Lockheed A-12CB (Carrier based) project

[fightingirish]

"Kelly" Johnson's concept of a carrier based A-12 for the US Navy.


Remember Kellys unwritten and non-official rule according to the book "Skunk Works" written by Ben Rich:
"Starve before doing business with the damned Navy. They don't know what the hell they want and will drive you up a wall before they break either your heart or a more exposed part of your anatomy."


Picture:

Secondary source: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2772.msg40912#msg40912

Edit 1:
Primary source: Lockheed's Sr-71 'Blackbird' Family: A-12, F-12, M-21, D-21, Sr-71, by James Goodall & Jay Miller, Aerofax February 2003

The primary source, probably a book, is not known to me yet. So I still won't attach the picture to this forum.

 

[blackkite]

She had a hook, so returned to the carrier.

 

[Rickshaw]

Landing on would be a bit of an adventure, the high AoA would have made visibility over the nose rather limited.

 

[yasotay]

At TO weight I would think you would need a launching rail the full length of the ship!

 

[sferrin]

At TO weight I would think you would need a launching rail the full length of the ship!

The Blackbird empty weight was 67k lbs so you could takeoff with 15,000lbs of gas and still be within the 84k limit of the cats. Of course you'd need a half dozen or so KA-6Ds waiting for you (with the special gas).

 

[GTX]

The primary source, probably a book, is not known to me yet. So I won't attach the picture to this forum.

Primary source was "Lockheed's SR-71 "Blackbird" Family -A-12, F-12, D-21, SR-71" -Aerofax by James Goodall:

A highly recommended read.

 

[Archibald]

This is crazy ! What's next, a C-130 landing on a carrier ? Oops, they did it, on the Forrestal. Same thing for the U-2. How about a B-52 ?

 

[Blacktail]

An A-12 for operating on Carriers? That would be a neat trick.

Not only are there all the weight and fuel issues already mentioned above, but the A-12 is almost twice as long as any Carrier's elevators, so it would have to be stored on the top deck at all times when not in flight (so much for hiding your intentions from the enemy!). Unless it's only making a quick stop to refuel, that poses all sorts of maintenance problems with all the saltwater spray that incessantly drifts over Carrier flight decks.

Also, the landing run length and stall speed of the A-12 are both HUGE, and getting that airframe to withstand the enormous shock of arrestor cable landings and steam catapult take-offs would be a suicide mission for aeronautical engineers.

Lockheed was seriously living in their own little world when they came up with *this* idea.

 

[mithril]

The primary source, probably a book, is not known to me yet. So I won't attach the picture to this forum.

Primary source was "Lockheed's SR-71 "Blackbird" Family -A-12, F-12, D-21, SR-71" -Aerofax by James Goodall:

are you sure the author didn't confuse the Blackbird with the McDonell-Douglas "flying dorito"?
both had the A-12 designation.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The primary source, probably a book, is not known to me yet. So I won't attach the picture to this forum.

Primary source was "Lockheed's SR-71 "Blackbird" Family -A-12, F-12, D-21, SR-71" -Aerofax by James Goodall:

are you sure the author didn't confuse the Blackbird with the McDonell-Douglas "flying dorito"?
both had the A-12 designation.

100% certain. This is an original Lockheed drawing.

 

[Orionblamblam]

How the A-12CB would have fit on the deck of the USS Enterprise. Getting up and down the elevators seem like an adventure, though possible.

From:

Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird - Origins & Evolution​

 

[FighterJock]

How the A-12CB would have fit on the deck of the USS Enterprise. Getting up and down the elevators seem like an adventure, though possible.

From:

Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird - Origins & Evolution​

A mad idea putting the Lockheed A-12 onto aircraft carriers.

 

[TomS]

JATO bottles on deck would have been exceptionally unpleasant for the flight deck crew and any aircraft spotted nearby. And synching them with the catapult stroke seems tricky. Do you fire the bottles as the cat takes tension or wait until the end of the stroke?

 

[ZacYates]

This is mad. Fascinating, but utterly mad!

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

JATO bottles on deck would have been exceptionally unpleasant for the flight deck crew and any aircraft spotted nearby. And synching them with the catapult stroke seems tricky. Do you fire the bottles as the cat takes tension or wait until the end of the stroke?

On a catapult launch, the holdback restraining the airplane does not break until the pull of the catapult stroke is added to the thrust of the engines at full throttle. So the launch drill would be to come up with full throttle on the engines and then fire the JATO bottles. The A-12 would be held back while the ignition of the requisite number of JATO bottles is confirmed, and then the catapult would be fired, breaking the holdback. The Navy did do evaluation and qualification of JATO assist for deck runs in World War II or soon after; my understanding is that the provisions for JATO on the A3D and A4D were to allow them to make deck runs with nukes in the event that the catapults were inoperative when the balloon went up.

 

[World B4]

This is mad. Fascinating, but utterly mad!

It’s peak Cold War. Intel from nearly anywhere on a dime, pushing the limits of what technology can accomplish, at an insane cost to the taxpayer. Bless the budget, amirite?

 

[Archibald]

The primary source, probably a book, is not known to me yet. So I won't attach the picture to this forum.

Primary source was "Lockheed's SR-71 "Blackbird" Family -A-12, F-12, D-21, SR-71" -Aerofax by James Goodall:

are you sure the author didn't confuse the Blackbird with the McDonell-Douglas "flying dorito"?
both had the A-12 designation.

This is no flying dorito, rather flying tequila !

 

[Arjen]

James Goodall and co-author Jay Miller show an A-12CB drawing on page 34, complete with JATO bottles, tailhook and catapult cradle. No dorito in sight. In passing, they mention Kelly Johnson trying to sell the SR-71 to the US Navy as well.
(edit) ... as can be seen in #1?

 

[Firefinder]

JATO bottles on deck would have been exceptionally unpleasant for the flight deck crew and any aircraft spotted nearby. And synching them with the catapult stroke seems tricky. Do you fire the bottles as the cat takes tension or wait until the end of the stroke?

On a catapult launch, the holdback restraining the airplane does not break until the pull of the catapult stroke is added to the thrust of the engines at full throttle. So the launch drill would be to come up with full throttle on the engines and then fire the JATO bottles. The A-12 would be held back while the ignition of the requisite number of JATO bottles is confirmed, and then the catapult would be fired, breaking the holdback. The Navy did do evaluation and qualification of JATO assist for deck runs in World War II or soon after; my understanding is that the provisions for JATO on the A3D and A4D were to allow them to make deck runs with nukes in the event that the catapults were inoperative when the balloon went up.

The USS Midway actually did do regular Jato cat launch in the 50s for the Savage nuke bomber.

They stopped then when they switch over to the Skywarrior and proper steam cats on refits and new builds.

 

[Archibald]

Yes but... it's a SR-71. Build for Mach 3 rather than subsonic flight. And twice as heavy as a Skywarrior.
Would have been... something, if they had tried it.

 

[elmayerle]

The launch would have been exciting, the trap back aboard would have been quite "sporting".

 

[publiusr]

This is crazy ! What's next, a C-130 landing on a carrier ? Oops, they did it, on the Forrestal. Same thing for the U-2. How about a B-52 ?

That’s the JMOB/Sea Base. I want it to handle AN-225. The A-5 Vigilante wasn’t small either.