Lombardi aircraft

Maveric

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Hi all,

in dimensione cielo 11 I have found little info about Lombardi L.B.1 and L.B.2, but I can´t understand the italian language. Anybody know: real aircraft or projects? Please, post drawings and technical data ;D :p

Servus Maveric
 
Hi all,

found Lombardi L.B.2 in JAWA 1938. Need only a short biography of Francis Lombardi and the L.B.1... :) :D ;D
 

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Maveric said:
but I can´t understand the italian language
There's a free in line translater Italian to English at Babel Fish:
http://world.altavista.com/
Thanks for this poorly known twin-boomer view. :)
 
I myself am looking for information on the L.B.2. I found a photo of it at the 1937 Milan aviation exhibition and the article (from Flight magazine) only mentioned it in passing, saying it was a two-seater powered by a 110hp Alfa engine. What did JAWA have to say on it?
 

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Hi,

Lombardi also design and built the L.4,a light twin version of
the L.3 and powered by a pair of C.N.A. D.IV engines.
 
The bit on page 7 in Dimensione Cielo 11 on the L.B.2 reads (literally):

"The aircraft assumes the acronym of L.3 being the third realization of Lombardi after prototypes L.B.1 and L.B.2"

And that is about the extent of the coverage of the L.B.1 and L.B.2 in the book.


Maveric said:
Hi all,

in dimensione cielo 11 I have found little info about Lombardi L.B.1 and L.B.2, but I can´t understand the italian language. Anybody know: real aircraft or projects? Please, post drawings and technical data ;D :p

Servus Maveric
 
Is the same Lombardi that designed the A.R. Assalto Radioguidato (with the pilot escaping in parachute) at
http://www.md80.it/bbforum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=27535
or raw translation in English
http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.md80.it%2Fbbforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D58%26t%3D27535
pictures at
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index.php?product_category_id=&product_division_id=&manufacturer_id=&product_type_id=all_aircraft_kits&code=&scale_id=&keyword_search=Lombarda
 

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Lombarda (Aeronautica Lombarda S.A.) was not associated with Lombardi. Francis Lombardi's designs were under A.V.I.A.

Lombarda bought out Aeronautica Vittorio Bonomi in 1937.


Tophe said:
Is the same Lombardi that designed the A.R. Assalto Radioguidato (with the pilot escaping in parachute) at
http://www.md80.it/bbforum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=27535
or raw translation in English
http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.md80.it%2Fbbforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D58%26t%3D27535
pictures at
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index.php?product_category_id=&product_division_id=&manufacturer_id=&product_type_id=all_aircraft_kits&code=&scale_id=&keyword_search=Lombarda
 
Hi,


I know the Lombardi LB.1 was a light aircraft prototype,but no more details are
known.
 
Another couple of views of the LB.2. As it is powered by an Alfa 115 it is probably appropriate that Francis Lombardi is latterly known as the producer of Alfa Romeo 1900 coupes.
 

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Hi,


here is the AVIA (later Lombardi) LM.02 glider drawing,shows a two different main
landing gear.
 

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hesham said:
Lombardi also design and built the L.4,a light twin version of
the L.3 and powered by a pair of C.N.A. D.IV engines.


Here is the L.4 prototype.
 

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Hi,

does anyone hear about AVIA/Lombardi LM.51 ?.
 
Hi,

here is an Info about AVIA/Lombardi LM.6,it was a three seat version of LM.5,and
maybe the LM.7 three seat was developed from it ?.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201947%2002.pdf
 

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hesham said:
does anyone hear about AVIA/Lombardi LM.51 ?.

The AVIA/Lombardi LM.51 was a low-wing single engined military/commercial transport
Project,and a 3-view to L-4.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201947%2007.pdf
 

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Good find Hesham. Especially nice to see the L.4 3-view. Thanks.
 
Apophenia said:
Good find Hesham. Especially nice to see the L.4 3-view. Thanks.

Thank you my dear Apophenia,

and here is anther mystery,the Lombardi LM.8 prototype ?.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201949%2005.pdf
 

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Hi,

the last post confirm that,the LM-7 was developed from LM-6 Project.
 
It does. A.V.I.A., itself, considered the Mortara-designed 1949 LM.7 to be a direct LM.5 derivative. Wikipedia lists the LM.7 as a "three-seat version with Praga or Walter Minor engine". Actually, of the two LM.7s built, one (I-PACK) was powered by a 60 hp CNA D.4 (as per LM.5), the other (I-TTEN) by a 105 hp Walter Minor 4-III. However, the LM.7 was offered with an optional 75 hp Praga.

The LM.7 was offered as a "tri-quadriposto per turismo e sport although its hard to imagine squeezing that optional fourth person into the back!

LM.7 data and photo of I-PACK: https://web.archive.org/web/20110707112240/http://www.aliromantiche.com/archivio_storico_LM7.html
 
Yes my dear Apophenia,

but we know it as Avia-Lombardi after Avia was absorbed by Francis Lombardi in 1947.
 
Indeed, but on the 16 April 1948 LM 7 static airframe test report (relazione consuntiva prove statiche velivolo "LM/7") the firm is still identified as "A.V.I.A. an. vercellese Ind. Aeronautiche Ufficio Tecnico".
 
Maybe they didn't see an urgent need to change the work documents?
 
Apophenia said:
Indeed, but on the 16 April 1948 LM 7 static airframe test report (relazione consuntiva prove statiche velivolo "LM/7") the firm is still identified as "A.V.I.A. an. vercellese Ind. Aeronautiche Ufficio Tecnico".

But in General Aviation second edition by Airlife,the company formed in 1947 ?.
 
Sure, but corporate entities are formed and dissolve all the time. Often, they'll continue trading under a familiar banner. As starviking said, maybe they just weren't in a rush to change their identity on publications.
 
I hope to make a small list to it.

That would be most useful. The Lombardi corporate lineage is a bit convoluted but here's what I've cobbled together so far ...

'Francis' Lombardi formed A.V.I.A. in Vercelli in 1938. That firm was formed as Anonima Vercellese Industria Aeronautica - meaning its stock was privately traded. When it became publicly-traded, the firm's name was changed to Azionaria Vercellese Industrie Aeronautiche - or the Aeronautical Industries Stockholdings of Vercelli (azoni being stocks under Italian law).

In 1945, A.V.I.A. resumed FL.3 production (which had been interrupted in 1940). They also built a single FL.3C prototype (with new, slotted wings) and a twin-engined L.4 prototype while producing the LM.5 Aviastar in a small series. The LM.7 airframe reached the static testing stage.

As said before, in 1947 the corporate name changed to the more generic Francis Lombardi & Cie - to reflect a broadening of industrial interests beyond aviation. This was realized in the same year with the formation of the Carrozzeria Francis Lombardi (1947-1973) [1]

In March of 1947, another firm was established 500 km to the east near Trieste - Furio Lauri's Meteor S.p.A. Costruzioni Aeronautiche - as an aircraft repair and salvage business. [2] The first products were 'scrap' Taylorcraft Auster AOPs and Fairchild UC-61K Forwarders which were salvaged and restored. Although technically illegal there was nothing particularly covert about Meteor's rebuilds. That said, no designations seem to have been applied to the Austers and 'F-24Rs'.

Meteor S.p.A. went on to produce gliders under licence - initially for the Aeronautica Militare. These were given 'MS' designations ... but that 'S' stood for two different designers. The MS.18 Falco and MS.21 Gabbiano high-performance sailplanes were by the Swiss engineer Jakob Spalinger. The MS.30 L-Passero training glider was by the German engineer Egon Scheibe.

Meteor S.p.A. MS.18 - Single-seat performance sailplane; span 14.30 m
- MS.18: Unbraced, shallow gull wings; based on Spalinger's S 18

Meteor S.p.A. MS.21 - Performance sailplane; span 17.30 or 17.50 m
- MS.21: Braced gull wings; based on Jakob Spalinger's S 21 design*
-- * Exact model licenced would determine seating arrangements

Meteor SpA MS.30 - Single-seat performance sailplane; span 15.00 m
- MS.30 : L-Passero (Sparrow; translating from German); [3] x 16
- MS.30 : Based on Scheibe Flugzeugbau's L-Spatz 55 design*
-- 'L' seems to be retained from German Leistung (Performance)

In 1953, Meteor S.p.A. acquired the aviation assets of Francis Lombardi & Cie - including rights to the FL.3 light cabin aircraft. The object was to allow Meteor to pursue powered aircraft development. Meteor S.p.A. later went on to develop a range of Alpha light aero-engines, drones, and missiles but the aircraft relevant to the Lombardi purchase were:

Meteor S.p.A. FL.53: 1953 FL.3 devel., 2-seat trainer and tourer
- FL.53 : 1 x 65 hp Continental A65 HO4 engine; span 9.85 m; x 8
- FL.53 : Wooden wings; welded steel-tube fuselage construction
- FL.53BM: 1 x 90 hp Continental C90-12F HO4 engine; 4 x built
-- FL.53 differed from FL.3 mainly in its cut-down rear fuselage

Meteor S.p.A. FL.54: 3-seat development of FL.53/FL.53BM; x 10
- FL.54: 1 x Continental HO4 (85 hp C85 or 90 hp C90 offered)*
-- * Some sources say 135 hp; prob. confusion with FL.55 (qv)

Meteor S.p.A. FL.55: Strengthened 4-seat FL.54 derivative; x 4
- FL.55: 1 x 135 hp Lycoming O-290-3 HO4 engine; span 9.85 m
- FL.55B : 'Mountain Rescue Meteor' on skis for Switzerland; x 4
- FL.55BM: Mod. fin/rudder; 1 x 150 hp Lycoming O-320-A1A; x 10
-- FL.55 'Abricolo': FL.55BM with wind-generator crop spraying rig
- FL.55CM: As per FL.55BM but 180 hp Lycoming O-360-A1A; x 1
- Super: FL.55 fitted with a higher-powered Meteor engine; x 1
- Super: 1 x 220 hp Meteor Alpha 4 engine; span 9.85 m
- Bis : 2-seat Super variant with 110 hp Meteor Alpha 2

In November 1981 Aeritalia bought a 50% stake in Meteor S.p.A. and by March 1983 the Fiume firm was a full subsidiary of Finmeccanica. In 1985 Meteor S.p.A. was rebranded as the rather generic Società Iniziative Industriali Italiane (or '3I'). After the 1990 Aeritalia-Selenia merger, 3I fell under Alenia. In 1992, the 3I Sky Arrow lightplane was flown. But, by 2008, the Società Iniziative Industriali Italiane had entered bankruptcy proceedings.

________________________________________

[1] https://www.carrozzieri-italiani.com/dealers/francis-lombardi/

[2] Meteor S.p.A.'s assembly hangar and offices were actually at Ronchi dei Legionari - the former airfield location of Cantieri riuniti dell'Adriatico outside of Trieste which Meteor leased from the government for 20 years.

When forming the firm, former Tenente Colonello Lauri had just left the Aeronautica Militare. Previously, Lauri had scored 11 confirmed kills as a fighter pilot with the Regia Aeronautica then Co-Belligerent Air Force.

[3] As noted, Meteor S.p.A. simply added an 'M' to existing Jakob Spalinger designations - explaining the MS.18 and MS.21. The MS.30 designations is harder to explain. Scheibe Flugzeugbau referred to this sailplane as the L-Spatz 55. Perhaps the FL-55 lightplane was already a gleam in the eye of Meteor S.p.A. and they wanted to hold that '55' number? Who knows?
 
If we want to talk about Lombardi-Avia list;

LB.1,LB.2,L.02,L.3,L.4,LM.5,LM.6,LM.7,LM.8 & LM.51.
 
This is somewhat tangential, but I am quite puzzled over the design origin of the A.V.I.A. FL.3 and 'FL.5'.

That 'FL.5' designation is associated with what becomes the CANSA C.5 biplane primary trainer. With the usual online muddle, some Italian sources attribute design of the 'FL.5' to Lombardi himself. But if not him, did someone else design such an aircraft? As a biplane, this 'FL.5' (if such ever existed) obviously cannot be the same thing as the monoplane Lombardi LM.5 designed by Pieraldo Mortara. But might that number '5' have been reassigned within the Lombardi sequence in that postwar era?

For the creation of the A.V.I.A. L.3/FL.3 light plane, most sources credit a 'design team' made up of ingegneri Cesare Mosso, Ugo Graneri, and Pieraldo Mortara. But I have my doubts about this claim. The connection between Pieraldo Mortara and 'Francis' Lombardi at A.V.I.A. is well established. Thus, one question is: Why would ing. Mortara require any outside assistance in the design of a comparatively simple, wooden trainer airframe?

Then there are ingegneri Mosso and Graneri themselves. AFAIK, both had connections back to the Società Anonima Gabardini. When the Costruzioni Aeronautiche Novaresi Società Anonima was established in 1936, Ugo Granieri was named dirigente (general manager). Graneri then formed CANSA's new Ufficio Tecnico and appointed designer Cesare Mosso as its direttore. On forming, a stated aim of CANSA was to provide RUNA [1] with aircraft designs capable of training pilots from ab initio right up to achieving their Brevetto Militari.

In 1938, the Direzione Generale Costruzioni Aeronautiche commissioned CANSA to prepare a report on training aircraft needs. Ugo Graneri responded to the DGCA with a report which recommended a mixed fleet of 2-seat trainers - side-by-side A.V.I.A. FL.3 monoplanes and tandem-seat CANSA C.5 biplanes. So far, so good. Now, most sources will tell you that the CANSA C.5 traces its ancestry back to the Gabardini-licensed Hanriot HD.1. Others insist that the C.5 biplane was CANSA's developed and 'productionized' variant of the A.V.I.A. FL.5 (with a possible interim re-designation as the CANSA F.5).

If you've skipped to the end, I guess the TLDR questions are: Was there really a prewar 'FL.5' design connected with A.V.I.A. and/or 'Francis' Lombardi? And, if yes, did that 'FL.5' evolve into the CANSA C.5 primary trainer used by RUSA?

_________________________________

[1] The Reale Unione Nazionale Aeronautica was a 1936 rebranding of the Aero Club d'Italia.
 
You are right my dear Apophenia,

During the transition from the Gabardini brand
at the CANSA one in Cameri they had been developed
experienced the Lictor 90 and Lictor 130 light aircraft,
which had no sequel. To pass through
new cycle of activity Eng. Graneri made contact
with the pilot and designer Francis Lombardi
for the production of the training biplane
FL.5, the prototype of which flew in 1938.

At the beginning of 1939 FIAT acquired a stake
of majority in the CANSA and (also
for the intervention of the gen. Savoy which was part
of the board of directors) assigned to Eng.
Giacomo Mosso the position of deputy director
general and technical director of the company.
The design of the FL.5 was revised under the guidance of
Mosso and assumed the designation C.5 (the C stood,
obviously, for CANSA); in this form
first flew 24 July 1939, piloted
by Arturo Ferrarin. For its production in
series the plant of another company was taken over
local on June 10, 1940, the same day during
which, a few hours later, was announced there
declaration of war on France and Great Britain.

That's a translation.
 
Thanks for that, hesham. What was the original source of your translation?

I'm wondering about this bit: "... Graneri made contact with the pilot and designer Francis Lombardi for the production of the training biplane FL.5". So, once again, we encounter that old chestnut of Lombardi being a 'designer'.

On the post-Gabardini Lictor 90, I take it that CANSA saw little further development potential in that airframe. Otherwise, Graneri would have recommended this monoplane in his DGCA report instead of the A.V.I.A. FL.5.
 

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