Me Bf162 'Jaguar'

Flitzer

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Hi again.
Looking for any details/background info on Messerschmitt's Ju88 competitor, the Me Bf162 please.
Especially the V3.


I understand it was a development of the Bf110 (Zerstorer version) and featured an all-new fuselage.
So am I correct in assuming the wings and engine combination were simply carried over to create the 162?


Many thanks
P :)
 

Jemiba

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From H.J. Ebert/J.B. Kaiser/k. Peters "Willy Messerschmitt, Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues":
Interesting feature is the mentioned fixed armament of machine guns firing through the propeller
hub, as in the Bf 109. Cannot remember of such an arrangement in other bomber aircraft.
 

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Flitzer

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Many thanks...
I'm on it. :)


Started keylines. Still much to do.
P :)
 

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Flitzer

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A little more on the Bf162.


Still trying to work out the framing for the Hu Ostermark...


In the meantime:


Many thanks
P
 

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Flitzer

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Having thought it over, if the Bf162 had made full production, is it likely the antenna mast would have been moved to the top of the cockpit frame rather than being mounted just behind it as on the V3 prototype?
Therefore would there have been a gun postion to the rear of the cockpit?
In addition to the 'through the spinner bosses' guns as mentioned by Jemiba.


Many thanks
P
 

Justo Miranda

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:)
 

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Flitzer

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Once again thank you Justo.


Still some work to do....
Not sure about the rear gun mounting or gun size issues?
Plus the perspex dome at the extreme nose, is, I take it, a bomb aimer's portal, in as with the DH Mosquito?
Or would it too have a gun position?


Many thanks
P
 

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Flitzer

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Thanks Justo....so that's where they put the pitot...


:) P
 

Jemiba

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Don't get me wrong, but honestly I don't belive in the pitot through the perspex nose.
It would need piping or at least cables to the instrument panel, severing the room for the
bomb aimer. In a service aircraft this position probably would have been occupied by
a gun, as in the Do 17 or Ju 88, I think.
 

Bill Walker

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Just a guess, but a nose mounted pitot would make sense for a prototype, until the PECs are determined. But as the previous post said, not for an operational aircraft.
 

Justo Miranda

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Jemiba said:
Don't get me wrong, but honestly I don't belive in the pitot through the perspex nose.
It would need piping or at least cables to the instrument panel, severing the room for the
bomb aimer. In a service aircraft this position probably would have been occupied by
a gun, as in the Do 17 or Ju 88, I think.

Nein,nein :D
 

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Justo Miranda

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Nein,nein
cheesy.gif
 

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Jemiba

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Doch, doch !
That's the prototype, as Bill wrote. And as I understand, Peter is thinking
a Bf 162 series version.
 

Jemiba

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Found two other examples, which a pitot in the nose of a prototype,
but moved to the standard position in the wingtip in the series version.
 

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Flitzer

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Thanks Jens.


More questions please...if I may tap into greater knowledge once again...


Apparently it would have had a crew of 3.
The bomb-aimer in the nose...I wonder where his seat was? He wouldn't have stayed in the prone position until it was time to drop ordnance?
I'm guessing but back of the nose just below and forward of the pilot?


Also would the bomb load have been carried externally or was there a bomb bay?


P :D
 

Justo Miranda

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OK some useful stuff here... ::)
 

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Artie Bob

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"Having thought it over, if the Bf162 had made full production, is it likely the antenna mast would have been moved to the top of the cockpit frame rather than being mounted just behind it as on the V3 prototype?
Therefore would there have been a gun postion to the rear of the cockpit?
In addition to the 'through the spinner bosses' guns as mentioned by Jemiba."
Like the Ju 88 ,designed to the same Schnellbomber specification, the Bf 162 was undergoing major changes at the request of the RLM, as the design progressed from V1, V2, V3, etc. One of the changes was the 4th crewman, which probably would have been incorporated on the Bf 162 V4. One major reason the JFM was selected for production over the BFW design was the inability of the smaller engineering staff to keep pace with the change requests. To give an idea, IIRC, about 75% of the drawings either had to be redrawn or started new between V1 and V4. But the changes did not stop there. In a letter from Dornier to the RLM, they complained that there had been over 45,000 changes to the Ju 88 between Feb and Dec 1939. Incorporating the changes as they were building their first Ju 88s apparently doubled the man-hours required. So, if there had ever been a production Bf 162, the appearance would probably have changed significantly and probably would have had Jumo engines (Ring-Kuhlers?).
Best Regards,
Artie Bob
 

Flitzer

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Brilliant references as always Justo.


Jens and Artie Bob, I was thinking along the exact same lines and I've already carried out the move and added a rear gunner position.
And yes I'm doing it as though in service, so the pitot may be placed at wing tip.


I've started colouring up in an early war scheme and it changes the looks completely.


Many thanks one and all.


;D P
 

Artie Bob

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The 4th crewman would be the gunner firing below the fuselage and aft, this would either have resulted in a Bola, like the Ju 88 or deepening the fuselage with a "step" like the Do 17 Z. The Jumo engines were heavier (about 120kg each), but about the same length. They could also use the same style radiators as the DB, the round nose radiator was not a necessity.
Best Regards,
Artie Bob
 

Flitzer

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Hi
the latest update.
There are still a few areas that need sorting out...


I totally agree with you Artie Bob.
But what I'm trying to do is show how it may have looked if in service, with as few major changes as possible, so it still looks like it did as first designed.
I know it's courting 'What-if' territory, but I want to retain it's original looks but obviously in service.


Many thanks
P
 

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Nick Sumner

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A great looking aircraft beautifully rendered. Well done!
 

Flitzer

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Still a fair way to go yet Nick.
But it's taking shape.


Many thanks
P :)
 

Flitzer

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I think I can call it finished.
Need to add landing light to side and top view wing though.


Of course if any one knows different or spots any glaring mistakes.... :)


Many thanks and now for that Hutter.
P
 

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redstar72

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GTX said:
Very much like a German Pe-2.


Yes, I intended to say the same thing! :) There would be many problems with the recognition, if it would be mass produced.
(Pe-2 was often confused even with Bf 110...)
 

Flitzer

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Many thanks Stargazer..
I'd love to say 'all my own work' ;) , but I have to say many members made massive contributions.
And it's always a joy to work when they do.

And yes it does smack of the Pe-2.
P :D
 

Jemiba

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Always great to see such a design (and it actually is a built one !) coming to live,
many thanks Peter !
As a contender to the Ju 88, it probably would have to be capable of dive bombing,
wouldn't it ? So dive breaks would fit nicely, I think. ;)
And maybe yellow wing tips, for easier aircaft recognition ?
 

Flitzer

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Thanks Jens...
Therefore if it would have dive-bombing capabilities, would the bombs be mounted in a similar way as for the Bf110?
I can always add a bomb rack and do yellow wing tips.


Hmm...dive brakes. Are they not usually on the underside of the wings? I'll check a few Ju88s.


The Hutter is feeling neglected, but these few modifications won't take long :) .


P
 

Pepe Rezende

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Flitzer said:
Also would the bomb load have been carried externally or was there a bomb bay?


P :D


It had a small bomb bay, two external positions for 500 kg bombs and four external positions for 50 kg bombs at the outer wing panels. Bombs were store vertically at the bomb bay.


Pepe
 

Stargazer2006

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Go back to that poor Hütter, Pete! It awaits you in sheer desperation! (of course the Bf 162's got everything, but above all its got talent).
 

Flitzer

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Thanks to you and Jens.


Another one for the album.
P :)
 

Skyraider3D

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Great work! Looks very believable!
Just a small nitpick, the exhaust stain would have been shaped differently due to the way air curves up in front of a wing:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/fluids/flupic/airflow.jpg
I'd curve it up and have it stain the wingroot, much alike happens on the Ju 88.
 

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