Me P1101-102 Advise Please

[Flitzer]

Hi All.
I'm currently trying to do a profile of the Me P1101-102.
The only reference I have is Heinz Rode's beautiful illustration on page 110 in Luftwaffe Secret Projects - Strategic Bombers 1935 - 1945.

I've borrowed a few keyline shapes from the P1101- 103 and think I would have been better off using the general fuselage/tail shape of the 101.
The top view seems okay but I'm not happy with the side view.

Any suggestions or other references anyone may point me to?

Many thanks in advance.
Peter

 

[Jemiba]

Can't say something about the shape of the tail, but I think, the position of the rear
lateral guns should be checked. To my opinion, they are either too low on the fuselage,
or the mountings would have to protrude quite far from the fuselage, probably making the
installation aerodynamically unsound. I've tried to sketch, what I mean : Black is the position,
the guns are shown in side- and upper side view, red is, what the cross section of an installation
as shown would be (severely limiting gun movement) and green, the position the guns could be.
Things of course would change, if the rear fuselage would be pear shaped, but I cannot see any hint
for that.

 

[Flitzer]

Many thanks Jemiba.

A great help.
I'd just plopped the lateral guns there as a more or less place while I concentrated on the overall fuselage shape. But it is of invaluable help or will be when I do the final detailing.

Also I must admit I must be going blind or dense or both. At the top of the same page is a basic 3-view of the 102. Not much in the way of detail.
I completely overlooked it as I thought it was a part of the 103 next to it. Just call me daft.
At least I have the general shape and proportions now and that is what I was looking for.
On the plus side I'm happy to see the top view is not too far away from what it should be.

Many thanks again for taking the trouble to illustrate, much appreciated.

Cheers
Peter
;D

 

[Boogey]

The photos and drawings originate from Marek Murawski " Samoloty Luftwaffe " t. 2.
The Messerschmitt P.1101 differs a little from that of Yours, but I can't help
as I'm interesting only in those Luftwaffe aircraft with RLM numeration system.
If don't understand anything of Polish captions I translate it for You

In addition I enclose drawings of Messerschmitt P.1110 and Messerschmitt P.1111.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Some help here (Post-1)

 

[Justo Miranda]

Some help here (Post-2)

 

[Justo Miranda]

Some help here (Post-3)

 

[Flitzer]

Wow.
Many thanks.

Boogey
Cesc
There was another series of P1101 besides the fighter you kindly show. The other P1101's were bomber concepts.
And if I get stuck for Polish translation I will take you up on your kind offer. My wife is Polish so it will be anything aeronautical she might not understand, even in Popolsku.

Djenki
(My spelling is poor, but I know piwo ).

Justo.
What can I say? Always to my rescue. Many thanks.

I think I've cracked it now. I'm working on the more accurate version as we speak (or is it type?). I'll post when keylined.

Many thanks again.
Peter

 

[Flitzer]

Re-worked top view.
A much more elegant design than I first thought and my first attempt of course.

Side view soon.

Many thanks
Peter

 

[Boogey]

@ Flitzer You're

, I'm always Yours to command

Please, say to Your wife : POZDROWIENIA OD BOOGEY'EGO Z WARSZAWY.

 

[Flitzer]

Hi again

I've now done a new side view, which should be a bit more accurate.

Boogey
I certainly will, when I see her.
She's in Warszawa visiting her parents at the moment.

Cheers
Peter

 

[son altesse]

Amazing work Peter, as well
I can wait to build this one as model !!!

 

[Flitzer]

Thank you Son Altesse.

I've got a little further with it and will post soon.

I've been overlooking the profiles a little recently due to me fending for myself in my wifes' absence.
You know...go to work, come home, see to Patch the cat, cook and feed myself and get stuck in on lots of little jobs around the house and garden. ;D

Peter

 

[Flitzer]

As promised
How far I've got.

Many thanks
Peter

 

[Flitzer]

I also have a few questions concerning the Me P1101 - 104 if I may ask?

I'm a little stumped to how the panels around the twinned engine cowlings would look?
I'm also not quite sure how they merge into the wing?
Ringed on pic.

Any suggestions please?
Many thanks.
Peter

 

[Justo Miranda]

Some help here (Post-1)

 

[Justo Miranda]

Some help here (Post-2)

 

[Flitzer]

Bravo Justo.

Brilliant. Once again many thanks.
Peter
;D

 

[son altesse]

Splendide camouflage, Peter. You are very inspired with the first one !!!

 

[Flitzer]

Another work in progress report, this time the BV P192.

Not sure about the air intake/exhaust position, using DB603G?

Alternative power plant being Jumo 213E.

Any advice gratefully received.

Many thanks
Peter

 

[Bodmas]

Re, BV 192 illustration: The Intake/Exhaust positions would be about right for the DB 603 engines; but i have several reservations.
Fistly - and this may be "artistic license" on your part - you illustrate the aircraft in the livery of a "Nachtjager"; in which case, one would expect flame eliminators to be covering the exhausts. Also, the squadron emblem is of KG 51 (KampfGeschweder 51) "Edelweiss" - a bomber group. One would expect a Nachjager to be assigned to an "NJG" (NachtJagdGeschweder) or night-fighter group (eg. Njg 1); not a bomber group.
Secondly - and purely aesthetically - the illustration just doesn't "look like" a BV design; it's not "Kooky" enough. It looks more like a hybrid Junkers (88G - like nose section) and Arado (234 - like tail section) design... but still on the right track for a "Nachtjager".
Finally - and more technically - i'm not sure i understand the engineering: your illustration seems to show an aircraft with a single propellor wrapped around the fuselage; cool for minimizing drag (as in the theory behind the He 177). However WWII period engines - even the German ones - were not so "high revving"; so, to transfer revs to the prop (as i understand the illustration) would be the Devil's own task, engineering-wise.
Given the penchant - very finally - of the RLM to specify that any bomber should be able to dive-bomb at at least 30 to 60 degrees... don't you reckon that it would be a tad impractical to centrally mount an SC 250-500 bomb just behind the propellor?

 

[Flitzer]

Hi Bodmas,
thanks for the input.
With regards to the scheme, this one was just me playing with patterns and colours. It's pure accident it looks like a Nactjager. I'll reserve this scheme for a proper night fighter project.

The emblem again was just stuck on for position/effect at this stage. I'll source a dive bomber/ground attack unit one, maybe from a Stuka squadron. But if you have a more apt JG emblem tucked away somewhere I would be truly grateful.

The mid fuselage prop position is as the basic 3-view drawings as is everything else. Your comments are probably spot on but I just add flesh and colour to the 'bare bones' of these project sketches. I try to do them as found, warts, faults and all.
I'll post the 3-views I've done.
It was a Bv design but didn't get any further than the drawing board. The bomb position is as suggested by the original 3-view drawings. But I believe you may be right. Maybe two smaller underwing mounted bombs would be better.

Many thanks
Peter
;D

 

[son altesse]

Brilliant Peter, as usual

 

[Justo Miranda]

Additional info

 

[Justo Miranda]

Here Edelweiss emblem from Aufklärungsgruppe 14

 

[Flitzer]

Wow...Justo you are so quick and never cease to amaze.
Many thanks.
So the Edelweiss emblem is okay for a Bv192?

For what it's worth here is my (colour corrected ) work in progress 3 view.

Many thanks again.
Peter

 

[Justo Miranda]

So the Edelweiss emblem is okay for a Bv192?

No , Aufklärer means reconnaisance unit and Bv 192 is a dive bomber

 

[Justo Miranda]

Here some samples of desert stukas

 

[Flitzer]

Many thanks again Justo.
Plenty ideas there.

I've found a few also, looking through decal references from Ju87 and Hs129 sheets.
Interestingly I found night versions of the Ju 87 in dark greens scheme and a more normal greys one, so the first of my Bv 192 pics may be okay with flame eliminators and a change of emblem (?).

Best wishes
Peter

 

[Justo Miranda]

Nocturnal stukas here...

 

[Flitzer]

Again many thanks Justo.

Have applied some of these schemes already.


Peter
;D

 

[Flitzer]

A little confusion concerning the Fast Bomber Me P1101-104 or 105?

According to
Luftwafe Secret Projects Starategic Bombers 1935 - 1945
by Dieter Hering and Heinz Rode
it's '105'.
But in
Jet Planes of the 3rd Riech The Secret Projects
by Manered Griehl
the same aircraft is noted as being '104'.

Can anybody confirm which it is please?

Many thanks
Peter

 

[Justo Miranda]

In my opinion 104

 

[Flitzer]

Justo,
your opinion is always good enough for me.
104 it is.

Thank you.
Peter

 

[Skyraider3D]

If I remember correctly, one of Luftfahrt International issues deals with secret Messerschmitt projects and has 3-view drawings of the Me P.1101 and several others. I'm currently not in a position to scan it tho.

 

[Flitzer]

Thanks Ronnie.
I think I'm okay now, I have the 3-views etc and now I know which is which thanks to Justo.
Best regards
Peter

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Anyone ever see this picture of the Messerschmitt P.1101 before? It's a new one for me.

Someone posted it here: https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209101309192452&id=1310529236&set=gm.1298585723501983&source=57

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

A little Google fu and I have an actual page to go with the picture.

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2016/03/messerschmitt-p1101-prototype.html?m=1