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MiG's from Kirtland AFB

Dynoman

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I asked Mr. Peck, through a follow up email, some additional questions. For those who are interested I am posting a couple of the responses here.

One question involved the procedure for checking out a new Red Eagle pilot on the MiG's since there were no two-seat trainers available for any of the RE MiGs.

"We briefed with an experienced pilot on the systems, emergency procedures as we understood them and general operating procedures like stick back takeoff airspeed, lift off airspeed, A/B out airspeed, climb airspeed, Traffic pattern airspeeds and configurations on initial, downwind, base and final and short final. We got a lot of cockpit time just studying the layout and visualizing the various phases of flight. Then we went back to the experienced pilot, got questions answered and reviewed the details. Next was a supervised start with an NCO on a ladder over the canopy rail making sure we didn't overtemp the engine or have a hot start. The gauges were all analog so the only odd ball was rpm which was actual rpm instead of % of rpm as in our jets. But, that was a numbers game. You just learned the numbers and then read the gauges. After the start we taxied the aircraft out to the runway. This was a challenge because there is no nosewheel steering in the MiG-17 and -21 (there is in the -23). The nose gear castors and turns when the left or right main brake is applied. The brake handle is on the stick below the trigger. When squeezed the pneumatic system in the jet applies air to both main gear brakes. To turn, the rudder pedal is pushed in the direction of turn and that releases the brake on the opposite side permitting the nose wheel to castor generating the turn. Easy to say. Hard to do. Took a while to get the feel of how much and how soon and how hard to push the rudder pedal, etc. A lot of zig zag vs a straight line at the beginning. And, the jets did not have on-board compressors so the pneumatic air had to be serviced before flight and conserved. On the runway we closed the canopy, ran through the checks, pushed the power up released the brakes and lit the A/B. After a short run we chopped the power, deployed the drag chute (MiG-21) and used main and nose wheel braking (MiG-21) to stop. Nose wheel braking was turned off (MiG-21) with an electrical switch and taxi back was normal. We debriefed as though we had flown and then went and did it again, exactly the same way. The only big difference was noting the pitch attitude of the jet at the moment of lift off as that would be the same approximate attitude to look for during the landing flare. We climbed out, did some turns, aileron boost on and off in the -17, did some stall approaches gear up and down and then some aerobatics like chandelles and lazy 8s, rolls, cloverleaf, etc. On the second flight we started to air fight both offensively and defensively. We were chased by a T-38 flown by the experienced MiG pilot on the early flights. That should give you an idea."

Another question relating to HAVE ZINC and the confidence in the KM-1M ejection seat.

"I have never heard of HAVE ZINC. That said, as far as I know Hugh Brown never initiated ejection from the MiG-17 and was killed upon impact. Mark Posti bellied a MiG-17 into the desert and I've been told he said it was such a rough ride he would never do it again. As an aside two pilots were recently killed in S NV at the Boulder City Airport after belly landing an L-39 that lost power on takeoff. The aircraft looked OK after the crash but both of the guys were killed (testifying to the rough ride involved in a desert landing). Posti was killed when he ejected from a MiG-23 on short final at Tonopah. I don't know details as to whether he was out of the envelop or not. The commander(3rd after me) George Gennin seemed to think there was a confidence problem with the pyro. I don't know. During my time there we never talked or thought much about ejecting from what we considered to be National Assets. And, our maintenance reliability was so good that we didn't even preflight the aircraft before we flew (during my time there). Two other pilots safely ejected from a MiG-21 and a MiG-23. There were some issues with the MiG-23 regarding the baro settings in the seat that resulted in a very late and low altitude man-seat separation, but the pilot was fine. We didn't have tech data for stuff like that."

Mr. Peck is a super gentleman and a hero in my book. I look forward to receiving his latest RE picture book.
 

Richard N

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Is there any knowledge of this kind of operation being done on the other side: Acquired western aircraft being used to train non-NATO forces? Something like Iranian F-14s flown against Russian fighters.
 

Dynoman

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Richard...According to the book MiG-29 by Y. Gordon, page 230-233:

"In 1989 the first MiG-29s were delivered to the 1521st Air Base located at Maryy-1 AB (pronounced like the French name Marie) in Turkmenia. This was a very special oufit within the structure of the Soviet Air Force. In the early 1970's the top of the Soviet AF decided that the valuable experience of aerial combat gained in the Arab-Israeli wars should be put to good use and implemented in all units. Also, the top command was aware that that the USAF and US Navy had set up a special 'aggressor' squadrons emulating the performance of Soviet fighters and Soviet tactics in order to train thier own pilots..."

The Soviet 'aggressor' group painted insignia (nose art) on its MiG-29's to mimic the artwork found on western aircraft, such as shark mouths, tail art, and 'brandy stripes.' Those who participated in the activity and scored 100% on its 'aggressor' training curriculum received a red kill star painted under the pilot's MiG canopy.
 

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Dynoman

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"...Therefore it was decided to establish the Soviet AF's own aggressor unit. While this name is not found in any official Soviet document, informally the 1521st Air Base was known as the 'aggressor unit' among fighter jocks...Each fighter regiment arriving at Maryy-1 AB for a check-up had to complete the following disciplines: Checkup of the individual pilots flying skills, including complex maneuvers and aerobatics; ultra low level flying over terrain devoid of natural landmarks (desert areas); dogfighting and check-up of the units QRA performance; Tactical exercises performaed by the entire regiment and individual squadrons; live missile launch and gunnery practice against remote control target drones."

It appears to me to have been a kind of smaller scale 'Red Flag' type of activity at Marry-1 AB. There were plans to add a MiG-23 to the unit to replicate some of the VG configured fighters, but the plan was canceled according to Y. Gordon. The 24 MiG-29s and some MiG trainers of the base were eventually sent to other units at Zherdyovka.

As far as any western aircraft used in DACT type training similar to the USAF/Navy CONSTANT PEG activity I have not heard or read of any, outside of the exploitation programs of the F-5, AT-37, etc.
 

Richard N

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Dynoman,

Thanks for the information on Top Gunski. Is anything known about the Russians getting to analyze the F-14s in Iran?

Richard
 

Dynoman

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According to Tom Cooper and Farzad Bishop's book, Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat, by Osprey Publishing, of page 49, "US Department of Defense file states that in 1983 the Iraqi's supplied the wreckage of several Iranian aircraft to the Soviets, including part of an F-14A and a badly damaged AIM-54A that was found near the same wreck. The circumstances under which this Tomcat was lost remain unknown, but this information was confirmed by Vafiq al-Samerai, the former head of Iraqi Military Intelligence. He stated that the remains of an Iranian F-14 had been loaded into a Soviet transport aircraft at al-Taqaddum air base, west of Baghdad."
 

Ju388

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I try to remain quiet and read look and learn. This is the best message site hands on the web. But this RedEagle group once had a Mig 9? What happened to that? I would really like to see a primordial Russian jet. Thankyou all again.
Mike
 

Dynoman

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Ju388, the Red Eagles specialized in contemporary Warsaw Pact aircraft exploitation of their era (Red Eagle operated from 1977-1988). The earliest exploitation and evaluation program of Soviet jet aircraft by the USAF was the MiG-15 acquired from a defecting pilot in September 1953 (Operation Moolah). A Yak-23 was tested by the USAF in November 1953 after a Romanian pilot flew to Yugoslavia. The Yak was sent to Wright Field for evaluations.
 

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Desert Watchdog

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crossiathh said:
seruriermarshal said:
MIG-23 and MIG-21
The MiG-23UB is from a Soviet movie and was not in the US.

Sorry to bump an old post, but I was curious if you had the name of the movie that the MiG-23UB in U.S. Air Force making came from, or a source? I've been looking for info on the UB picture that seruriermarshal posted (having found it in a random image search on Google) as there hasn't been any info on them being used for any of the T&E or training programs in the books I've read. This info could help me stop my search if it really is from a damn movie! :eek:
 

Mr London 24/7

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seruriermarshal said:
USAF SU-27 from groom

Aviation watcher Gariac has posted a few pics (dated November 2016) on his website of a Sukhoi SU-27 dog fighting with an F-16 above the Power Line Overlook, NV. Photos donated by a Phil Drake:

http://www.lazygranch.com/groom_lake_birds.htm
 

Flyaway

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This seems the best thread to put this new article.

 

Dynoman

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Disposition of the Lim (MiGs) from Kirtland AFB.

 

bolkow15

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Any information about this aggresor squadron from Kirtland AFB? Succesor Red Eagles?

aircrafts:
An-2, s/n ?, brought from Poland AF ?
Mi-2, s/n ?, brought from Poland AF ?
SBLim-1 „red 038“, s/n 1A 06-038, brought from Poland AF (1988)
Lim-5 „red 010“, s/n 1C 10-10, brought from Poland AF (1988)
Lim-5 „red 303“, s/n 1C 13-03, brought from Poland AF (1988)
Lim-5 „red 406“, s/n 1C 04-06, brought from Poland AF (1988)
Lim-5R „red 905“, s/n 1C 19-05, brought from Poland AF (1988)
Lim-6M „red 511“, s/n 1D 05-11, brought from Poland AF (1988)
Lim-6MR „red 634“, s/n 1D 06-34, brought from Poland AF (1988)
The Mi-2 was marked as 0541. The only Polish '0541 is reported as w/o August 2nd 1988. If this is the same aircraft, it looked ok parked up at Kirtland in September 1989.
 

Dynoman

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galgot

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Posted these a while ago on another forum, I repost it here for sake a conservation and may be of interest.
some good size picts of "Red 39" from the US Air Force’s 4477th Test Squadron are downloadable here :
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/ ... flogger-e/
Plane is being exposed at the National USAF Museum.
Note the grey came paint is peeling in some places, showing original desert camp.
And a vid :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za_ejYp2exo

At 00:01:59, a red number 4314 inside the nose gear door caught my eyes .
4314.jpg
So this should be the serial number 124004314 and the according Egyptian bord number 9505.
Here still while Egyptian Air Force :
9505.jpg

Also this interesting thread with good picts of what remains of "Red 44", MiG-23MS from the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron.
 
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Archibald

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And with the MiG-23 being a real bastard to fly, they must have had some fun...
 

galgot

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And with the MiG-23 being a real bastard to fly, they must have had some fun...
Yes. Specially the fact that they got the MS , which was a dog.
Early MiG-23 versions, S, MS, MF, were apparently "unfinished" products rushed into service.
But from the ML to last versions , there was big changes on the airframe and most troubles were solved, and was in fact well liked.
With problems solved and the power/weight ratio it had, was really a bomb.

Not a Have Pad plane, but very interesting :
View: https://youtu.be/5gbZi2YTxyc
 
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