M41 Walker Bulldog with M47 Patton Turret?

[Christopher Wang]

According to the American Fighting Vehicle Database (http://afvdb.50megs.com/), both the M41 Walker Bulldog and the M47 Patton shared the same turret ring diameter of 73.0 inches / 185.42 centimeters.



That got me thinking: Has there ever been any real-life proposals to retrofit the turret of the M47 Patton onto the M41 Walker Bulldog?

The M41 Walker Bulldog’s hull does seem capable of carrying turrets with larger guns such as the T49 light tank with the 90-mm T132E3 semi-smoothbore gun (TOP) and Cadillac Gage’s proposal to mount the Stingray light tank turret with the 105-mm L7 Low Recoil Force rifled gun (BOTTOM).

T49 Light Tank with 90-mm T132E3 Semi-Smoothbore Gun


M41 Walker Bulldog with 105-mm L7 Low Recoil Force Rifled Gun

For the M47 Patton, its turret is also capable of being upgraded to house a 105-mm L/52 rifled tank gun. Italy’s OTO Melara had proposed and successfully tested fitting a Royal Ordnance L7 gun onto the M47 Patton’s turret (TOP). Spain had also done a similar conversion with its M47E2 armed with the Rheinmetall Rh-105-30 gun, which was essentially a German copy of the British L7 (BOTTOM).

OTO Melara M47 Patton with 105-mm L/52 Royal Ordnance L7 Rifled Gun


M47E2 with 105-mm L/52 Rheinmetall RH-105-30 Rifled Gun

Given the same turret ring diameter (73.0 inches / 185.42 centimeters) of the M41 Walker Bulldog and M47 Patton: What is the technical feasibility of combining the hull of the M41 Walker Bulldog with the M47 Patton turret carrying the 90-mm M36 and possibly the 105-mm L7 / Rh-105-30?

 

[monochromelody]

Well, basically M47 is an a M46 based medium tank carrying a T42 turret.
90mm new turret + T37 chassis = T42 (1950)
T42 turret + M46 chassis = M47 (1951)
Just an ad-hoc solution for Korean War tank panic.

 

[Christopher Wang]

I'm bumping this thread by repeating my question: Has there ever been any real-life proposals to retrofit the turret of the M47 Patton onto the M41 Walker Bulldog?

As shown in the American Fighting Vehicle Database (http://afvdb.50megs.com/), both the M41 Walker Bulldog and the M47 Patton shared the same turret ring diameter of 73.0 inches / 185.42 centimeters. Is it technically feasible to combine the hull of the M41 Walker Bulldog with the M47 Patton turret carrying the 90-mm M36 and possibly the 105-mm L7 / Rh-105-30?

 

[GTX]

Please don’t bump threads like this. If people haven’t answered (noting it has only been about 2wks), it may be that no one knows or is interested beyond yourself.

 

[Commander Matta]

It would be possible however the nations that were supplied with Both, only the Taiwanese would be likely to do so.
here is their wiki.

• Type 65: A M41 designed by the Republic of China Army, similar to the M-41D but with significantly thicker armor and a co-axial M60 machine gun.[7] It is unclear whether the Type 65 is an M41 derivative built under license in the Republic of China, or simply a rebuilt M41A2/M41A3.[7] Unlike the M41 series the Type 65's turret is entirely cast steel, and its interior dimensions are smaller.[7]

The Taiwanese type 64 is a M41 or M42 Duster fitted with a different turret.

Type 64 Hybrid[edit]​

The original Type 64 hybrid tank project involved the construction of tanks made from parts of dismantled American tanks provided by the United States. The Type 64 is essentially a M42 Duster hull with an M18 Hellcat turret on top with a 76mm gun. The M18s were originally decommissioned tanks supplied to the ROC Armed Forces during the Chinese Civil War and later, whilst the hulls were surplus M42 hulls ordered and shipped to the island of Taiwan.

Compartments over the track guards for spare Bofors gun barrels were replaced with storage boxes of the stock M41 tank. A total of one battalion worth of conversions were made.

Type 64 Prototype[edit]​

The Type 64 Prototype or Type 64 Experimental was a locally upgraded version of the M41 Walker Bulldog with improved fire controls, 530 horsepower Napco 8V-71T diesel engine, ANVRC-7 radio, mounted T57 7.62mm GPMG, and applique turret armor and sideskirts made from traditional cast and high-hardness tungsten alloy steel. Development began in the year Minguo 64 (1975), hence the name.

The tank is comparable in design to the M41 series of American tanks, which already proved itself reasonably capable of holding its own against the threat of Type 59 and T-55A tanks during the Vietnam War, but has an improved electrical system. The hull had an all-welded steel construction that incorporates a high-strength alloy steel and was manufactured using advanced welding techniques, providing adequate protection from small arms and cannon fire. The all-cast turret housed three crew members and has the same layout as the M41, with modifications to suit the shorter stature of local tank crews. On the hull, an additional layer of laminated, high-strength alloy steel armour plate was welded and bolted on; this provided additional protection against HEAT and APDS projectiles.

The 76mm rifled gun used on the Type 64 was manufactured locally in Taiwan. A 7.62mm co-axial machinegun was mounted with the main gun, whilst a .50 M2 HB machinegun intended for firing upon aircraft is mounted at the commander's station. The tank had an improved fire control system, and ammunition was stored in a similar manner to the M41A2 and M41A3.

A total of 14 pre-production tanks and 25 first-series tanks were ordered to be constructed at the 201 Factory, with the last tank completed in 1979. This variant did not enter further mass-production although those already built were later modified to include laser rangefinders, ballistic computers and passive night vision equipment developed by the National Sun Yat-Sen Research Institute.

 

[Commander Matta]

Well, basically M47 is an a M46 based medium tank carrying a T42 turret.
90mm new turret + T37 chassis = T42 (1950)
T42 turret + M46 chassis = M47 (1951)
Just an ad-hoc solution for Korean War tank panic.
View attachment 681285
View attachment 681286

With respect to this, the Iranians have taken m47's and fitted them with 105mm Rifled and 105mm Smoothbore guns of their own design, as well as with a New turret, and also with T-55/type 59/69 Turrets called the Tiam.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The concern with this would be turret weight. How much more does an M47 turret weigh over the M41 turret?

 

[Christopher Wang]

The concern with this would be turret weight. How much more does an M47 turret weigh over the M41 turret?

If balance and weight issues are too much to mount the M47 Patton's turret onto the M41 Walker Bulldog's hull, then perhaps the only practical firepower upgrade options would be to mount the Stingray light tank turret with the 105-mm L7 Low Recoil Force gun as was done in Thailand (top) or to retrofit the existing Walker Bulldog turret with the 60-mm High Velocity Medium Support gun as was experimented in Chile (bottom).

 

[Christopher Wang]

The concern with this would be turret weight. How much more does an M47 turret weigh over the M41 turret?

Another possibility is to mount the turret of the T49 (below) and swap out the 90-mm T132E3 for the 105-mm L7 / M68. This could require fitting a larger counterweight at the turret rear. The final turret design could resemble the M47's but with the M41's thinner armor (0.5" to 1.25") and thus lighter weight.