2A mode), but it definitely is not going to be engaging fighters directly with AIM-120/260.
 
I could see the B-21A carrying several AIM-120s strictly for self-defence purposes.
 
Josh_TN said:
Manned NGAD’s primary role is as a control station and sensor node. The B-21 can easily fulfill those missions without dedicated A2A weapons of any kind.

I sincerely doubt a $700 million aircraft would be used to fire medium range AAMs. I had thought it *might* have secondary small bays for ARM or self defense AAMs, but certainly it would never be tasked with direct engagements intentionally: launching a solid rocket missile is effectively marking the aircraft’s position in IR for over a hundred miles.

It is possible that B-21 might carry UAVs with AAMs like long shot or perhaps a large extremely long ranged a2a weapon for anti tanker/AEW work (more likely a multi domain weapon with an A2A mode), but it definitely is not going to be engaging fighters directly with AIM-120/260.
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In my opinion it will have the capacity to deploy the Longshot anti air drone.
 
JoshuaH said:
I used to share this opinion, but now I saw the AF is seeking a stand-in attack weapon (probably rocket powered) for the B-21: https://www.defensenews.com/air/202...twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_dfn
The physics is probably still true. No idea how they are going to solve the launch signature issue…
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I thought AIM-260 was ramjet, which would have reduced IR signature, but of course I was thinking of Meteor. Maybe it is though? Self defence sie bays would have been nice but never mind.
 
JoshuaH said:
I used to share this opinion, but now I saw the AF is seeking a stand-in attack weapon (probably rocket powered) for the B-21: https://www.defensenews.com/air/202...twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_dfn
The physics is probably still true. No idea how they are going to solve the launch signature issue…
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True, but it is a lot more safe to hunt ground targets with a missile than to hunt a fighter that presumably has an IRST above the thickest part of the atmosphere and a huge speed advantage.
 
1773409019083.png
It looks like a translation of the measurements in the above image for @insidersource could help

1. Top right hand corner in red denotes the "long panel/ AAM bay" measurements: 1.7m wide x 6m long. 米 = m

insidersource said:
Spot on. We have two AMRAAM sized weapon bays near the front and we have mini-missile and decoy dispensers in the aft.

Red dashed line show the bays are the same on both sides. Long enough to fit approximately 2-3 AMRAAM or 6-8 Small diameter bomb.

Blue dashed line look similar to the F-35 decoy dispensers.

View attachment 805170
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2. In your own zoomed in shot, it's clear that even you yourself thinks the same area marked out by @trajan 's picture is bifurcated. Or else you would have drawn the red lines around the entire long panel. Rounding up, 6m translates to about 20 ft (19.685ft). half that and you're still more than 2 ft short.
1773410595259.png

3. Some extremely seedy math to estimate perspective problems since the B-21 is going to be closer to the viewer than the KC135 is: The KC-135's measurements are more well known, so I assume the guy used KC-135 measurements to estimate the B-21's own measurement. Most aerial refueling happens between 15,000 - 30,000 ft. If we assume the KC-135's probe is 48 ft long fully extended and drops down 30 degrees from the horizon, 48sin(30) = 24 ft height difference. We assume crudely that the B-21 is 24ft closer to the view point (simplistically) than the KC-135. 15000ft / 14976ft is roughly a 0.16% difference in dimension size. Even at the lowest bound, perspective alone cannot make up for the remaining 2 ft in length - that is unless my math is off and I need to go back to middle school (which I might need to)

So unless that slant in the panel is enough to make up for 2 ft (I highly doubt it can), or you are willing to argue that the front section of the panel is 2 ft longer than the aft section, or missiles are tucked diagonally into the panel, then I'm not sure how that's going to fit AMRAAMs - as much as I would like it to.


The aerial refueling photo in higher contrast to see the bifurcation line of that particular panel. You can clearly see that panel is roughly bisected by the slanted panel seam:

1773411923520.png 1773411991125.png
 

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