Jaguar kills off its model line, with no clear plan for the future

Status
Not open for further replies.
I know why companies build SUVs, it gives them a dodge around the CAFE fuel-economy standards for the American market.

But Jag-yoo-are is a car company. Especially when you're competing against Rovers in the same price point for SUV sales. Who TH is going to buy a "Jaguar" when they can buy a "Range Rover" that is the same shape and more or less the same cost?

Make a modern XK-E, FFS. Bodywork that looks like silk draped over the internal structure, like the 1950s and 1960s D-Type and E-types. Manual transmission, limited slip differential, etc.

A car someone drives because they enjoy driving. Concentrate on the same kind of feeling you get driving a V12 Ferrari, just at a significantly lower price point. See also Lotus Esprit and Evora, Mitsubishi EVO, Subaru WRX, Toyota 86, Nissan Skyline, crud even the American V8 ponycars.

And once you have that, make a crazy halo car that is V12 driving fun dialed up to 13 (because dialing it up to 11 isn't enough). Some crazy street legal race car. Tune the exhaust to sound like an F1 car, just not as loud.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I know why companies build SUVs, it gives them a dodge around the CAFE fuel-economy standards for the American market.

But Jag-yoo-are is a car company. Especially when you're competing against Rovers in the same price point for SUV sales. Who TH is going to buy a "Jaguar" when they can buy a "Range Rover" that is the same shape and more or less the same cost?

Make a modern XK-E, FFS. Bodywork that looks like silk draped over the internal structure, like the 1950s and 1960s D-Type and E-types. Manual transmission, limited slip differential, etc.

A car someone drives because they enjoy driving. Concentrate on the same kind of feeling you get driving a V12 Ferrari, just at a significantly lower price point. See also Lotus Esprit and Evora, Mitsubishi EVO, Subaru WRX, Toyota 86, Nissan Skyline, crud even the American V8 ponycars.

And once you have that, make a crazy halo car that is V12 driving fun dialed up to 13 (because dialing it up to 11 isn't enough). Some crazy street legal race car. Tune the exhaust to sound like an F1 car, just not as loud.
Click to expand...
I looked at getting an F-Type a couple of years back. Looked great but unfortunately sucked to drive.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I know why companies build SUVs
Click to expand...
Where I live, it is simply what many people want. Some of it is compensating behaviour (big car, tiny... well, you know), some of it is other insecurities, some of it is aging drivers who can't easily climb out of their car anymore, some of it is just fashion. Take your pick.
 
Last edited:
The same Grace Jones who 'beat up' Mr Michael Parkinson for allegedly ignoring her during an interview? Wow, great ad.........

It was Russell Harty, my bad.
 
https://www.ft.com/content/e164df19-54e2-48d8-b07c-50687813bf56
"Jaguar managing director Rawdon Glover said in an interview with the Financial Times that the intended message had been lost in “a blaze of intolerance” on social media and denied that the promotional video was intended as a “woke” statement."

Rawdon Glover.

RAWDONGLOVER
 
Orionblamblam said:
https://www.ft.com/content/e164df19-54e2-48d8-b07c-50687813bf56
"Jaguar managing director Rawdon Glover said in an interview with the Financial Times that the intended message had been lost in “a blaze of intolerance” on social media and denied that the promotional video was intended as a “woke” statement."

Rawdon Glover.

RAWDONGLOVER
Click to expand...
Someone's parents did not properly vet their child's name... :D

How about a simple "WTF does this picture of a bunch of people have to do with a car company?"

Remember when Lexus and Infinity car brands were getting launched in the US?
  • Lexus concentrated on little details about the cars, for example how the muscles in your back are vertical, so all the stitching in the lumbar part of the seats also run vertically because that's more comfortable.
  • Infinity ads were things like stacks of stones and little streams, very Zen, but not building interest in the cars.
Guess which company had a much stronger launch?
 
Genius or accident? An examination by the Beeb.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20ny39wpg3o
Either way, the rebrand has grabbed people's attention and Jaguar has since admitted it not only expected such debate - but it wanted it.

[...]

But it's clear, as Erin Baker, editorial director at AutoTrader puts it, that the carmaker is trying to ditch the "sage" image, that its cars are only for older, white men, who perhaps frequent golf clubs, or wear cravats and smoke cigars.

"It’s been languishing in terms of sales for years now," she said. "Something has to change fundamentally with the brand."

But Ms Baker is a fan of the rebrand ad. "I think it needs to really stir emotion, it needs to stir curiosity, get people asking questions," she says.

I remember reading, long ago, that a Cadillac exec was worried that eventually, 'the average age of our customers will be "deceased".'

The point is, everyone is now asking 'What about the car?' That's exactly I would want people to be asking if I was a marketing exec. Now let's see if they can follow up.

SUVs are the biggest sellers these days but it makes strategic sense to launch the new brand with a GT that has niche appeal because while a lot of people buy SUVs, they don't talk about them much. Analysts used to say 'loss leader' to describe a product that would not make a profit itself but which would raise or remake brand awareness so that overall the producer would see enlarged appeal by virtue of suddenly being 'cool.' Now marketing types call the products 'halo' cars, eggbeaters, or whatever, because it doesn't have the word 'loss' in it. A halo product adds appeal to the brand overall. When you buy an SUV to transport your kids to soccer practice, you choose a cool brand so that you can pretend just a bit that you aren't middle-aged because that same brand makes something really desirable that you fantasise about.

Harley Earl understood this way back in the 50s when he was designing for GM. He said that he wanted buyers to think that they were going on a vacation when they bought cars. Thus, he designed cars that looked like jet fighters so that drivers could imagine that they were pilots. Cosplay, as we call it now.

'Brand' is a wider concept that spreads from individual special products in a manufacturer's range to their more mundane products.

Jaguar does have the advantage of being in the JLR - Jaguar Land Rover group - because the Land/Range Rover products are successful and produce reliable revenue. This could allow that net losses on the Jaguar brand for the next few years while the GT raises awareness might be worth the risk until the more SUV, which will be hopefully be profitable on its own terms, comes online.

Consider this: Audis, Volkswagens, and Skodas all share platforms. Audis are expensive, Volkswagens are not so expensive, and relatively speaking, Skodas are bargains. If you're rational, a Skoda is the best buy and they sell very well, but Audi is also successful and brings in revenue through its higher margins. Volkswagen tried to sell a Mercedes S-class competitor called the Phaeton and by all accounts it was mechanically competent... but it flopped because no-one would take a Volkswagen luxury executive car seriously, even if it was cheaper. In that sector, saving money is nothing to boast about - being able to spend too much is.

Jaguar has long tried to match German brands and failed. It's always had only niche appeal. To be fair to Ian Callum, the cancelled models I presented above are incredibly boring but I don't think that was his fault. The C-X75 supercar shows what he can do, for sure. The company's doctrine was limiting him to tired old themes and it's no wonder that he quit.

I can understand then that Jaguar's board has finally decided that their only hope is to break away from merely being an alternative to Land/Range Rover and to challenge Bentley, as they've claimed, because they're backed into a corner. It's going to be margins instead of volume, with Land/Range Rover accounting for volume.

Bentley's confident and secure in their niche and my bets are with them, but Jaguar hopes that the market will be large enough for them too. Maybe.
 
Last edited:
Here's an idea--how about making a car cheap to fix?

That really would be new territory for them.
 
publiusr said:
Here's an idea--how about making a car cheap to fix?

That really would be new territory for them.
Click to expand...
My father once said that his second (and last) Jag cost the family a European holiday in repair bills.

To put that in perspective, we were living in Australia, which makes the whole getting-there thing significantly more expensive than it is for Brits or probably even Americans.
 
After spending some decades in product promotion, a few words. I have seen other industries do the "show me the concept but not the product" promotions. The results are uniformly disappointing.

You don't frustrate potential buyers.

You are selling to current buyers.

You find out what current buyers actually want.

Top down is not the way you run any business.

The customer may not know what he wants but you make every effort to give him what he is asking about.
 
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/jaguar/new-jag-can-t-work-can-it/
It all rides on Gerry McGovern. I remember seeing his LRX concept and thinking, yuck, that's not a Range Rover. It sold, as the production Evoque, like crazy, promoted by Victoria Beckham like it was a big, expensive shoe or something.

Full fat Range Rovers now cost a bomb too. Brand equity is the term for paying lots more.

So I guess we will see if he has done it again next Monday night.
 
Last edited:
edwest4 said:
After spending some decades in product promotion, a few words. I have seen other industries do the "show me the concept but not the product" promotions. The results are uniformly disappointing.

You don't frustrate potential buyers.

You are selling to current buyers.

You find out what current buyers actually want.

Top down is not the way you run any business.

The customer may not know what he wants but you make every effort to give him what he is asking about.
Click to expand...

So far all it's done is given fuel to parodists

View: https://youtu.be/cykO4b62mWc?si=5At-4n3ciUvZhnNI
 
In my opinion it's got everyone asking 'WTF?" and 'What's the car going to look like?' and that's exactly what they want. Ridiculousness may well be the way to make a break with the strategy of the past, which has indisputably failed. From what I've seen of the cancelled models, their demises were mercy killings.

Mike Pryce's link above has highlighted an important point: people love the Jaguar brand but don't buy the cars - like the Church of England, everyone loves the idea but no-one goes to church. That simply isn't good enough for a business that has to sustain itself.

I'm reminded a little of the sf fan types who constantly moan 'Worst. Episode. Ever." and drag the objects of obsession into the mire of mediocrity if the producers are stupid enough to listen to only them.

For decades now Jaguar has tried to compete with the big three Germans and failed. This is their only choice now and they've realised that they can't sell all of their cars to Nigel Farage. Their new strategy is to pursue low volume and high margins backed up by but distinct from the Land Rover brands for capital, and without competing with them in any way,

In a couple of days we'll see if the new Jaguar (or jaGUar) brand identity can establish itself. Over the next decade or so we'll see if the business model works.
 
Last edited:
Jaguar Will Buy Back Thousands Of I-Pace EVs That Could Catch Fire

I’d say that Jaguar has a lousy track record with EVs. But there again, judging by the issues with the Ingenium 2.0 liter diesel, their ICE model range was perceived to be a bit rubbish as well, especially in Britain. It’s quite telling that parent company Tata doesn’t use the Ingenium engine in any of their own India market products. Instead the Tata Harrier and Safari use a Fiat diesel!

I think it’s time to admit that there is nothing to save from the Jaguar brand. Arguably, the Alfa Romeo Giulia was a more reliable and successful BMW 3-series competitor than the Jaguar XE and that’s not saying much. I haven’t heard as much disparagement of the Ingenium petrol engines in North America, but the diesel 4 cylinder really devastated Jaguar in the UK as it was the predominant choice. ( I can only suppose that Americans predominantly lease JLR products as only a nutter would own one out of warranty. Second owner and out-of-warranty reliability issues don’t get much notice on this side of the Atlantic, battery fires aside.) The timing chain issues were inexcusable, especially since a flywheel side timing change replacement requires pulling the entire engine. Diesel oil dilution was more of a puzzler and probably had something to do with the 2 year or 21,000 mile recommended oil change interval.

There’s plenty of scope for jokes about Jaguar’s “faulty Lucas electricals” but the battery fire issue is increasingly common among non-Tesla EVs. The buyback was only for first year I-Pace models and buyers have been offered free exchanges for 2024 I-Paces or full refunds of the original purchase price. Replacing and/or refunding is an expensive remedy. No wonder they need to move the price of Jaguars from $70k to $200k. That will probably (just) cover the warranty costs.
 
Rhinocrates said:
In my opinion it's got everyone asking 'WTF?" and 'What's the car going to look like?' That's exactly what they want. Ridiculousness may well be the way to make a break with the strategy of the past, which has indisputably failed. From what I've seen of the cancelled models, their demises were mercy killings.
Click to expand...

Given the new marketing, will the successor to the F-Type be called the WTF-Type?

DRW
 
"Ginny Buckley, the boss of British EV-buying website Electrifying.com, has seen the new Jaguar but agreed not to disclose details yet. But, she said, “nothing has made my jaw drop as much in 27 years of reporting on cars”."

I remember seeing an XK8 for the first time and thinking it looked funny with it's droop snoot and slightly odd proportions. It has aged well I think. I wonder if this will?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/01/claws-are-out-as-jaguar-heads-down-ev-rebrand-road 1733048319900.jpeg
 
The fact that EVs are a lot quieter than ICE cars has led some to suggest adding a noisemaker to warn blind pedestrians and the hard of hearing that it's nearby. Others have suggested adding a coordinated engine revving sound tied to acceleration that imitates normal gas engine sounds.
 
edwest4 said:
The fact that EVs are a lot quieter than ICE cars has led some to suggest adding a noisemaker to warn blind pedestrians and the hard of hearing that it's nearby. Others have suggested adding a coordinated engine revving sound tied to acceleration that imitates normal gas engine sounds.
Click to expand...
That seems rather uncreative. Why stop there?

For when you're really making the most of the performance.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2eqX93umXo&t=3s

For when you're driving slowly.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw-_Ew5bVxs
 
Last edited:
Some adults prefer that their new EV toy sound like it had a classic car engine.
 
To use an American turn of phrase, "pathetic is a thing."
 
Mike Pryce said:
"Ginny Buckley, the boss of British EV-buying website Electrifying.com, has seen the new Jaguar but agreed not to disclose details yet. But, she said, “nothing has made my jaw drop as much in 27 years of reporting on cars”."

I remember seeing an XK8 for the first time and thinking it looked funny with it's droop snoot and slightly odd proportions. It has aged well I think. I wonder if this will?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/01/claws-are-out-as-jaguar-heads-down-ev-rebrand-roadView attachment 750382
Click to expand...
The XK8 body lines refer back to the old D-type and E-types.

Something like that, with some more coke-bottle added so the side windows start lower but curve back up over the rear fenders is what I draw when you say "jaguar car"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom