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MiG-29 heat seekers

Dilbert

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Some questions for our European friends:

(a) I have seen a photo of Slovak MiG-29 carrying a Python AAM [1], but I can't access it. Is there such a photo on the web? I would like to post it to a forum, as evidence that the aircraft can really carry this weapon.

(b) Is there any news about the question, whether Slovak 9.12 can employ R-27T missile, and why/why not? It seems odd that it should be able to employ heat-seekers of foreign manufacture, but not Russian.

(c) Did the Slovak MiG-29 receive some special upgrade to use Python?

Sources:
- KREATIV multimedia, "Unveiled Secrets No.1 : MiG-29", 2002
 

mrdetonator

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Dilbert said:
Some questions for our European friends:

(a) I have seen a photo of Slovak MiG-29 carrying a Python AAM [1], but I can't access it. Is there such a photo on the web? I would like to post it to a forum, as evidence that the aircraft can really carry this weapon.

(b) Is there any news about the question, whether Slovak 9.12 can employ R-27T missile, and why/why not? It seems odd that it should be able to employ heat-seekers of foreign manufacture, but not Russian.

(c) Did the Slovak MiG-29 receive some special upgrade to use Python?

Sources:
- KREATIV multimedia, "Unveiled Secrets No.1 : MiG-29", 2002

a. when the picture is on screen, leave the multimedia application, the picture will remain on your desktop, then push the "print screen" keyboard button and insert to a image viewer(e.g. Irfan view) by pushing CTRL+V and save.

b. the R-27T was never delivered, so what news would you like to hear? AFAIK the APU launcher contains nitrogen bottle, which is assigned only for the R-27T use.

c. I`am not aware of any upgrade to the Python AAM, but in case you thought about french Magic-2, the missile had adapted cabling inside the APU only.
 

Dilbert

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mrdetonator said:
b. the R-27T was never delivered, so what news would you like to hear? AFAIK the APU launcher contains nitrogen bottle, which is assigned only for the R-27T use.

Hmm, was that how our discussion last ended? That 9.12 CAN use R-27T? I must have become confused. My Russian researcher friends couldn't find any evidence that 9.12 could use it, only 9.13. I thought that perhaps since R-27T has an autopilot, that it must be correctly recognized and programmed by the fighter weapons system - unlike a normal heat-seeker that gives just a lock tone in the headset. Somewhere I heard from a pilot that R-60 provides a lock tone, R-23T does not. I don't know about R-73. Maybe there are some differences?

c. I`am not aware of any upgrade to the Python AAM, but in case you thought about french Magic-2, the missile had adapted cabling inside the APU only.

Ah Magic 2, my mistake. Thanks, I found a photo through Google since my primary CD-ROM drive is broken (and the software insists that it can only use the primary one! ???)
 

Pit

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Hmm, was that how our discussion last ended? That 9.12 CAN use R-27T? I must have become confused. My Russian researcher friends couldn't find any evidence that 9.12 could use it, only 9.13. I thought that perhaps since R-27T has an autopilot, that it must be correctly recognized and programmed by the fighter weapons system - unlike a normal heat-seeker that gives just a lock tone in the headset. Somewhere I heard from a pilot that R-60 provides a lock tone, R-23T does not. I don't know about R-73. Maybe there are some differences?

Now, are you suggesting that R-27T is a Lock-after-launch missile with an /inertial/ phase that needs such an autopilot?...could you explain a little better?.

Thanks!.
 

Dilbert

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No, we know it has no datalink, and we know it's lock-on-before-launch from the available documentation, so to be honest I don't know what the autopilot is there for. Maybe some minor trajectory optimization, because proportional navigation might be too draggy for such a large weapon?
 

Pit

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Dilbert said:
No, we know it has no datalink, and we know it's lock-on-before-launch from the available documentation, so to be honest I don't know what the autopilot is there for. Maybe some minor trajectory optimization, because proportional navigation might be too draggy for such a large weapon?

I think I know why did it need it, maybe because the R-27R1 needs to do the "security maneuver" after separation from aircraft, 0.5 seconds after launch (check Combat Methodology Manual), I guess an R-27T would need to do this maneuver too...and so it would need an autopilot to pull down the missile and then up towards the target...
 

mrdetonator

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Dilbert said:
Hmm, was that how our discussion last ended? That 9.12 CAN use R-27T? I must have become confused. My Russian researcher friends couldn't find any evidence that 9.12 could use it, only 9.13.
Really, did I say that? I do remember a discussion about launching the R-27T from the AKU-470. Well, maybe you should double-check your email archive what I wrote you two years ago. I`m wondering if you are still hunting answers for the same questions?
 

Dilbert

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No worries, I still hunt for answers even after I have the answers. ;) It's amazing what information turns up!
 

mrdetonator

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Dilbert said:
No worries, I still hunt for answers even after I have the answers. ;) It's amazing what information turns up!
yes, but being more sceptical because the last answer hasn`t satisfied you as much as the previous one, so still looking for the thruth out there... ;)
 

Dilbert

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They are not always my personal doubts. Sometimes even if I am convinced, others are not, so I have to keep looking. :(
 

Slick

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Our situation was very simple: 9.12B does not allow different types of IR missiles to be placed on single aircraft. They of course can be physically hung, but system will not recognize such configuration and won't fire anything. So you need to choose one IR missile type for that particular aircraft.
 

mrdetonator

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Slick said:
Our situation was very simple: 9.12B does not allow different types of IR missiles to be placed on single aircraft. They of course can be physically hung, but system will not recognize such configuration and won't fire anything. So you need to choose one IR missile type for that particular aircraft.
Interesting,the Warshaw pact 9.12A weapon computer handles only two guided AAM at once with the built-in onboard gun. So, the IR missile configuration may vary,e.g. 4xR-60, 2xR-73 and the system will recognize them. The problem occurs when you attach a third missile, the combo R-27, R-73, R-60 won`t work.
 

Slick

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It was misunderstanding with my source, our case is same Mrdetonator mentioned... sorry guys #@@$! happens :-\
 

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