Me 209, Variants & Projects

[Dan Sharp]

any original drawing or document regarding the me 209 H?

Documents yes, drawings no (drawing III/548 was sadly not appended).

 

[sgeorges4]

thanks!

 

[sgeorges4]

any chance to have a better variant of that document(I can't really read it). Do we know other variant of the me 209 H?

 

[Jemiba]

" Me 209 H mit JUMO 213 E
(Einheitstriebwerk)

Kurzbeschreibung
(Zeichnung III/548)

1. Flugwerk

1.) Flügel
Flügelumriß quasi trapezförmig
Spannweite 13,26 m
Fläche 21,9 m²
Seitenverhältnis: 1:8,05
Festigkeit n = 6

rechteckiges Flügelmittelstück, mit Flügelträger ungeteilt
ausgeführt, an normale Me 209-Flügel-Rumpf-Anschluß-Be-
schläge passend, mit Wölbungsklappe /Außenflügel 2 h-Klappe
sowie Raum für Zusatzbehälter (vor dem Holm) und Bewaffnung
in der Flügelwurzel (MG 151) .
Außenflügel wie Me 209/DB 603 G (Rollwendigkeit wie bei
Me 109 H, Rollzeit bei v Reise 5 - 6 sec, gegenüber Me 109 G
mit 4,5 sec

2.)Rumpf
wie Me 29/DB 603 G
Rumpfaufdickung geändert, bedingt durch großen Triebwerks-
durchmesser (1150 mm)

3.) Leitwerk
wie Me 29/DB 603 G
wahrscheinlich Vertiefung des Höhenruders nach hinten nötig
(3-Punkt-Landung)

4.) Steuerung
Im Rumpf und Außenflügel wie Me 29/DB 603 G, im rechteckigen
Flügel-Mittelstück zusätzliche Zwischenstücke "

 

[sgeorges4]

thank you!

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

Because the Me 409 existed as a project, the title of this thread should be simply "Me 409" (see also listing at http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/germany.html).

 

[Dan Sharp]

Because the Me 409 existed as a project, the title of this thread should be simply "Me 409" (see also listing at http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/germany.html).

As I have demonstrated elsewhere in this forum, Me 409 was the original designation of the Me 155 from about March to June 1942. It has very little to do with the Me 209.

 

[sgeorges4]

Why is the SP+EB prototype a "me 209 H" prototype,when J-C Mermet put them as Bf 109 H prototype (particulary the so call me 209 HV55) http://fighters.forumactif.com/t3739-messerschmitt-bf-109-h-v1 (his me 109 H V1 interpretation in model,it's in french)

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1959.

 

[Wasp]

Since this thread concerns all Me 209 variants, I wonder if anyone has any more information on the Me 209 V3, especially in its later form as a testbed.

Myhra states that the V3, which was originally planned as the record-breaker, but was finished last, even after the V4, was immediatly obsolete and used as a testbed instead.
Myhra says, it received a bigger wing and a ventral radiator replacing the surface cooling system. Which sounds like what the V4 received.
However the question is, was the bigger wing a totally different one or like the early 30ft V4 or even the later 32ft. V4 wing?

I know of only this picture of the V3, which doesn't show much (except, that it seems to have received the same blue/white racer paintjob as its 2 predecessors).
I also included a picture of the early V4 wings with the shorter rounded wingtips.

 

[hesham]

From, Aerei Nella Storia 71.

 

[Arjen]

That shows the Me 309.

 

[fightingirish]

The newest November issue of the German magazine "Flugzeug Classic 11/21" shows so far unpublished pictures of the Messerschmitt Me 209. Of course, these pictures show again, that this aircraft in camouflage was only used for propaganda.

Bilderschätze - Messerschmitt Me 209: Nachfolger der Bf 109?
Die Me 209 galt als das Nachfolgemuster für die Bf 109 - doch war sie das im Endeffekt nur in der Propaganda. Bisher noch nie veröffentlichte Aufnahmen verdeutlichen die Täuschung.

 

[topspeed3]

What was the span of Me 209 H V1 ? ?

Was it 13,26 m ?

 

[Dan Sharp]

What was the span of Me 209 H V1 ? ?

Was it 13,26 m ?

View attachment 704088View attachment 704089
View attachment 704090

There never was an Me 209 H V1. The only data known to exist for the Me 209 H (see post #81, which I believe you already have - there remains no known surviving drawing of it) says that yes, the intended wingspan for the design was indeed 13.26m.

 

[topspeed3]

There never was an Me 209 H V1. The only data known to exist for the Me 209 H (see post #81, which I believe you already have - there remains no known surviving drawing of it) says that yes, the intended wingspan for the design was indeed 13.26m.

Are the pictures I enclosed sorta like on the right ball park ?

 

[topspeed3]

" Me 209 H mit JUMO 213 E
(Einheitstriebwerk)

Kurzbeschreibung
(Zeichnung III/548)

1. Flugwerk

1.) Flügel
Flügelumriß quasi trapezförmig
Spannweite 13,26 m
Fläche 21,9 m²
Seitenverhältnis: 1:8,05
Festigkeit n = 6

rechteckiges Flügelmittelstück, mit Flügelträger ungeteilt
ausgeführt, an normale Me 209-Flügel-Rumpf-Anschluß-Be-
schläge passend, mit Wölbungsklappe /Außenflügel 2 h-Klappe
sowie Raum für Zusatzbehälter (vor dem Holm) und Bewaffnung
in der Flügelwurzel (MG 151) .
Außenflügel wie Me 209/DB 603 G (Rollwendigkeit wie bei
Me 109 H, Rollzeit bei v Reise 5 - 6 sec, gegenüber Me 109 G
mit 4,5 sec

2.)Rumpf
wie Me 29/DB 603 G
Rumpfaufdickung geändert, bedingt durch großen Triebwerks-
durchmesser (1150 mm)

3.) Leitwerk
wie Me 29/DB 603 G
wahrscheinlich Vertiefung des Höhenruders nach hinten nötig
(3-Punkt-Landung)

4.) Steuerung
Im Rumpf und Außenflügel wie Me 29/DB 603 G, im rechteckigen
Flügel-Mittelstück zusätzliche Zwischenstücke "

Was it also longer ?

 

[HoHun]

Hi Hood,

Does this mean that the often retold tale that the Me 155 was originally a carrier-based fighter before becoming a high-altitude fighter is also a misrepresentation?

Though Dan has already answered your post years ago, I thought I'd belatedly add a quick translation of the document on the Me 409 that triggered your question:

"Das Muster Me 409 wird mit DB 605 für Trägereinsatz, mit Jumo 213 für normalen Jagdeinsatz und mit DB 628 als Höhenjäger vorgsehen. Die Startgewichte sind nach Angabe von Mtt.AG G= 3,5 to als Trägerflugzeug, G= 4,1 to als normaler Jäger und G= 3,75 to als Höhenjäger. Die weiteren Abmessungen sind F= 19,5 m^2, und b = 11 m bei normalem Jäger und beim Trägerflugzeug; beim Höhenjäger ist F = 21 m^2 und b = 12,85 m."

Translation:

"The type Me 109 is planned with DB 605 for carrier operations, with Jumo 213 for normal fighter operations and with DB 628 as a high-altitude fighter. The take-off weights are stated by Messerschmitt AG as W = 3,5 t as carrier aircraft, W = 4.1 t as normal fighter and W = 3.75 t as high-altitude fighter. Further dimensions are wing area A = 19.5 m^2 and wing span b = 11 m for the normal fighter and the carrier aircraft; for the high-altititude fighter, it's F = 21 m^2 and b = 12.85 m."

and

"5. Für den Katapultstart wird eine Beschleunigung von 4,5 g angenommen.

6. Die am Landehaken angreifenden Kräfte werden entspr. einer Verzögerung von 4 g angesetzt."

Translation:

"5th) For catapult launch, an acceleration of 4.5 G is assumed.

6th) The forces acting on the landing hook are assumed to be equivalent to a deceleration of 4 g."

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[hesham]

Do I read right in the last of the six images shown in your first post : "Me 327 , früher 263" ?

Me.327 ?!.

 

[Arjen]

@hesham I am slightly lost in a conversation that dates back five years, but I think newsdeskdan provides an answer here:

Looks like the P 01-114, which became the original Me 263, was then redesignated Me 327.

... which is simply the entry in this thread immediately following the one you are replying to.

 

[Mark24]

I made the drawing using original plans sent by Hitchcock.
It should be quite accurate.

Hi Justo, do you have a drawing of the Me-155B that you prepared for Hitchcock's booklet on the Bv-155, that shows the overall dimensions, from wing tip to wing tip (total span), and from the tip of the nose cone to the end of the tail. Or just those recorded dimensions. What's recorded in the back of the booklet is 21,000 mm wing span, that's for the planned larger-high altitude version they handed off to B&V. What I find on the internet is, Span: 36 ft. 10 5/8 in. (11,000 mm) , Length: 9,550 mm (see image attachment)

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi Justo, do you have a drawing of the Me-155B that you prepared for Hitchcock's booklet on the Bv-155, that shows the overall dimensions, from wing tip to wing tip (total span), and from the tip of the nose cone to the end of the tail. Or just those recorded dimensions. What's recorded in the back of the booklet is 21,000 mm wing span, that's for the planned larger-high altitude version they handed off to B&V. What I find on the internet is, Span: 36 ft. 10 5/8 in. (11,000 mm) , Length: 9,550 mm (see image attachment)View attachment 709623

Wingspan: 11.00 m. Lenght: 9.68 m. Height: 4.32 m. Propeller diameter: 3.38 m.

 

[hesham]

Do I read right in the last of the six images shown in your first post : "Me 327 , früher 263" ?

Where is this ?.

 

[hesham]

Where is this ?.

It was also mentioned in this index ?!.

 

[sienar]

Since this thread concerns all Me 209 variants, I wonder if anyone has any more information on the Me 209 V3, especially in its later form as a testbed.

Myhra states that the V3, which was originally planned as the record-breaker, but was finished last, even after the V4, was immediatly obsolete and used as a testbed instead.
Myhra says, it received a bigger wing and a ventral radiator replacing the surface cooling system. Which sounds like what the V4 received.
However the question is, was the bigger wing a totally different one or like the early 30ft V4 or even the later 32ft. V4 wing?

I know of only this picture of the V3, which doesn't show much (except, that it seems to have received the same blue/white racer paintjob as its 2 predecessors).
I also included a picture of the early V4 wings with the shorter rounded wingtips.

The Flugzeug article mentioned in post #93 has photos of all three aircraft lined up in propaganda garb.

I believe this is the V3

And here on the right;

No radiator visible in either and pretty much impossible to tell what the span is.