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Kaiser-Fleetwings XA-39

frank

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I stumbled upon this designation earlier & had never heard of it til then. My first thought was that it was just a USAAF version of the XBTK when I saw that it was single-seat, single R-2800. However, another ref that I found says it had 2 (two) R-2800s. Anyone know what's correct & further info??
 

lark

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Projected Fleetwings(Kaiser) XA-39 design was
to be powered by one R-2800-27 engine.

source:United States Military Aircraft since 1908.Gordon Swanborough & Peter M.Bowers.
Putnam.London.1971.
no further info for the moment..
 
L

Libelle

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From "U.S. Army Aircraft 1908-1946" by J. Fahey says,

Year ordered - 1943
Number procured - 0
Crew - 1
Gross weight - 21772 lbs
Wingspan - 55' 10"
Length - 43' 9"
Engines - (2) PW 2800-27
Top speed - 357 (estimated)
Armament (2) 37s, (4) 50 cal. in nose

project cancelled
 

lark

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Strange, two other sources :
America's Army and Air Force Airplanes 1918 to the Present-Francis H.Dean.Schiffer.U.S.
and
A-Comme attaque-Alain Pelletier- Lariviere.France
each mentions - one single P&W R-2800-27 engine..

Only a mock-up was constructed
 

r16

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an Air International article around 1995 should have more information about it .I think the author was R.Francillon and it was about USN attack aircraft projects . If I am not mistaking it this project was practically a nose mounted jet as the exhausts were in long cowlings but it made cockpit access very difficult.
 

frank

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Thanks. Ironically, at least one site saying it was a twin was the NMUSAF! Maybe they're taking lessons from The History Channel!
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3179
 

swallow

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Their where a trio of heavily armed single-seat,single -engined monoplanes.
1st Kaiser-Fleetwins XA-39 ( Kaiser-Fleetwings and Curtiss never leave the mockup stage )

2nd Curtiss XA-40
3rd XA-41 Vultee 90 ( flown 01-11-1944 )

The Kaiser-Fleetwings used a 2000hp R-2800-27
had 2 37-mm and four .50-caliber wing guns


Source : American Combat Planes by Ray Wagner.
 

Jemiba

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"an Air International article around 1995 should have more information about it "

You're memory was right in so far, as there was a 3-part article in AI 1995 about t
he USN attack/torpedo aircraft, but there's nothing about the XA-39, only about the
XBTK ... :(
 

Antonio

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There is an entry for XA-39 plus 3 view drawings at Page 22 Minidocavia nº2 A-comme Attaque by Alain Pelletier.

It is a single engined (P&W R-2800-27) aircraft.
 

frank

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Does it look like the XBTK?



pometablava said:
There is an entry for XA-39 plus 3 view drawings at Page 22 Minidocavia nº2 A-comme Attaque by Alain Pelletier.

It is a single engined (P&W R-2800-27) aircraft.
 

Jos Heyman

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I think Fahey is describing the XA-39 as a competitor to the Beechcraft XA-39 (note the nose mounted guns) and the USAF Museum's website seems to be quoting Fahey.
The other sources seem to identify an aircraft in competition with the XA-40 and XA-41 designs.
The question is who 'introduced' the single engined design that has been quoted since Fahey's publication and what was the source of that quote.
The fact that there is a photo of the mock-up of an aircraft labelled as XA-39, does not necessarily mean that it is the XA-39, unless there is a description of some sorts on the back of the photo or another reference, such as photo number, that can be matched to some listing.
I suggest the answer is to be found in the archives of Kaiser Fleetwings and/or the USAF.
So who is going to search through them (wherever they are).
(PS I am in Western Australia, too far away from those archives)
 

Antonio

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I saw the XA-40 quoted as being the USAAF version of the XSB3C

me too. In fact I'm a bit confused and I'm trying to get more info about both types.

The XSB3C mock-up looks essentially like a tricycle SB2C while the XA-40 shows a different beast.
 
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Libelle

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Fahey's books are usually reliable but I noticed the XA-39 length and wingspan dimensions (and weight) are more comparable to large single engine aircraft of the period and not other twins like the Beechcraft XA-38.
 

Antonio

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More news:

I still need more research to put all the info bits together and get the full view:

From MiniDocavia Nº2 and Nº10 : The Curtiss XA-40 was the USAAF version of the USN XBTC-1

Stay tuned ;)

Antonio
 

frank

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IIRC, the XSB3C was essentially a tricycle-geared SB2C powered by an R-3350.


pometablava said:
I saw the XA-40 quoted as being the USAAF version of the XSB3C

me too. In fact I'm a bit confused and I'm trying to get more info about both types.

The XSB3C mock-up looks essentially like a tricycle SB2C while the XA-40 shows a different beast.
 

Antonio

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Courtesy of Lark:

From "America's Army and Air Force Airplanes, 1918-to the present. Francis H. Dean. Ed Schiffer". Page 248

Kaiser-Fleetwings XA-39
Curtiss XA-40
 

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PlanesPictures

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Some answers on your questions (and my, too) are certainly here

http://www.ginterbooks.com/NAVAL/NAVAL.htm#NF58
 

Antonio

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The link doesn't work for me. I've found that alternative:

http://www.motorbooks.co.uk/showsect.asp?id=665
 

nugo

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Hi All!

1) Kaiser-Fleetwings XA-39---Model H-60
2) Curtiss XA-40-------------Model C-93
3) Vultee XA-41-------------Model V-90

and the other competitors ? (if there were other competitors)
 

Stargazer2006

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The link to Ginter books works perfectly for me. Pometablava, if you don't know the guy's books (which I honestly doubt) you've GOT to give them a try. They are excellent! Also, don't take anything from the Minidocavia series for granted... I have found that some of them are full of typos and mistakes.

I am puzzled by the "C-93" designation for the XA-40, as it was not standard practice at Curtiss. Probably some typo along the way to indicate the manufacturer.
 

Antonio

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Stargazer,

I think I can't access that link because I use a Mac. Since I use Apple I found a handfull of webs that aren't Mac-friendly, but no problem because there is always an alternative link as I posted.

I obviously know Steve Ginter books and I have many of it in my library. No doubt their are all excellent books.

Just a personal observation, the collection is heterogeneous. I mean there are books for the modeler only because they are almost a comprehensive collection of pictures and drawings to the last detail of the aircraft. While others will appeal to both the modeler and the history of technology aficionado. I love that second class with a well researched story of the aircraft origins, unbuilt variants and lots of pics and drawings.

Thanks for the advice about Minidocavia, in fact you're not first person who warns me. I like the Minidocavias because they're handy guides to use as a starting point for deeper research.

Best regards,

Antonio
 

frank

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While I too am a fan of Ginter's books, his are not fault - free, either, not that he actually authors all of them he publishes. They have their share of typos & mistakes. One that has stuck in my mind is the book on the F8F Bearcat. In describing the color of airshow performer Corky Fornoff's (or maybe his late dad's, Bill's, both a/c were painted the same) Bearcat, ISTR it being said it was red with a black stripe. The reason I remember how wrong the colors are is because I knew those a/c in the '60s & '70s & everyone else who knew the colors were a bronze with a brown stripe. While his pic was b & w, there are plenty of color pics even on the WWW. I've seen a few other typos in other books but they don't come to mind at this point.


Stargazer2006 said:
The link to Ginter books works perfectly for me. Pometablava, if you don't know the guy's books (which I honestly doubt) you've GOT to give them a try. They are excellent! Also, don't take anything from the Minidocavia series for granted... I have found that some of them are full of typos and mistakes.

I am puzzled by the "C-93" designation for the XA-40, as it was not standard practice at Curtiss. Probably some typo along the way to indicate the manufacturer.
 

memaerobilia

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For what it is worth...
Curtiss charts show:
Design #93; Type-Scout Bomber; Primary Model Designation-Helldiver; Alternate Model Designation-XSB3C-1; Cancelled; Quantity-2; S.O.-110; Customer Navy; Plant-Colmbus; Engine, WAC,R-3350-8; Contract 88659. VSB Carrier.
*My charts only go up to Design #99, XF15C-1, 1945
 

Pioneer

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I read somewhere that the Vultee XA-41 had great manoeuvrability, and could out-turn a North American P-51B Mustang!

Regards
Pioneer
 

Jemiba

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Pioneer said:
I read somewhere that the Vultee XA-41 had great manoeuvrability, and could out-turn a North American P-51B Mustang!

According to Peter C. Smith "Stuka", the Junkers Ju 87 was very maneuvarable, too and could out-turn many
then-current fighters. Maybe a pre-requisite for ground attacker/dive bomber operating close to the ground ?
 

ACResearcher

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The XA-39 is covered in American Secret Projects, 1937-1945, authored by Tony Buttler and Alan Griffith and to be published by Ian Allan later this year. Not only are additional photos of the mockup provided but a new 3-view based on the original factory General Arrangement 3-view is included, plus dimensions, performance figures, etc., all from original USAAF and Kaiser-Fleetwings files.
Roughly, the book contains approximately 80,000 words, 135 -3-views (with at least 78 being brand new based on original drawings), and photos number between 250-300. These are rough figures as the editing process can change them.
As with all of Tony's books, you will find many, many, many designs you've never heard of. Fortunately, he and I have both been independently researching this stuff for many years, and my numerous trips to various Archives across the U.S. have provided a gold mine of data, plus help from many of the best and most generous researchers and archivists you could possibly ask for. Not only that, but Tony and I have independently identified the one or two researchers who are a total pain in the rear and won't share anything! It has, indeed, been a voyage of discovery for both and certainly a new-found friend for me.
Film at 11!
Alang
 

Stargazer2006

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This is so great to hear! Not just the fact that this new and awesome-sounding book is due soon, but the fact that you and Tony struck a friendship in the process. I have always viewed my passion for aircraft (and all my other passions in fact) as lacking purpose if not shared with others. The fact that the things we love the most enable us to connect with others, share, exchange, stimulate and enthuse is what really gives them purpose I think.

You guys are lucky. Travelling across America and going through all the archives has always been one of my fondest wishes. Fortunately there are dedicated people such as you who do the job and share their discoveries for all of us to enjoy.

Thanks a lot to you and Tony for all this!
 

AL

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ACResearcher, are you also the author of Consolidated Mess ?
 

ACResearcher

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My dear AL, I am indeed the author of Consolidated Mess. I hope your question means you have or at least have seen the book and enjoyed the information in it. Volume II covering the glass noses and a variety of interesting mods is underway even now.
Thank you for the question.

AlanG
 

AL

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Yes, I have it! Wondering if you uncovered any info on the B-29 gunnery trainer versions of the B-24? I think they also did one aircraft as a B-32 gunnery trainer.
 

Mark Nankivil

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Good Day All -

Courtesy of the Gerald Balzer Collection, what appears to be artwork for the Fleetwings XA-39.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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hesham

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Nice art work my dear Mark,

and as I know,the XA-39 was given the designation Model-34 or Model-35,right ?.
 

lark

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No ,

It's H-60 according to Allan Griffith & Tony Buttler in
American Secret Projects 1937-1945.
 

hesham

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lark said:
No ,

It's H-60 according to Allan Griffith & Tony Buttler in
American Secret Projects 1937-1945.

Yes,you are right my dear Lark,

and H-60 as I know means kaiser Model-60,frankly I made a mistake,I meant
the XBTK-1 which was given this designation.
 

hesham

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Hi,

that means this company had two series designations,the "H" and Model.
 

Stargazer2006

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lark said:
It's H-60 according to Allan Griffith & Tony Buttler in American Secret Projects 1937-1945.

Except that is a mistake, pure and simple.

The XA-39 was (quite coincidentally, in fact), the Fleetwings Model 39.

Here is a list of all documents contained in the USAF Engineering Division Finding Aid (U.S. National Archives II) and you'll see clearly that H-60 is only a report number (like H-61 and H-62). References such as "Model 39", "Design #39" or the drawing numbers (all beginning with SK39-) clearly show that the XA-39 was the Model 39 without a shadow of doubt.

Fleetwings XA-39 Rpt. W-87 Preliminary Weight & Balance Revision A
Fleetwings XA-39 Rpt. H-60 General Spec. Revision A
Fleetwings XA-39 Rpt. H-61 Model 39 Model Spec.Revision A
Comments of Fleetwings' General Specification Model 39 and Drawing No. SK39-6000-1
Fleetwings XA-39 Rpt. H-62 Model Spec
Model Specification for XA-39 Support Airplane
Mock-Up Inspection of XA-39 Airplane
Tank. Main Fuel, Assembly for the XA-39 Airplane
Ground Test Rig - XA-39 Airplane
Fleetwings XA-39 Rpt. H-62 Model Spec
Fleetwings XA-39 Data Book - Production Illustration
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK 3203 Structural Details Fuselage
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK-39-0102 Inboard Profile
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK-39-6000-1 Power Plant Inst.
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK-390101-3 Three View
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK1469 Cockpit Enclosure Assem.
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-0201 M.L. Gear Kinematics Design #39
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-0276 Armor Plate Locations Drawing SK3203
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-2003 Empennage Structure
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-3900-1 Canopy Assembly
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-7103 Inst. Surface Controls Cockpit
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-7104 Diag Land & Dive Flap Hyd Act Mech
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-7509 Door Inst. Blast Tube
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-7525 Cartridge Feed 37MM T-16 Gun
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-7550 Displacing Gear 500, 1000, 2000 bombs
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-8120 Gun Inst. Wings
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-8124 Gun & Cannon Arrangements
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-8125 Fire Power Range Using Flaps
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK39-8160 Bomb Arrangement
Fleetwings XA-39 DWG SK997 Perspective Model 39

Mark Nankivil said:
Courtesy of the Gerald Balzer Collection, what appears to be artwork for the Fleetwings XA-39.

Thanks a lot for this amazing image, Mark.
 
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