Addendum.


The MRSS project will develop a single design to replace the two LPDs HMS Albion and Bulwark, the three LSD(A)s RFA Mounts Bay, Cardigan Bay and Lyme Bay together with RFA Argus.

One type replacing three. The worrying bit is 'up to' instead of 'at least.'

Photos and silhouettes of the vessels to be replaced are in the header graphic. The rendering is of BMT's ELLIDA.

Multi-Role-Support-Ship.jpg
 
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Addendum.


The government says that “up to six” MRSS will replace a variety of in-service vessels, including two Albion class landing platform docks, three Bay class landing ship dock (auxiliaries), and the aviation support ship RFA Argus, in the early 2030s.

One type replacing three. The worrying bit is 'up to' instead of 'at least.'
Very much agree there. Needs to be "at least" six, if not a complete 1-for-1 replacement of all the ships.
 
Yes, in the interview, the company rep says that while it carries less than, say the ELLIDA, survivability of the battalion overall is enhanced by distributing it over more than one vessel while the design's improved efficiency can allow a larger number to be built and deployed.

The fact that it has significant defensive and offensive capability of its own compared to others of the general concept might be an advantage, considering what's happening in the Red Sea now and its implications for procurement policy.
The problem is ensuring there are adequate numbers of amphibious hulls. A 6 unit program represents the bare minimum when each ship is essentially carrying only a single company. If you produce something the size of a cruiser, fully kitted out with the systems of a full on escort, affordability is a real issue. A likely scenario is a truncated 3 hull program with the availability of only a single operational unit at a time. The commando brigade will amount to the operational equivalent of an under equipped company. Maybe that’s all the UK will be able to field in any case?
 
Addendum.


The MRSS project will develop a single design to replace the two LPDs HMS Albion and Bulwark, the three LSD(A)s RFA Mounts Bay, Cardigan Bay and Lyme Bay together with RFA Argus.

One type replacing three. The worrying bit is 'up to' instead of 'at least.'

Photos and silhouettes of the vessels to be replaced are in the header graphic. The rendering is of BMT's ELIIDA.

View attachment 729946
With the increasing improbability of actual shipbuilding in Belfast, the RN might as well wrap the Fleet Solid Support requirement into MRSS as well.
 
Specific MRSS requirements in terms of overall force structure may affect or be affected by the Type 32 and Fleet Solid Support Ship.

This article dates from 2020, when the MRSS was still the Littoral Strike Ship.


While the 8 Type 26 frigates (also known as the City-class) and 5 Type 31 frigates were already planned to be procured, the real surprise in today’s announcement is the mention for the first time of the “Type 32”. Early rumors associated the term with an export variant of Type 31, T4X (Type 45 destroyer replacement), the Littoral Strike Ship project (which appears to be abandoned) or even a typo. Naval News learned from a reliable UK source that this is in fact some sort of “pre program” put in place for budgetary reasons in anticipation of a future potential “Type 31 Batch 2”. The source added that this potential “Type 31 Batch 2” may not necessarily be based on the Type 31 design.

Since then, Babcock and BAE Systems have released concepts for the Type 32 but no formal requirement has been issued. The Babcock proposal is a modified Type 31 while the BAE design is a clean sheet, optimised for strike.



The National Shipbuilding Strategy as of 2022 was to have the Type 32 as a drone mothership while both Babcock and (even more so) BAE have emphasised littoral strike. If the MRSS is to take a more aggressive role rather than just delivering troops, as looks likely, then I expect some delay in formulating the exact Type 32 requirements until they've worked out how it's going to work with the MRSS. Probably the drone support role will be emphasised and both of the released design proposals will undergo some changes.


As for the Fleet Solid Support Ship, this is the latest article I found. Contracts are going out, so it looks certain to remain a separate programme, suggesting that the MRSS will indeed be less logistics-biased and tilt more to offence/defence of troops. ELLIDA only has weapons for self-defence ('Daleks'), while Fearless has proper guns and missiles. Under the scenario I've described, that design probably has the edge.

By the way, Albion and Bulwark are Royal Navy combat vessels and are 'HMS' while the other ships are Royal Fleet Auxiliary, 'RFA'. All MRSS's will be 'HMS' and the FSSS's 'RFA' I guess.


Now there is a general election imminent in the UK, and the polls strongly indicate a Labour victory. Barring divine/diabolical (depending on your opinion) intervention, Keir Starmer will be the UK's next prime minister. He's spent years making it clear that he's not Jeremy Corbyn, so I don't think that there will be any major upset in plans for the RN.
 
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Look, we have a general election on 4 July. The focus of all politicians is now on getting elected. The civil servants won't be able to get any decision on anything major before then. Whoever comes to power, except (probably?) the Tories will immediately order a Defence Review, so causing further delay to everything in the current plan!!! Who knows what the outcome will then be. So all speculation at present is a complete waste of time.

Cynical? Moi!!!!
 
Specific MRSS requirements in terms of overall force structure may affect or be affected by the Type 32 and Fleet Solid Support Ship.

This article dates from 2020, when the MRSS was still the Littoral Strike Ship.


While the 8 Type 26 frigates (also known as the City-class) and 5 Type 31 frigates were already planned to be procured, the real surprise in today’s announcement is the mention for the first time of the “Type 32”. Early rumors associated the term with an export variant of Type 31, T4X (Type 45 destroyer replacement), the Littoral Strike Ship project (which appears to be abandoned) or even a typo. Naval News learned from a reliable UK source that this is in fact some sort of “pre program” put in place for budgetary reasons in anticipation of a future potential “Type 31 Batch 2”. The source added that this potential “Type 31 Batch 2” may not necessarily be based on the Type 31 design.

Since then, Babcock and BAE Systems have released concepts for the Type 32 but no formal requirement has been issued. The Babcock proposal is a modified Type 31 while the BAE design is a clean sheet, optimised for strike.



The National Shipbuilding Strategy as of 2022 was to have the Type 32 as a drone mothership while both Babcock and (even more so) BAE have emphasised littoral strike. If the MRSS is to take a more aggressive role rather than just delivering troops, as looks likely, then I expect some delay in formulating the exact Type 32 requirements until they've worked out how it's going to work with the MRSS. Probably the drone support role will be emphasised and both of the released design proposals will undergo some changes.


As for the Fleet Solid Support Ship, this is the latest article I found. Contracts are going out, so it looks certain to remain a separate programme, suggesting that the MRSS will indeed be less logistics-biased and tilt more to offence/defence of troops. ELLIDA only has weapons for self-defence ('Daleks'), while Fearless has proper guns and missiles. Under the scenario I've described, that design probably has the edge.

By the way, Albion and Bulwark are Royal Navy combat vessels and are 'HMS' while the other ships are Royal Fleet Auxiliary, 'RFA'. All MRSS's will be 'HMS' and the FSSS's 'RFA' I guess.


Now there is a general election imminent in the UK, and the polls strongly indicate a Labour victory. Barring divine/diabolical (depending on your opinion) intervention, Keir Starmer will be the UK's next prime minister. He's spent years making it clear that he's not Jeremy Corbyn, so I don't think that there will be any major upset in plans for the RN.
The problem with FSSS is that treasury is balking at handing £200m to a seemingly defunct shipyard that is only worth £20m and mostly likely isn’t able to raise a skilled workforce from the local population of Belfast. I don’t see how FSSS will be able to pass the inevitable review of a new government. Even after a sweeping and historical win, I somehow doubt the new government will be eager to fund the predictable and inevitable embarrassment of delays and cost overruns. Unless Navantia can be allowed to get on with the job, I can’t see a future for FSSS aside from years of delays.
 
The MRSS project will develop a single design to replace the two LPDs HMS Albion and Bulwark, the three LSD(A)s RFA Mounts Bay, Cardigan Bay and Lyme Bay together with RFA Argus.

For what it’s worth, I ran some rough numbers on the level of capability each MRSS would need to match the existing fleet (assuming 6x MRSS hulls). Here’s what I got:

300 pax
650 lane meters
Aviation: 2x Merlin helos in hangar + 1x stowed on deck, 1 Chinook sized landing spot
Landing craft: 2 LCUs in dock + 2 LCVPs in davits

Maybe start there and discuss what capability needs to be added / removed?

Personally, I’m going to play around with a minimum sized flat deck (10,000-11,000 tons) similar to HDW’s MHD 10000 or Damen’s small Enforcer LHD concepts.
 
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The Dutch are seeking to replace their 4 Holland class OPV commissioned 2012/13 AND their two LPD (Rotterdam & Johan De Witt) with a single class of 6 ships of a size lying somewhere between these two types, but we don't yet know where on that spectrum.

So maybe the Steller design will come nearer to meeting their needs.
No, it won't. By all accounts the Dutch are looking at something closer to the flat-top multi purpose vessel that Damen is constructing for the Portugese navy, only bigger. And hopefully better armed.

Apparently there's a serious push for extensive (fixed-wing) drone flight capabilities, and for that you need a flat top.
 
For what it’s worth, I ran some rough numbers on the level of capability each MRSS would need to match the existing fleet (assuming 6x MRSS hulls). Here’s what I got:

300 pax
650 lane meters
Aviation: 2x Merlin helos in hangar + 1x stowed on deck, 1 Chinook sized landing spot
Landing craft: 2 LCUs in dock + 2 LCVPs in davits

Maybe start there and discuss what capability needs to be added / removed?

Personally, I’m going to play around with a minimum sized flat deck (10,000-11,000 tons) similar to HDW’s MHD 10000 or Damen’s small Enforcer LHD concepts.

Do Damen still offer a 'through deck' LHD as on their website they all seem to be LPD type with a full width superstructure forward.
 
Do Damen still offer a 'through deck' LHD as on their website they all seem to be LPD type with a full width superstructure forward.

Place taken by their new multi purpose support ship range.
 

Place taken by their new multi purpose support ship range.

Also, just because the through-deck configurations of LHD are not shown on the Damen website doesn't mean they would not offer them if asked or the requirement called for it.

For reference, they had specs for quite a few different LHDs configured either with full-width superstructures or through decks.

1716750033722.png
 
Also, just because the through-deck configurations of LHD are not shown on the Damen website doesn't mean they would not offer them if asked or the requirement called for it.

For reference, they had specs for quite a few different LHDs configured either with full-width superstructures or through decks.

View attachment 730083

Thats the one i'd seen many many many years ago, and have the JPEG, but couldn't find again in their current offerings.
 
Thats the one i'd seen many many many years ago, and have the JPEG, but couldn't find again in their current offerings.

I figured. Just thought I'd drop it here for posterity.
 
I figured. Just thought I'd drop it here for posterity.
Cannot really see why everyone went for the LPD option and didn't factor in possible changes over time....I assume costs.....something I didn't see on those graphics was the cost differences.
 
Cannot really see why everyone went for the LPD option and didn't factor in possible changes over time....I assume costs.....something I didn't see on those graphics was the cost differences.

The through-decks have a raised upper deck (presumably mostly for hangar) but they seem to lose a bunch of volume in the superstructure that could be used for other functions. It's a tradeoff.
 
Look, we have a general election on 4 July. The focus of all politicians is now on getting elected. The civil servants won't be able to get any decision on anything major before then. Whoever comes to power, except (probably?) the Tories will immediately order a Defence Review, so causing further delay to everything in the current plan!!! Who knows what the outcome will then be. So all speculation at present is a complete waste of time.

Cynical? Moi!!!!
Ah, but are you cynical enough? :)

Yes, reviews, delays and reorganisation are inevitable to serve various MPs delusions of relevance, but in the end I'd expect some part of this scenario come to pass. Albion and Bulwark are in urgent need of replacement and a 'strike frigate' isn't going to be adequate. To me, the fate of the Type 32 seems the most uncertain.

Anyway, speculation exercises the mind and it's fun.
 
Interesting choice. I suspect that the ship will end up pretty close to the size of the LPDs, though. Carrying ~200 Marines and the extra stuff to carry them to the objective.
The Stellar design is to large. There is little information but the length of 150 m is a rumor. It is also very possible that the Dutch will go for 6 small LHD's with a full deck for 2 helicopters (2 or 3 NH-90 will be carried in the hangar but capable of landing CH-47/V-22's on its deck) and a additional hangar voor UAV's. The amount of ~200 Troops is a almost confirmed number, the MOD announced that 3 of the new ships would be needed to replace the capacity of 1 of the current LPD's. This means dividing 6 helo's, ~600 marines, 4 LCVP's + 2 LCU's onto 3 new vessels.
 
Also, just because the through-deck configurations of LHD are not shown on the Damen website doesn't mean they would not offer them if asked or the requirement called for it.

For reference, they had specs for quite a few different LHDs configured either with full-width superstructures or through decks.

View attachment 730083
I know they still offer them but not publicly, a few years ago Damen confirmed they still had the LHD's in their catalogue.
 
The Stellar design is to large. There is little information but the length of 150 m is a rumor. It is also very possible that the Dutch will go for 6 small LHD's with a full deck for 2 helicopters (2 or 3 NH-90 will be carried in the hangar but capable of landing CH-47/V-22's on its deck) and a additional hangar voor UAV's. The amount of ~200 Troops is a almost confirmed number, the MOD announced that 3 of the new ships would be needed to replace the capacity of 1 of the current LPD's. This means dividing 6 helo's, ~600 marines, 4 LCVP's + 2 LCU's onto 3 new vessels.
Hrm.

I'd want to add a few extra LCVPs and LCUs to the mix, plus at least have space for more helos.

Call it: 2x helos and flight deck space for 2 more, 200 marines, 2x LCVPs and 1x LCU per ship.

This increases the total capacity of 3 such ships to: space for 12 helos, 600 Marines, 6x LCVPs, and 3x LCUs.

This will also require some reorganization of the Marine unit, so that it can split into 3x roughly equally sized and capable chunks. The USN/USMC doesn't do that, they split the MEU across 3 different class ships each with their own focus. LHA, LPD, and LST. LST got the tank platoon when that was a thing and the LAV company. LPD got the AAVs and a chunk of the grunts to ride in them. LHA got all the helos, obviously, and it carried that chunk of Marines ashore in helos.

Does the Royal Marine Commando unit as employed bring any tanks? If so, I'd want to have space for a tank platoon in each MRSS. (I always thought that the weakness of the USMC MEU was only bringing a platoon of tanks for the battalion. A company of tanks is a much better addition.)
 
Suddenly, the Fearless concept starts to make sense. Steller Systems is really trying to sell their Hulltune software to the industry. Getting 30 knots on 32MW with a rather beamy 15,500 tonne hull is quite impressive. https://ukdj.imgix.net/2024/05/Render-9-Ortho-Top.png

Take away some of the excessive superstructure, which is no doubt devoted to accomodations, add more VLS cells, and this would be an impressive base for the Type 83 “destroyer.” Before anyone complains about the excessive size, someone has estimated that the most recent BAE concept scales out to 180 meters long!

In the end, I do think this is more about the software than the ship concept. The clever hull form is to be commended, though.
 

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