KAI T-50 and FA-50 Golden Eagle Thread

helmutkohl said:
^ on the subject of the US Navy, any ideas on what they might be leaning towards? I feel that the TF-50 and the M-346 might be the strongest candidates.
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Assuming that they're looking to replace the initial carrier landing trainers, it'll come down to which plane needs the least modifications to survive that. Saw a zero-visibility carrier landing video on FB today, that F-18E hit the deck at a 1400fpm sink rate...
 
Scott Kenny said:
Assuming that they're looking to replace the initial carrier landing trainers, it'll come down to which plane needs the least modifications to survive that. Saw a zero-visibility carrier landing video on FB today, that F-18E hit the deck at a 1400fpm sink rate...
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Carrier landing is not a UJTS requirement. Only touch and go is.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Assuming that they're looking to replace the initial carrier landing trainers, it'll come down to which plane needs the least modifications to survive that. Saw a zero-visibility carrier landing video on FB today, that F-18E hit the deck at a 1400fpm sink rate...
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They're looking to replace pretty much all of the pipeline except carrier landings, so they can conserve T-45 hours for carquals.

I can't see how it isn't the T-7.
 
TomS said:
They're looking to replace pretty much all of the pipeline except carrier landings, so they can conserve T-45 hours for carquals.
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While that makes sense, they're still going to have to make a new carqual plane at some point.
 
to confirm what Tom wrote above.. this link explains a bit more detail

U.S. Navy Is Steaming Ahead On A New Trainer | Aviation Week Network

Requirements for the service’s T-45 replacement would likely mean more engineering work for existing competitors.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

An Undergraduate Jet Training System (UJTS) request for information (RFI) released in mid-August provides a compromise: The future trainer would not be designed to go to the ship, but would need to be able to endure repeated unflared landings to practice the carrier flight profile.
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While the Navy has trickled out multiple UJTS solicitations in the past five years, service officials say they are now pressing ahead to speed up the replacement. During a panel discussion at the Tailhook Symposium in Sparks, Nevada, on Aug. 26, then-Commander of Naval Air Forces Vice Adm. Kenneth Whitesell, who is retiring, said former Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday told the command to “get out of the T-45 as fast as possible.”


The RFI calls for an assumed contract award in 2026, for a minimum of 145 aircraft at a full-rate production of 25 per year. This would make the UJTS competition the service’s second largest aviation acquisition effort, behind its sixth-generation F/A-XX program.
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Lockheed’s engineers have been reviewing the Navy’s latest RFI to determine what added work the aircraft would need. Though the requirements for unflared landings and glideslope would put stress on a trainer’s airframe over its lifespan, the company is confident it will meet the Navy’s requirements.

The increased emphasis on the carrier landing profile and repeated unflared landings is new in the August RFI, compared to previous versions released as early as 2018. Specifically, the document calls for an aircraft that can maintain a fixed angle-of-attack approach targeting a 3-deg. glideslope while maintaining field of view during an unflared landing. The aircraft needs to be capable of 6-10 unflared landings per training event, as well as conducting unflared landings throughout its service life.


To further replicate carrier operations, the aircraft must be able to maintain control and come to a stop on a minimum 6,000-ft.-long X 100-ft.-wide runway. In performance, the aircraft needs to be capable of Mach 0.9, a 7.33g sustained load factor and a ceiling of 41,000 ft.

Driving home the importance of FCLP operations, the Navy is inviting industry to a training base in Texas in October to monitor T-45 touch-and-goes in the flight profile “to enhance industry’s understanding of the unique Navy landings.”
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I think the M-346 can manage those speed and ceiling requirements but just barely.
the T-50 and T-7A should be able to.
 
I am pole, and i can explain, why they bought fa-50. Polish MOD bought fa-50, because they needed fast to replace 12 mig-29, which are sended to Ukraine. Generally, when MON was trying to find jets, which can be get fast, but the only one option was TA-50 form ROKAF. Why they bought the fa-50pl?
1. To fill target fleet (about 112-160 aircraft), because Ta-50 will be equiped in next years, so it makes better compatibility fleet.
2. KAI offers the industrial improvemnt, cooperation etc. (assembly of hulls, service center, and another),

PL MOD buys:
12 - Ta-50 (Lead in Fighter Trainer)
36 - Fa-50pl (Special version for PAF)

TA-50 have radar el/m-2032 and SPS-45v5 rwr (rokaf standard).
Fa-50pl will be have phantom strike, rwr unknown.

Ta-50 can carry basically mk-82x3 in ter-9, Mavs (D/G/H/K - versions uses by usaf, but poland have only version g-2 (upgraded)), aim-9l/m, JDAM.

Fa-50pl - will be integrated with aim-9x (integration end in 2025), and aim-120 (feasibility study is underway), and AN/AAQ-33 Sniper ATP, gbu-12. Carry the same thing like ta-50.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818955876666876413
View: https://x.com/KKarubin/status/1818955876666876413

https://twitter.com/x/status/1799170018795786421
View: https://x.com/KKarubin/status/1799170018795786421

milmag.pl

Umowa na zasobniki Sniper dla polskich FA-50 – MILMAG

Agencja Uzbrojenia zawarła umowę z rządem amerykańskim na dostawę 34 optoelektronicznych zasobników obserwacyjno-celowniczych Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-33 Sniper ATP na potrzeby lekkich samolotów bojowych F/A-50 Fighting Eagle.
milmag.pl
www.polska-zbrojna.pl

Phantom Strike dla polskich samolotów

Na samolotach FA-50 w wersji PL zostanie zainstalowany radar skanowania fazowego Phantom Strike, produkowany przez firmÄ Raytheon â podaje Agencja Uzbrojenia. Technologia AESA pozwoli pilotom przeszukiwaÄ przestrzeÅ powietrznÄ oraz lÄdowÄ w wielu kie...
www.polska-zbrojna.pl www.polska-zbrojna.pl
milmag.pl

KAI przedstawiło postępy w programie FA-50PL – MILMAG

22 lipca br. minął rok od pierwszego lotu samolotu w Polsce FA-50 należącego do polskich Sil Powietrznych. Z tej okazji koncern KAI zorganizował spotkanie z dziennikarzami branżowymi aby podsumować ten okres i podać szczegóły realizacji programu budowy wersji FA-50PL.
milmag.pl
1725895216728.png
 
Since the KAI T/FA-50 is derived from the F-16 design I wonder if Lockheed-Martin receives royalties from KAI?
 
isayyo2 said:
First time hearing about serviceability issues for the T/FA-50...

KAI Works To Solve FA-50 Maintenance Issues As Poland Voices Concerns​

KAI Works To Solve FA-50 Maintenance Issues As Poland Voices Concerns | Aviation Week Network

KAI is working to improve maintenance of the FA-50 after Poland expressed dissatisfaction with the availability of the light combat aircraft.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
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unfortunately paywalled. can anyone give me a summary of what happened specifically?
 
Via: urban mine/Defencehub:
The KAI production line was shown in a Korean TV show. The T-50/FA-50 line is running non-stop, and it's been a while since we've seen news about the T-50i. I think it was filmed in August.
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1727872528-png.70943
1727872534-png.70944
1727872560-png.70946


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBpH2Wm27aU
 
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helmutkohl said:
unfortunately paywalled. can anyone give me a summary of what happened specifically?
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From what I found, KAI was unable to provide enough spare parts to the Polish Air Force in time due to the aggressive timeline. The issue was resolved earlier this year by the ROKAF giving spare parts to KAI with the expectation that KAI will eventually reimburse them when production has ramped up.
alphabiz.co.kr

[Exclusive] Korea Aerospace Industries Resolves Poland′s FA-50 Grounding Crisis in Collaboration with Korean Air Force

[AlphaBiz = Lee Junhyun] The FA-50 grounding crisis in Poland, which caused severe turmoil for Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI, CEO Kang Goo-young) la ...
alphabiz.co.kr alphabiz.co.kr

In other news, KAI issued a tender notice for the production of a cockpit for a controllability evaluation simulator for the single-seat variant eariler this month.
 

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I didn't know, but there was a FA-50 photoed while carrying two Sky Dragon ALCM flight test dummies under its wings in Sacheon, earlier this year. As I've mentioned in the KF-X thread, the flight tests were being carried out with F-4s with special weapons interface because ROKAF was reluctant about providing spare FA-50s, but seems like they've sorted things out.

What surprises me is that FA-50 is able to carry two of them. I guess "Medium Range ATG Missile" would not be needed at all.
 

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The re-allocation of Spare parts to the OEM is done under quite an interesting sheme intended, we can guess, to limit the extend and duration of the nuisance for the KAF:

Under these policies, the Air Force provided parts to KAI in exchange for rental fees, and KAI is expected to supply replacements for the borrowed components at a later date.
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(quote from the above link)
 
n.news.naver.com

KAI, 필리핀에 FA-50 12대 추가 수출...약 1조원 규모

필리핀이 한국의 FA-50 경전투기 12대를 추가 도입하기로 결정했다. FA-50을 생산하는 KAI(한국항공우주산업)는 2014년 1차(12대) 수출에 이어 2차 수출을 달성했다. KAI는 지난 3일 필리핀 국방부와
n.news.naver.com n.news.naver.com

Phillippines to acquire 12 FA-50 Blk 20s, adding to its fleet of 12 FA-50PHs

Rumor has it that this includes upgrading existing FA-50PHs to meet Blk 20 capabilities
 
^ yeah, especially considering that these seem to be the ones with a refueling probe and AESA radars (perhaps the same model that Poland is to receive?)
 
helmutkohl said:
^ yeah, especially considering that these seem to be the ones with a refueling probe and AESA radars (perhaps the same model that Poland is to receive?)
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Yes, block 20. Though some details concerning the avionics will be different, such as no MIDS for example. In comparison, the deal in 2014 for the initial buy of 12 jets were valued at $420 million. Considering cumulative inflation for the last 10 years, that would be around $570 million. I guess the extra cost reflect added capability.
 
Scott Kenny said:
F16/50s should be close to that price. Crud, F-35As are in the range of 90mil each.
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By F-16/50 you mean block 50s? So second hand Falcons that are at least 20 years old? I don't know if you notice, but that's a pretty bad comparison. And for a good measure, 20 F-16Vs that Philippines is trying to procure is projected to cost $5.6 billion. Now come back to me and ask me if FA-50 is a bargain or not.

Also, 90 million for F-35 is flyaway, not programme. I said programme cost. What Philippines is paying for. By the same measure ROKAF TA-50 block 2 costed $37 million per aircraft, 1/2.5 the cost of $90 milliom figure you've cited. Hell, USAF contract for the production of Bulgarian F-16Vs under FMS costed $64 million per aircraft by the same measure, which is only a bit shy of double the price of TA-50 block 2. And that was before the inflation from 2022.
 
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KAI promotional videos for T-50 containing footages of its testing campaign from mid 2000s. I've included the screenshot of some interesting bits like the EL/M-2032 mounted on the radome, gun firing test, in-flight spin chute deployment. I wish ROKAF T-50s retained the livery of the first prototype. Personally feel it fits the nick name much better.

KAI-T-50-Golden-Eagle-08.png
 

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Older roadmap for T-50 variants from early 2000s. ROKAF envisioned deepstrike/AI missions into northern ends of North Korea using A-50 to UCAV MUM-T (before the word "MUM-T" saw widespread adoption). Another interesting variants are RA-50 and EA-50. I think these were discussed in the previous pages before. Maybe not, but nonetheless, T-50 was ultimately too small for those roles. ROKAF instead opted for RF-16 to replace RF-4 and UAVs for recon role and as for EA-50, there are discussions about developing an EA variant of KF-21.
(image credits to 5thsun)

Also, the A-50 single seat variant is essentially the same as the new single seat variant of FA-50 currently under development. It took 20 years to do a 360.
 

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ESR-500A development progress :
Start of development June of 2021
Prototype designed and produced by end of 2022
System manufacturing and roof lab testing 2023
NLR chosen as flying testbed (Cessna Citation II, PH-LAB) services provider, test radome and equipment produced and supplied to KAI for evaluation 2024
Testbed aircraft modification almost complete as of April of 2025
Will obtain flight certification from the Dutch aviation authorities between June and September of 2025
Flight testing from October of 2025 until June of 2026

Apart from the prototype sent to NLR, they'll produced 4 prototypes (2 for environmental impact assessment, 1 for avionics integration and 1 for flight testing on FA-50) from 2025 until 2026

FA-50 integration campaign started this year and the evaluation is scheduled to end by 2028
 

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