M270 MLRS and M142 HIMARS Developments

I can believe that one of their SAM systems types was upgraded to improve performance against HIMARS. I just doubt it is as easy as that quote makes it sound. A Russian poster on tanknet quoted an article that indicated the problem with engagements were the short window of opportunity (specifically given as 10 seconds) and the small diameter of the rocket head on. I believe that article was discussing the Tor system, which explains that short engagement window. I would think a Buk system's search/acquisition radar would allow for a lot more warning.
 
Short Engagement window is exactly the type of problem that can be helped with software. Imagine a human crew fumbling with firing procedures while the target is moving out of the intercept window, even simple automation can help significantly.
 
Josh_TN said:
Tu-141 most likely, though how the hell it made it that far without being shot down I can’t guess. A-50s and MiG-31s must have been on a Union break. More seriously, Russian air ops had tapered off due to weather; maybe they didn’t even bother with a CAP?
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The Tu-141 seems to be the suggestion. And whilst one crashed in the countryside in Croatia, that's not the same as one flying straight up and into to a strategic bomber base during a live war. It's roughly the size of a Tornado GR1.
 
Forest Green said:
Josh_TN said:
Tu-141 most likely, though how the hell it made it that far without being shot down I can’t guess. A-50s and MiG-31s must have been on a Union break. More seriously, Russian air ops had tapered off due to weather; maybe they didn’t even bother with a CAP?
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The Tu-141 seems to be the suggestion. And whilst one crashed in the countryside in Croatia, that's not the same as one flying straight up and into to a strategic bomber base during a live war. It's roughly the size of a Tornado GR1.
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If it was a Tu-141, it had a major guidance and autopilot upgrade - definitely something with a radar altimeter. I still don't know how it would have avoided ground radars close to the front - maybe there was a supporting operation using HIMARS or HARM to occupy the short/medium ranged systems. There after if you mapped out the static positions of long ranged missiles and somehow there were no A50s in the air...all I can think of is that whatever it was took a lot of planning and a lot of luck, and probably involved a narrow window of opportunity. Definitely not HIMARS related though, unless they partook as a distraction.
 
The United States is preparing to send Ukraine a $275 million military aid package offering new capabilities to defeat drones and strengthen air defenses, according to a document seen by Reuters on Thursday and people familiar with the package.

The package could be announced as early as Friday. Details of the anti-drone and air defense equipment included could not be determined.

The Pentagon is also expected to include rockets for High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) launchers made by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N), 155mm ammunition, Humvee military vehicles and generators, according to the people and the document.
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www.reuters.com

U.S. to send Ukraine anti-drone, air defense aid worth $275 million

The United States is preparing to send Ukraine a $275 million military aid package offering new capabilities to defeat drones and strengthen air defenses, according to a document seen by Reuters on Thursday and people familiar with the package.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
Interesting read.

www.thinkdefence.co.uk

Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) - Think Defence

GMLRS is a precision-guided rocket system currently in service with the Royal Artillery.
www.thinkdefence.co.uk www.thinkdefence.co.uk

Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) History​

The evolution of MLRS, from the grid square removal service to GMLRS, the 70km Sniper, is a perfect illustration of the trends in complex weapons over the last twenty-odd years.

MLRS and GMLRS have their origins in a joint German (MBB), Italian (Oto Melara) and British (Hunting Engineering) project that proposed a tracked launcher that could fire six unguided 280mm rockets with a range of 40-60km, called RS-80.

RS-80-Rocket-System-892x668.jpg

Each RS-80 rocket could carry either a single warhead or more commonly, a submunition dispenser.
 
Some texts also mention 468 launcher module pods being part of the contract. With 18 himars launchers, i can't fathom why would anyone need almost 30 times as many missile pods.
 
totoro said:
Some texts also mention 468 launcher module pods being part of the contract. With 18 himars launchers, i can't fathom why would anyone need almost 30 times as many missile pods.
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ATACMS is one per pod, and several thousand rockets seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to have for a war. I think it more than likely Ukraine has already consumed that number with a similar amount of launchers. Plus 18 I think is only the initial launcher buy.
 
Josh_TN said:
totoro said:
Some texts also mention 468 launcher module pods being part of the contract. With 18 himars launchers, i can't fathom why would anyone need almost 30 times as many missile pods.
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ATACMS is one per pod, and several thousand rockets seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to have for a war. I think it more than likely Ukraine has already consumed that number with a similar amount of launchers. Plus 18 I think is only the initial launcher buy.
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Are they getting ATACMS? (I'm also wondering if some of that order isn't old stock, "grid killer/steel rain" unguided rounds with bomblets.)
 
sferrin said:
Josh_TN said:
totoro said:
Some texts also mention 468 launcher module pods being part of the contract. With 18 himars launchers, i can't fathom why would anyone need almost 30 times as many missile pods.
Click to expand...

ATACMS is one per pod, and several thousand rockets seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to have for a war. I think it more than likely Ukraine has already consumed that number with a similar amount of launchers. Plus 18 I think is only the initial launcher buy.
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Are they getting ATACMS? (I'm also wondering if some of that order isn't old stock, "grid killer/steel rain" unguided rounds with bomblets.)
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Yes, they’re approved. They also have JASSM for their F-16s.
 
sferrin said:
Are they getting ATACMS? (I'm also wondering if some of that order isn't old stock, "grid killer/steel rain" unguided rounds with bomblets.)
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To the cluster bomb question: I don't know specifically, but interesting point in that Poland never signed the cluster bomb treaty. That said, from a practical standpoint the M26 rockets must be hitting their sell by date and long ranged GMLRS against point logistical and command targets is probably a lot more effective than short range cluster rockets on troops in the field. Poland also has absolutely no shortage of Grads to fulfill the short range unguided rocket role, and their models typically store a full reload right on the launch vehicle IIRC. But perhaps the Poles asked for some old M26s to puff up their initial inventory since the US would probably hand them over for free rather than have to dispose of them? If so, the US would probably be very quiet about it since cluster munitions are frowned upon in some circles.
 
Josh_TN said:
totoro said:
Some texts also mention 468 launcher module pods being part of the contract. With 18 himars launchers, i can't fathom why would anyone need almost 30 times as many missile pods.
Click to expand...

ATACMS is one per pod, and several thousand rockets seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to have for a war. I think it more than likely Ukraine has already consumed that number with a similar amount of launchers. Plus 18 I think is only the initial launcher buy.
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Plus, I'm fairly certain these pods can fit the South Korean Chunmoo launchers Poland also plans to buy.

sferrin said:
Are they getting ATACMS? (I'm also wondering if some of that order isn't old stock, "grid killer/steel rain" unguided rounds with bomblets.)
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The article spells out the FMS case clearly -- 45 ATACMS and a large number of MLRS pods in several versions. All the proposed MLRS rounds are GMLRS with either Unitary or AW (enhanced fragmentation) payloads. No bomblets.

The article also points out that the FMS case is an upper bound, not necessarily the actual purchase.
 
sferrin said:
aonestudio said:
Orionblamblam said:
An entirely practical means of extending HIMARS range:
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Elbit Systems have answers for this.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6khnH5CW6s
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That's about 50% larger than GMLRS.
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Turkey has an air-launched version of its TRG-230 rocket, which looks to be a very close analog to GMLRS.

militaryleak.com

Bayraktar Akinci Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle Fires TRG-230-IHA Supersonic Missile - MilitaryLeak.COM

On 16 December 2022, Bayraktar Akinci high-altitude long-endurance unmanned combat aerial vehicle (HALE UCAV) made its first test launch of the missile. The
militaryleak.com militaryleak.com

And IAI offered SkySniper, which was similar as well. (They never really put out specs, so it might be closer to Rampage, but it looked slimmer)

defense-update.com

IAI’s SkySniper – Air Launched Missile for Standoff, Precision Strike - Defense Update:

IAI is reviving the concept of using ground based ballistic missiles as air-launched weapons enabling precision strike from standoff range. Dubbed 'SkySniper', the weapon is configured as an autonomous, air to ground precision strike missile.
defense-update.com defense-update.com
 
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This raises the question whether this "@am_misfit" twitted this information out of ignorant stupidity or out of malevolence to help Putin's aggression.
 
It’s been well established that Himars decoys are in theater since the fall I think. Knowing that some of your highest priority targets are decoys doesn’t really change the math much.

Plus the M777 prime movers are the same truck; we’re I the ZSU every Himars would get a fake canvas overlay to mask the launcher whenever not firing.
 
www.stripes.com

With Marcos watching, US Army HIMARS fires 6 times but misses target in South China Sea

The Philippines’ president was on hand as one of the U.S. Army’s best-known weapons missed its target during a live-fire exercise.
www.stripes.com www.stripes.com
President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. observed from a tower as the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, fired six times at the Philippine navy corvette, invisible over the horizon, and a narrator over a public address system described the action down range. U.S. Ambassador to the Philippines MaryKay Carlson sat beside Marcos.

The two HIMARS launchers — designed to strike targets on land — missed each time, but a barrage of ordnance from U.S. and Philippine artillery and aircraft eventually sank the vessel.

“Shore-based fire against a ship is exceptionally hard,” Lt. Col. Nick Mannweiler, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Pacific, said during the drill at Naval Station Leovigildo Gantioqui.
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Why would they even think the rockets would hit the ship? They aren't terminally guided.
 
aonestudio said:
www.stripes.com

With Marcos watching, US Army HIMARS fires 6 times but misses target in South China Sea

The Philippines’ president was on hand as one of the U.S. Army’s best-known weapons missed its target during a live-fire exercise.
www.stripes.com www.stripes.com
President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. observed from a tower as the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, fired six times at the Philippine navy corvette, invisible over the horizon, and a narrator over a public address system described the action down range. U.S. Ambassador to the Philippines MaryKay Carlson sat beside Marcos.

The two HIMARS launchers — designed to strike targets on land — missed each time, but a barrage of ordnance from U.S. and Philippine artillery and aircraft eventually sank the vessel.

“Shore-based fire against a ship is exceptionally hard,” Lt. Col. Nick Mannweiler, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Pacific, said during the drill at Naval Station Leovigildo Gantioqui.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1651818927096307713
View: https://twitter.com/Aaron_MatthewIL/status/1651818927096307713


https://twitter.com/x/status/1651818930460061696
View: https://twitter.com/Aaron_MatthewIL/status/1651818930460061696


https://twitter.com/x/status/1651818932456546310
View: https://twitter.com/Aaron_MatthewIL/status/1651818932456546310
 
But in recent months, the systems have been rendered increasingly less effective by the Russians’ intensive blocking, five US, British and Ukrainian sources tell CNN, forcing US and Ukrainian officials to find ways to tweak the HIMARS’ software to counter the evolving Russian jamming efforts.

A senior Pentagon official downplayed the impact of the interference, telling CNN that on Monday Ukrainian forces fired 18 rockets without issue, about the daily rate of the past few weeks. The official declined to comment on the broader impact of the jamming. HIMARS are manufactured by Lockheed Martin, which deferred questions on jamming to the US government.

A US official familiar with the workarounds said they include updates to the software on both the targeting system software as well the rockets.

The senior Pentagon official described it as: “constant tweaking to get them to stay effective,” adding that updates had been made as recently as this week.
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The Ukrainians definitely need ARMs to neutralise these GPS jammers.
 

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