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"Lockheed" Penetrating High Altitude Endurance (PHAE)

quellish

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In 2006 Nick Cook published an article in Janes, etc. describing a Lockheed project called Penetrating High Altitude Endurance (PHAE). This was described as a HALE UAV much like Polecat, Tier 3, Tier 3-, etc. etc. etc.

Source:
http://www.janes.com/defence/news/idr/idr060321_1_n.shtml

Here's the part I found interesting at the time:
"The new UAV, sometimes known as the Penetrating High Altitude Endurance (PHAE), is believed to be capable of operating at the 70,000-80,000 ft altitudes used by the U-2. One report refers to the aircraft using engines from an inventory that has been in storage since the 1970s. This almost certainly refers to the General Electric J97-GE-3 engine for the Teledyne Ryan AQM-91 Compass Arrow UAV (a project terminated in 1971). In 1998, a NASA paper reported that 24 J97 engines were in storage at the agency's Ames research centre. The Compass Arrow exceeded 80,000 ft during tests, the highest unclassified altitude ever recorded for a subsonic jet-powered aircraft. The J97 was rated at around 25 kN and the new UAV is probably a twin-engine design. "

Now I finally remember why I found it interesting:
Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1995/09/27/24134/loral-offers-heavy-lift-uav-platform.html
"The Loral/Frontier Systems W570 flying-wing-concept vehicle has a 50m wingspan and a gross take-off weight of between 11,700kg and 13,800kg. It would be able to loiter at 80,000ft (24,400m), with up to 42h on station, fielding an unrefuelled range of 34,600km (18,700nm) and a total mission duration of 60h. The W570 would carry payloads of 4,540kg and heavier."
...
"If funding becomes available, Loral proposes that 24 General Electric engines, built in the 1980s for high-altitude UAVs and now in wind tunnel testing at NASA Ames, could be pressed into service as interim power plants."

Without quoting the whole abstract, Loral was pitching W570 around for the role we now know as Sensorcraft - and they were pitching it with the same engines Cook's sources mentioned.

I can't for the life of me recall who owns that Loral unit now, but maybe PHAE, if it exists, is actually W570. Maybe Loral found someone receptive to their pitches in the late 90s.
(It may be worthy of note that while Polecat and W570 are very similar, they appear to have very different family trees)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_J79
A paper that talks a little about why NASA had them is here:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19970004802_1996097759.pdf
(this also talks a little about TEAL RAIN)
 

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flateric

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Report on Unmanned Aerial Vehicles in Perspective: Effects, Capabilities, and Technologies
Volume 0: Executive Summary and Annotated Briefing
SAB-TR-03-01 July, 2003

"Survivable HAE"
 

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quellish

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flateric said:
Report on Unmanned Aerial Vehicles in Perspective: Effects, Capabilities, and Technologies
Volume 0: Executive Summary and Annotated Briefing
SAB-TR-03-01 July, 2003

"Survivable HAE"

Found a copy of the paper online:
http://www.ae.utexas.edu/ASE261KChaput/referencematl/UAVVol0Final.pdf

And it was one of those things that fit several pieces together.
"Alone and on the prowl"
 

LowObservable

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Quellish wins 2 internetz for linking the W570 with the J97. Loral WDL was absorbed into LockMart...
 

quellish

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LowObservable said:
Quellish wins 2 internetz for linking the W570 with the J97. Loral WDL was absorbed into LockMart...

Also found this:
http://www.janes.com/extract/jdw95/jdw00675.html
"Upgrading the W570 with two Williams FJ44-3E powerplants would offertwice the thrust of the FJ44-2E engines now on the reconnaissanceand surveillance configuration that Loral bid in the US AdvancedResearch Projects Agency's Tier II Plus UAV competition."
Also from 1995, in reference to using W570 as a loitering boost phase intercept platform. FJ44-3E is the engine Polecat uses. In the Polecat thread I notice two large bumps under the wing, which I had not seen before. These are at a location similar to what you see in the W570 CAD rendering above. I wonder if this is more than a coincidence.

Now I REALLY want to see the AIAA papers that discuss W570. ;)
 

flateric

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... 2007
 

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quellish

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Lockheed openly discussing the Penetrating High Altitude Endurance UAV in 2003 as an in house effort:


A snippet:
"The Skunk Works is also studying a Penetrating High-Altitude Endurance (PHAE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) as a potential successor to the Northrop Grumman RQ-4A Global Hawk. The effort is based on a company "conviction" that the US Air Force--and possibly other users--will need a more "survivable" globally ranging UAV. Global Hawk was successfully tested for the first time over Afghanistan last year whilst it was still officially in its advanced concept technology demonstration (ACTD) phase. A PHAE demonstrator vehicle may also be in the offing. "If we decide we need one, we could build it within a year," Kacena says. The Skunk Works PHAE study, which commenced this year, stemmed from initial analysis of the Afghanistan campaign. Had Global Hawk faced a more severe surface-to-air missile (SAM) threat, especially from Russian-developed S-300/400 long range systems, it is questionable whether it would have been able to operate in such an environment, Kacena says. Whilst Global Hawk makes use of some low observability (LO) features, it was never designed as an all-out stealth vehicle--a capability that was to have been vested in the cancelled DarkStar. Survivability, Kacena says, is not just a stealth issue-the platform must also be able to adapt to increasingly complex electronic warfare and information warfare environments."
 

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Judging from the pictures it seems to resemble the "Large Triangular Craft Seen over Area 51" or the so called "Arizona lights" of a large triangular shaped craft. So there is some evidence this aircraft is already flying?
 

quellish

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bobbymike said:
Judging from the pictures it seems to resemble the "Large Triangular Craft Seen over Area 51" or the so called "Arizona lights" of a large triangular shaped craft. So there is some evidence this aircraft is already flying?

That model is a Northrop Grumman Sensorcraft design, but the Lockheed/Boeing Sensorcraft is very similar.
During the early 1990s the "father" of the Lockheed/Boeing Sensorcraft, the QUARTZ may have flown. The program was cancelled in 1993, with the Tier III program briefly replacing it with essentially the same aircraft (which was not produced). Later the Tier III- Darkstar was an attempt to meet most of the QUARTZ requirements while removing most of the very high costs of QUARTZ.

It is possible that PHAE turned into Polecat. It is equally possible that PHAE turned into DESERT PROWLER.
 

quellish

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Matej said:
quellish said:
It is possible that PHAE turned into Polecat. It is equally possible that PHAE turned into DESERT PROWLER.

What exactly is DESERT PROWLER?

A LM UAV/UCAV that had it's first flight in 2005. Unfortunately, it does seem that it's NOT the RQ-170.
 

quellish

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http://www.paglen.com/tellyou/new_patches.html

Not the whole story.
 

Stargazer2006

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The DESERT PROWLER program seems to be depicted by a character named "The Wraith". Now wasn't there a Lockheed Wraith UAV rumored at some point?
 

seruriermarshal

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Dr. Richard Colgren
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Dr. Richard Colgren is Vice President of Viking Aerospace and is an Associate Professor of Aerospace Engineering at the University of Kansas. His research is on UAV development and flight vehicle conceptual design and flight testing. Previously he was a Senior Staff Engineer at the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Palmdale, California. There he was Lead Engineer for C4ISR and UAV programs for Air Vehicle Sciences and Systems. Previous work includes feasibility studies and preliminary/advanced design for flight control system concepts such as the F-117A, U-2/TR-1/ER-2, F-22, SR-71, CRV and HL-20 mini-shuttles, A-X proposal, B-2, F-20, and other programs. Work on UAV (Uninhabited Air Vehicle) projects includes Lockheed Martin's Tier II+, DarkStar (Tier III-), X-33, UCAV, micro-UAVs, the Wraith RPV (Remotely Piloted Vehicle) and other projects. At Northrop he designed flight control laws for the B-2 and the F-20, and developed handling qualities prediction methods. He is internationally recognized for his over 70 publications and 2 patents.

 

quellish

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Stargazer2006 said:
The DESERT PROWLER program seems to be depicted by a character named "The Wraith". Now wasn't there a Lockheed Wraith UAV rumored at some point?

That's correct, it was a cargo carrying UAV. Not related to the patch, I did look into it ;)
The idea was similar to the Configurable Air Transport concept being discussed in another thread. The aircraft kind of snapped together around the payload. This was a small, self deployable RPV - small enough to be transported in a Humvee. I have photos but not permission from the source to post them.
 

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John21

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quellish said:
Stargazer2006 said:
The DESERT PROWLER program seems to be depicted by a character named "The Wraith". Now wasn't there a Lockheed Wraith UAV rumored at some point?

That's correct, it was a cargo carrying UAV. Not related to the patch, I did look into it ;)
The idea was similar to the Configurable Air Transport concept being discussed in another thread. The aircraft kind of snapped together around the payload. This was a small, self deployable RPV - small enough to be transported in a Humvee. I have photos but not permission from the source to post them.

Are you the only one wth photos or are their possibly others out there you have heard of?
 

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John21 said:
Are you the only one wth photos or are their possibly others out there you have heard of?

Sorry but isn't it a bit silly question? What sort of answer do you expect in this case? The full name of the person with its address, email and telephone number, who give you all the information about the currently secret stuff for free?
 

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So does "ALONE" on a patch have a good chance of referring to UAV or UCAV stuff?

5 stars = DET 3 (although the prowler badge actually has 6?)

Omega symbol = LO

Does the U-2 need TCAS? :p
 

Matej

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McColm said:
I thought the tier 3 was a follow-on project to the B-2.

Follow-on project to the B-2 is something, what is currently known under the name NGB (Next Generation Bomber). Tier III is a set of specifications, not directly a vehicle. Those specifications were derived from the AARS/Lockheed QUARTZ - Tier III is simpler, smaller, cheaper and narrow purpose derivate of the AARS. And AARS was the platform, that was under the development to search the large Soviet union area, find the high priority targets and direct the B-2 bomber to this specific areas to attack those targets.
 
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