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Kamov Ka-90 high-speed stowable rotor attack helicopter concept

flateric

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Top speed stated is up to 700 km/h, but it looks really as *concept*, just look at vertical tail right behind jet exaust.

All photos courtesy Muxel (c)
 

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boxkite

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There were many extraordinary designs in the history of helicopter, but this is really breathtaking! Flateric, thanks for sharing this. :)
 

flateric

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Thanks to Muxel actually. My pics much worse. Regarding design, I think it could be easily posted into CGI, What-If Art etc. section, not just because of futuristic look, but because this is real *concept*.
 

Rafael

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Just call me Ray said:
...but...how the heck does it fly with the rotors stowed? ???
....and how many blades?
 

flateric

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Just call me Ray said:
...but...how the heck does it fly with the rotors stowed? ???
It's already a submarine mode switched on :-X
 

boxkite

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Just call me Ray said:
...but...how the heck does it fly with the rotors stowed? ???
A good question. The stowed rotor is too narrow to call it 'wing area'. What's with the controls? Is the lower part of the tail going directly through the nozzle (-> Image_052.JPG)?
 

yasotay

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We have already been told, its really a submarine. The "stowed rotors" are in fact inside the... "hull" in order to propel the craft through the correct medium. ::)
 

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Can someone translate the Russian text on the exhibition pylon/stand?
Is it really a submarine? ???
It reminds very much of the Whispercraft from the movie "The 6th Day" with and the MASK toy I had as kid.
 

flateric

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Guys, you need to be serious. *Concept* First of all, try to think of reasonable landing gear arrangement for the beauty.
 

flateric

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fightingirish said:
Can someone translate the Russian text on the exhibition pylon/stand?
'Conceptual model of helicopter-type high-speed vehicle Ka-90. Maximum speed over 700 km/h'
 

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yasotay

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Would it be a safe assumption that the "swept rotors" become a two bladed thick chord rotor system for vertical flight? As to the landing gear I would assume the vertical stabilizer would grow a wheel or skid in time. Given the current size (assumed) I would have to postulate a retracting skid system for the forward landing gear.
 

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The wing area could be similar to that, of the Bristol proposal for
a "VTOL fighter with very small wing", in this case it's just a very
low aspect ratio wing.
Strange, to my opinion is the fin directly behind the jet nozzle, a
position, that would give very high heat and accoustic loads and
I can see no benefit.
 

flateric

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Orionblamblam said:
Any indication as to size/dimensions?
Nope. All was said by Kamov staff is that "ll the works now are in R&D phase"
Once more, it's nothing more than Colani-like concept.
 

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Jemiba said:
Strange, to my opinion is the fin directly behind the jet nozzle, a
position, that would give very high heat and accoustic loads and
I can see no benefit.
It's a *good* idea if you want to vector the exhaust to counter the torque of the rotor.
 

Jemiba

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"It's a *good* idea "

Well, maybe, I still think, there would be other ways ...

Just an attempt of a drawing. A broad chord twinbladed rotor stops during
transition (necessarily forming a straight wing ?) and sweeps back until
forming a wing with an indeed VERY small area.

Maybe we can hear the Kamov designer laughing, when he sees, what we
are making of his thoughts after some glasses of vodka ... ;D
 

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Orionblamblam

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Jemiba said:
"It's a *good* idea "

Well, maybe, I still think, there would be other ways ...
Maybe. But note that it's got a big ol' turbojet exhaust, presumably to get to Ludicrous Speed. Sticking a vane in that exhaust would be easier than vectoring the exhaust, like on the F-35. It would also make the thing very responsive at high speeds. Sure, there's performance losses, and the materials issues are non-trivial, but hey. It looks cool.
 

flateric

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Orionblamblam said:
but hey. It looks cool.
Will pass this to Kasyannikov on occasion.
 

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Orionblamblam said:
Jemiba said:
"It's a *good* idea "

Well, maybe, I still think, there would be other ways ...
Maybe. But note that it's got a big ol' turbojet exhaust, presumably to get to Ludicrous Speed.
I'd think it'd almost HAVE to go that fast to stay in the air.
 

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sferrin said:
I'd think it'd almost HAVE to go that fast to stay in the air.
Note that the wings on the F-104 Starfighter were damn near afterthoughts. Wings are often sized for takeoff, and tend to be far larger than they need to be for cruise flight. That's why a great many VTOL aircraft projects have *tiny* wings... the wings are sized for cruise, not takeoff. Lift is, to first order, related tot he wing area times the *square* of the airspeed... a wing that will hold aloft an airplane at, say 150 knots will hold aloft 11 times the weight at 500 knots. Put another way, if the wing is sized for 500 knot cruise and not 150 knot takeoff... you'd only need about 9% with wing area.
 

flateric

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Jemiba said:
Well, maybe, I still think, there would be other ways ...
Another good idea is a single wide-hord blade with a weight balance put at the other side.
Another publication says that on the 'back' it's just an container for folding blades that probably don't have such wide hord.
I'm just thinking of how can you secure yaw stability without empennage...may be some multi-axis NOTAR-like system?
 

yasotay

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flateric said:
Jemiba said:
Well, maybe, I still think, there would be other ways ...
Another good idea is a single wide-hord blade with a weight balance put at the other side.
Another publication says that on the 'back' it's just an container for folding blades that probably don't have such wide hord.
I'm just thinking of how can you secure yaw stability without empennage...may be some multi-axis NOTAR-like system?
Very good point! If you have enough thrust coming out of the nozzle to give yaw authority, you are probably going to have a bit of a challenge hovering in one location.
 

sferrin

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Orionblamblam said:
sferrin said:
I'd think it'd almost HAVE to go that fast to stay in the air.
Note that the wings on the F-104 Starfighter were damn near afterthoughts. Wings are often sized for takeoff, and tend to be far larger than they need to be for cruise flight. That's why a great many VTOL aircraft projects have *tiny* wings... the wings are sized for cruise, not takeoff. Lift is, to first order, related tot he wing area times the *square* of the airspeed... a wing that will hold aloft an airplane at, say 150 knots will hold aloft 11 times the weight at 500 knots. Put another way, if the wing is sized for 500 knot cruise and not 150 knot takeoff... you'd only need about 9% with wing area.
Good point. I always wondered how they managed to keep those late-model AGM-86 CALCMs with the 3000lb warhead in the air.
 

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Maybe the fuselage adds lift, too, so giving a kind
of flying wing bi-plane ? ???
 

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Note that the wings on the F-104 Starfighter were damn near afterthoughts. Wings are often sized for takeoff, and tend to be far larger than they need to be for cruise flight. That's why a great many VTOL aircraft projects have *tiny* wings... the wings are sized for cruise, not takeoff. Lift is, to first order, related tot he wing area times the *square* of the airspeed... a wing that will hold aloft an airplane at, say 150 knots will hold aloft 11 times the weight at 500 knots. Put another way, if the wing is sized for 500 knot cruise and not 150 knot takeoff... you'd only need about 9% with wing area.
Of course all of that is true, if the airplane only has to go in a straight line. If you plan on being able to actually turn, such as in a dogfight, you're probably going to want a larger wing than that required for cruise. Also, another consideration, at least today, is how much fuel you can put into the wing as well, depending on the aircraft, of course.

Not that the Ka-90 is supposed to be able to dogfight, or anything like that. This design reminds me of the design from that Schwarzenegger movie that Scott modeled, at least in the basics of it's stopped/swept rotor.
 

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Sundog said:
Of course all of that is true, if the airplane only has to go in a straight line. If you plan on being able to actually turn, such as in a dogfight, you're probably going to want a larger wing than that required for cruise.
Ahem:

[Image of AIM-9B no longer available - Admin]

You don't need sizable *wings* for maneuver, just good control surfaces (and thrust vectoring helps, too).

But a helicopter like the Ka-90 likely would not be designed for dogfighting, but for getting from point A to point B in an efficient manner.
 
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Yes, it is some kind of design study, which would then turn into a tech demonstrator and then probably be abandoned (but might become a liason aircraft). Its hard to think of any other roles (eg. observation, scouting, interception would all be ruled out).

yasotay said:
Would it be a safe assumption that the "swept rotors" become a two bladed thick chord rotor system for vertical flight? As to the landing gear I would assume the vertical stabilizer would grow a wheel or skid in time. Given the current size (assumed) I would have to postulate a retracting skid system for the forward landing gear.
I say: Assume nothing! One of the first things I looked for was some kind of air intake into the rotor-hub.

Rafael said:
....and how many blades?
...we don't know, do we? Clever Russians!
It explains the design at least... ;)

Orionblamblam said:
It has more than adequate lifting area to fly at high speed.
But the transition... regardless of what you say, Orionblamblam, is what I'd worry about.
I certainly wouldn't fly in it anytime soon, biplanes are good for the soul...
 
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what kind of altitudes is this thing going to fly in , given that it either has no wings or just those pop out rotor blades?
 

Orionblamblam

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Avimimus said:
But the transition... regardless of what you say, Orionblamblam, is what I'd worry about.
I never said *anything* about the transition. That would be the tricky part, something that has not yet been satisfactorily achieved or demonstrated.
 

flateric

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I must admit that I'm not sure why have I decided that Ka-90 is an *attack* chopper concept. It may be *just* high-speed chopper concept.
 

Jemiba

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"I'm not sure why have I decided that Ka-90 is an *attack* chopper concept"

There aren't many plausible reasons for moving around one, or maybe two persons with high speed
and the ability to hover over the ground, I think. ;)
I thought about the single bladed rotor idea, but here I really have no idea, how a transition could
be performed. With a two bladed rotor it would be "just" a VG aircraft with the slewed wing in an
extreme position, but as was said before "that has not yet been satisfactorily achieved or demonstrated"
 

Just call me Ray

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Jemiba said:
There aren't many plausible reasons for moving around one, or maybe two persons with high speed
and the ability to hover over the ground, I think. ;)
What about as just a proof-of-concept vehicle?
 

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This is not a real image, at best a photoshop if not a CG ! :mad:
 

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Great picture,thanks alot Mil for sharing.


best regards


Pedro
 

flateric

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shoud we post this shit?
 

yasotay

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Well that answers my question.
 
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