Japanese cruise missiles

[ayatsuji]

At this point, the only thing Japan is waiting for is the submarine-launched JSM. Unless they surprise me and develop their own torpedo tube capsule for their Type 25s

We will use a VLS rather than a capsule launch system.
A VLS system for the submarine Taigei and the Mockup type 25 ship-to-ship guided missile have been added to this year's planned procurement items.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/c670d5a9a145cf637d6f006930c7e5bb856c4fa3

 

[Scott Kenny]

We will use a VLS rather than a capsule launch system.
A VLS system for the submarine Taigei and the Mockup type 25 ship-to-ship guided missile have been added to this year's planned procurement items.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/c670d5a9a145cf637d6f006930c7e5bb856c4fa3

Huh. Was not expecting that.

Guess I'm too used to the USN version where the only thing in the VLS is Tomahawks, with Harpoons in the torpedo tubes.

 

[NMaude]

I wonder if the Japanese navy will ever design, build and commission SSNs?

 

[ayatsuji]

Huh. Was not expecting that.

Guess I'm too used to the USN version where the only thing in the VLS is Tomahawks, with Harpoons in the torpedo tubes.

Japan, They consider VLS and torpedo tubes too for 25SSM. But Japan bought Harpoon blk 2 at 2015. So I think they use 25SSM only with VLS.

I wonder if the Japanese navy will ever design, build and commission SSNs?

There’s no one here...The working-age population is projected to decline by at least 20 million over the next 20 years.
If Japan has SSN,they have no people for it.

 

[ayatsuji]

Japan, They consider VLS and torpedo tubes too for 25SSM. But Japan bought Harpoon blk 2 at 2015. So I think they use 25SSM only with VLS.

There’s no one here...The working-age population is projected to decline by at least 20 million over the next 20 years.
If Japan has SSN,they have no people for it.

Sorry, I was mistaken. The bidding process for the 25SSM has already concluded—at least for the version launched from torpedo tubes.
So, what would the VLS be used for, then? Tomahawks?

https://www.mod.go.jp/j/press/news/2025/10/07b.html

 

[Scott Kenny]

There’s no one here...The working-age population is projected to decline by at least 20 million over the next 20 years.
If Japan has SSN,they have no people for it.

That definitely is a problem. SSNs need a lot of people the way the USN mans the engineroom.

Sorry, I was mistaken. The bidding process for the 25SSM has already concluded—at least for the version launched from torpedo tubes.
So, what would the VLS be used for, then? Tomahawks?

https://www.mod.go.jp/j/press/news/2025/10/07b.html

Tomahawks would be my guess.

 

[zjz]

That's the NSM/JSM for the US and Japan built their own.

At this point, the only thing Japan is waiting for is the submarine-launched JSM. Unless they surprise me and develop their own torpedo tube capsule for their Type 25s

Are there more news on the sub launched JSM? Nothing has been heard for a long while ......

 

[Scott Kenny]

Are there more news on the sub launched JSM? Nothing has been heard for a long while ......

Nothing I'm aware of. Just that Netherlands and Spain intended to make sub-launched JSM, announced to Dutch Parliament in 2025.

 

[NMaude]

A sub-launched JSM would have to be in its' own buoyant launch-capsule?

 

[ayatsuji]

That made the news back in 2013, didn't it? I haven't heard a thing about it since then.
https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...es/defence-security-report.aspx?ID=1065975498

 

[Scott Kenny]

A sub-launched JSM would have to be in its' own buoyant launch-capsule?

I believe so.

 

[Kota]

I'm not 100% sure so don't take it as fact, but I recall that the KHI SSM with 2000km range is the one they are planning on integrating into vertical launch systems. The Type 25 will stick to being containerized and possibly tube launched from subs. What I do know for certain is that the Tomahawk buy was always meant to be an interim purchase meant to be replaced by a domestic system in the future. The only currently in development replacement would be the KHI cruise missile. There is also the new SS(G)K class being developed that will have vertical tubes and the design work is being done by KHI, so it would make sense that they would make their missile the primary vertical launched system used.

 

[Scott Kenny]

That does make sense.

There is also the new SS(G)K class being developed

Oh? Do you have more details? Like projected number of VLS tubes?

 

[Kota]

That does make sense.



Oh? Do you have more details? Like projected number of VLS tubes?

There is still a lot up in the air, but so far illustrations have shown VPMs as an example system. Maybe 3-4 VPMs or domestic equivalent per boat

 

[Scott Kenny]

There is still a lot up in the air, but so far illustrations have shown VPMs as an example system. Maybe 3-4 VPMs or domestic equivalent per boat
View attachment 821331

Huh. That image implies that the hull section with the VPMs is forward of the sail. Unusual.

For a sub, nothing wrong with using VPMs. The bulk they have is necessary for subs. It's not necessary for surface ships (see the Zumwalts using VPMs for CPS missiles)

 

[Kota]

https://news.jp/i/1462491867361640552?c=39550187727945729
Welp just to add onto this discussion with news from today. Work started on an underwater launch system for hypersonic missiles. Also work to deploy unmanned subs with long range missiles.

 

[Kota]

Not necessarily a cruise missile, but this threat has kinda evolved into general Japanese missile talk and there isn't another thread to post this.

https://j-defense.ikaros.jp/docs/mod/005827.html
Japan has started recruiting companies to develop a successor to Type 07 VL-ASROC. Its still in the early stage, but I've also seen some people speculate that it might become a joint program with the US or UK as both of those have ASROC systems in early development.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I've also seen some people speculate that it might become a joint program with the US or UK as both of those have ASROC systems in early development.

The USN really needs a new, longer range replacement for the old VL-ASROC

 

[Kota]

The USN really needs a new, longer range replacement for the old VL-ASROC

The USN and RN both have programs simply called LRAW for Long Range Anti-Submarine Weapon, but seem to be separate. The USN program will seemingly start development in FY27 which beings Oct 1st. This will make it hard for Japan to hop on the program for any joint development. The RN program is still in the concept phase, making it much easier to get joint development going. Either way, I would see joint development mainly focusing around the booster section with the torpedo payload being modular for either a Stingray or Type 12 successor/improved model.

Still solo development is highly likely. Type 23 A-SAM is using the Type 07 1st stage booster and there is an active project for A-SAM Kai, so whatever 1st stage booster is developed for the Type 07 replacement might also be used in A-SAM Kai

 

[NMaude]

The USN really needs a new, longer range replacement for the old VL-ASROC

Well they could use a two-stage launch-booster with the first-stage being the Mk-72 booster.

 

[Kota]

A lot to unpack here.

Previously known about stuff

• More Type 12 Kai
• More Type 25 SSM
• More Type 25 HGV
• Further development on the HCM
• JSM for F-35A, JASSM for F-15JSI
• More warships being modified with Tomahawk capabilities (Probably another Kongo class)
• 10 more F-2s getting Type 12 ASM compatibility
• Tactical AI satellites (in the missile section so likely for terminal guidance)

New stuff

• Purchase of a submarine launched guided missile (tube launched)
• Purchase of a foreign low cost Stand-Off-Missile while developing a domestic solution (people are speculating its the Anduril Barracuda)
• SOM launch module for UUVs

 

[zjz]

New stuff

• Purchase of a submarine launched guided missile (tube launched)

I wonder if the JSM shown is meant for the submarine capsule of the JSM, or for the F-35?

 

[ayatsuji]

I wonder if the JSM shown is meant for the submarine capsule of the JSM, or for the F-35?

for F-35.

USM(潜水艦発射型誘導弾) will launched from torpedo tubes.
Will Underwater Hypersonic guided missile (水中発射型極超音速誘導弾) launched from VLS tubes?
Underwater Hypersonic guided missile is launched from various water-column platforms. Does it mean It isn't only launched VLS ?

 

[Seragina]

Looks like latest image render of Type-12 SSM-ER is missing here.
This is the 1000-1500 km range Tomahawk missile "replacement". Japan only now has purchased TLAM as interim solution.
I assume the 2000 km variant or design will termed Type-12 SSM-LR later?

 

[Scott Kenny]

Looks like latest image render of Type-12 SSM-ER is missing here.
This is the 1000-1500 km range Tomahawk missile "replacement". Japan only now has purchased TLAM as interim solution.
I assume the 2000 km variant or design will termed Type-12 SSM-LR later?

More likely Type-12 SSM-Kai, or a new type number, IMO

 

[ayatsuji]

The mindset of the officials responsible for assigning names is bafflingly complex, so the names will likely just keep getting longer and longer.
For Example,03式中距離地対空誘導弾（改善型）能力向上 mean Type-03 SAM -kai -ability improvement type.
So Type-12 SSM -kai -ability improvement type?

 

[Kota]

Looks like latest image render of Type-12 SSM-ER is missing here.
This is the 1000-1500 km range Tomahawk missile "replacement". Japan only now has purchased TLAM as interim solution.
I assume the 2000 km variant or design will termed Type-12 SSM-LR later?

The Type 25 missile has its own designation now. There is no reason to keep referring it to Type 12 XYZ as there was never an official way to refer to it beyond something like Type 12 Capability Improvement. It's its own missile and its actual connection to the Type 12 is so vague and undefined that the realistic explanation is it either started as a true Type 12 modification, but that was quickly ditched without the ability to change the program name or to obfuscate it's true capabilities.

The missile you are referencing in your pic is either going to be called Type 25 Kai or get a new designation. The 2000km missile is the one being developed by KHI and is a different program.

More likely Type-12 SSM-Kai

Type 12 Kai already exists and is just a Type 12 with an improved engine and INS