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LONGSHOT

SteveO

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Always found the LongShot wing kit a very interesting concept. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/LongShot/index.html
LongShot® is a low-cost, GPS/INS self-contained wing adaptor kit that provides range extension and autonomous guidance capability to a wide range of existing air-to-surface munitions. By using the munition's suspension lug wells as the attachment points, the kit easily adapts to general purpose bombs, cluster bombs, laser guided bombs, and sea mines.
It looks a little bulkly compared to Paveway and JDAM kits but it was even proposed to use with light weight torpedos so that ASW aircraft could operate at higher altitudes.
 

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SteveO

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I wonder if it could have been fitted to Harpoon or Sea Eagle AShM to turn them into GPS/INS cruise missiles?
 

sferrin

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SteveO said:
I wonder if it could have been fitted to Harpoon or Sea Eagle AShM to turn them into GPS/INS cruise missiles?

I think they call it SLAM-ER ;)
 

Deino

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... and finally re-used in china as the LS-6 !

http://cnair.top81.cn/missile1.htm

This new precision-guided glide bomb called LS-6 was first revealed in October 2006. The bomb appears to be in the 500kg class and guided by INS/GPS/GLONASS. It feartures a foldable wing module attached to the top of the unguided GP bomb section, and A guidance module with 4 movable fins attached to the end. This design clearly resembles that of American Longshot guidance and range-extension kit, which turns a low-cost dumb bomb into a smart standoff weapon against fixed targets. Its warhead weighs 440kg, length is 3m, diameter 377mm, wingspan 2,740mm, range 60km (dropped from 10,000m at 1 Mach) and CEP£15m. However, since GPS is controlled by the Unite States, this model may be aimed at the export market only. LS-6 has been tested onboard an CFTE J-8F.
- Last Updated 11/9/06

Deino
 

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SteveO

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sferrin said:
SteveO said:
I wonder if it could have been fitted to Harpoon or Sea Eagle AShM to turn them into GPS/INS cruise missiles?

I think they call it SLAM-ER ;)
:) left myself open to that one didn't I.

I actually meant could you take a standard radar guided anti ship Harpoon or Sea Eagle, take off the mid body fins and fix the control surfaces and let the LongShot kit guide the missile body to the target?
 

SteveO

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Found a better pic of the LongShot/torpedo combination also know as the High Altitude ASW Weapons Concept (HAAWC) here http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/longshot-a-swooping-haawc-for-torpedos-03340/

You can actually see the control surfaces on the wings in this pic :)
 

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TinWing

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SteveO said:
It looks a little bulkly compared to Paveway and JDAM kits but it was even proposed to use with light weight torpedos so that ASW aircraft could operate at higher altitudes.

Well, why are to we suppose that only ASW aircraft would be capable of carrying the High Altitude ASW Weapons Concept (HAAWC)?

I don't see any reason why the Super Hornet couldn't carry the HAAWC? All you need is a GPS coordinate. The targeting data could be generated by the sonobuoy, the sonar of a surface vessel or submarine, the MAD of a MPA or even SOSUS?
 

Just call me Ray

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I wonder if it could be used to deliver a torpedo against surface targets, or if that's something even considered a viable tactic anymore.
 

pathology_doc

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Delivery of a Mk46, for example, against a surface target was always a question I wanted to know the answer to - because it suggested a possible extra use for Ikara. Okay, so that teeny tiny warhead ain't going to do much... on the other hand, nobody builds double bottoms and torpedo bulges into ships any more, do they? Even better, once LONGSHOT had dropped the torp, it could be crashed into the superstructure, not because it would do much damage but because the ship's combat system would assess it as an incoming threat and direct resources against it, giving the crew one more thing to worry about when they're already trying to fend off the torpedo attack.

Of course LONGSHOT can probably carry a bigger torpedo than that, but the principle remains the same.
 

PMN1

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We had a discussion on this here

http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/2835
 

Grey Havoc

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HAAWC brochure from 2007:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/mfc/pc/haawc/mfc-haawc-pc.pdf
 

Sea Skimmer

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pathology_doc said:
Delivery of a Mk46, for example, against a surface target was always a question I wanted to know the answer to - because it suggested a possible extra use for Ikara. Okay, so that teeny tiny warhead ain't going to do much... on the other hand, nobody builds double bottoms and torpedo bulges into ships any more, do they? Even better, once LONGSHOT had dropped the torp, it could be crashed into the superstructure, not because it would do much damage but because the ship's combat system would assess it as an incoming threat and direct resources against it, giving the crew one more thing to worry about when they're already trying to fend off the torpedo attack.

Of course LONGSHOT can probably carry a bigger torpedo than that, but the principle remains the same.


Longshot is not going to be able to flight control itself if it drops the torpedo. A Mk46, the later versions did have a anti surface option, would attempt to home on the screws of a target and blow at least one off, which is pretty effective even against a battleship. Lots of ships still have double bottoms, but only CVNs still have a torpedo defense system, in large part because they need a place to put all that jet fuel anyway. A torpedo attack might actually be very useful in a case like terrorists have hyjacked a freighter, and we want to disable the freight but not just blow it apart with bombs or missiles. Against a warship Longshot would be a very easy target for point defenses, as it would need to drop the torpedo rather close to the target.
 

pathology_doc

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would attempt to home on the screws of a target and blow at least one off, which is pretty effective even against a battleship.

[/size]According to DK Brown, isn't this one of the things which helped account for Prince of Wales - that a screw was blown off and the buckled shaft ripped the hull open?One wonders whether a modified higher-speed version of Mk46 might not have made a good fist of being an active anti-torpedo defence. Sure, the speed of current (submarine main-armament) torpedoes is very high and they aren't large targets, but on the other hand said torp is making a straight run in rather than spewing decoys and manoeuvring to get away...
 

TomS

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pathology_doc said:
One wonders whether a modified higher-speed version of Mk46 might not have made a good fist of being an active anti-torpedo defence. Sure, the speed of current (submarine main-armament) torpedoes is very high and they aren't large targets, but on the other hand said torp is making a straight run in rather than spewing decoys and manoeuvring to get away...


They tried this in the 1990s.

http://books.google.com/books?id=8MwyTX-iA2wC&lpg=PA567&ots=J1yKynhVVg&dq=Mk%2046%20anti-torpedo&pg=PA567#v=onepage&q=Mk%2046%20anti-torpedo&f=false

It did not work well, apparently. Mk 32 tubes were fitted on a couple of US carriers for a few years and quietly removed.


 

Sea Skimmer

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As I recall with Prince of Wales, the torpedo hit a shaft bracket allowing it to whip out of position as the screw still churned the water. This was much worse then just loosing a screw.

A new 7in anti torpedo torpedo exists, its also being proposed as an ASW torpedo now called compact rapid attack weapon for Firescout, but precious little has been said about it or the fire control sonar to go with it.
 

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