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Italian Nuclear Powered Ship Designs

Antonio

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from:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2808.msg22427/topicseen.html#msg22427

nuclare submarine project named "Guglielmo Marconi", or the logistic ship named "Enrico Fermi"

Anybody has pics and info about this designs?

Thanks in advance :)
 

zhuravlik

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Some little information about this project:
Enrico Fermi civilian/military ship: 18.000 t, lenght 174 m, 20 knots.
Guglielmo Marconi SSN: 3400 t, lenght 83 m, width 9,6 m.
Here is a link( in italian, sorry).
http://www.marina.difesa.it/Storia/storianavale/dopoguerra07.asp

Regards

Zhuravlik
 

Antonio

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Here is a link( in italian, sorry).

Many thanks for the link Zhuravlik. Language is not a problem, I can read Italian :)

Regards

Antonio
 

archipeppe

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pometablava said:
Here is a link( in italian, sorry).

Many thanks for the link Zhuravlik. Language is not a problem, I can read Italian :)

Regards

Antonio

If it is so things changes.
I can really advice you to read, if you can, the EDAI monograph about Marina Militare Italiana (MMI) realized by Ruggero Stanglini and published by EDAI in 1991.

It is a good source of information, and also some data, about these interesting projects.
I can extract you some info as follows:

"Specifiche previste: lunghezza fuori tutto 83 metri, diametro massimo scafo resistente 9,55 metri, dislocamento 2.300 tonnellate (3.400 immerso).
La propulsione doveva essere affidata ad un impianto nucleare ad acqua pressurizzata da 30 MW di potenza termica, derivato dal modello S5W della Westinghouse e studiato dal CAMEN, che alimentava due turbine (alta e bassa pressione) accoppiate ad un diruttore. La potenza massima erogata sull'unico asse con elica a 5 pale era di 15.000 cavalli, cui doveva corrispondere una velocità massima continuativa di 30 nodi."

"La carena si presentava come un solido di rivoluzione (serie 58) le cui forme erano derivate dalle esperienze effettuate dall'US Navy con il battello sperimentale Albacore, e che permetteva lo sviluppo di elevate velocità in immersione. La manovrabilità sarebbe stata assicurata da superfici di governo poppiere cruciformi (timoni orizzontali e verticali), mentre i timoni orizzontali di prora erano posizionati sulla falsatorre allo scopo di migliorare le prestazioni di sensori elettroacustici. 4 paratie stagne delimitavano il locale siluri (6 tubi da 533 su due file orizzontali da 3 con 30 armi di riserva), il compartimento destinato al controllo dell'unità e ai locali di vita (su 4 livelli), il compartimento reattore, il compartimento dell'impianto di distribuzione dell'energia elettrica e del sottostante gruppo diesel-generatore di emergenza, e, infine, il compartimento del gruppo propulsore ed i due gruppi turbo-alternatori con una potenza unitaria di 1.800 kW.

Era prevista una spesa di 30 miliardi di lire del 1959, cifra che rendeva utopistico il proseguimento del progetto, date le difficoltà di bilancio delle FFAA. Oltre a ciò mancò la disponibilità americana a fornire la necessaria assistenza tecnico-logistica. Il Marconi comunque non fu l'unico progetto relativo ad unità a propulsione nucleare, quanto piuttosto quello su cui si concentrarono maggiormente le attenzioni di detrattori e fautori di una marina militare di rango mondiale."
 

zhuravlik

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Hi pometablava

I've found an article on a local newspaper wich states that the main opponent to italian SSN was Hyman Rickover.
The plot thickens... :)

http://www.cronacheisolane.it/not_04_460.htm

Regards

Zhuravlik
 

archipeppe

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airman said:
molto interessante - very interesting ! ;D :D

You can really say it!!
One thing that it is not very well known, especially in Italian pop culture, is that '60s was a real "roaring period" for both Italian Navy and Air Force, with a lot of high-level technological programs and an aggressive policy to sustain it (at least for a while.... we are always Italian at the end...).
 

zhuravlik

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Hi lads

Found this small picture on:
http://pub10.bravenet.com/forum/795583276/show/951755

Regards

Zhuravlik
 

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Trident

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That's a picture of Skipjack (SSN 585), but if I interpret the info posted here correctly despite my non-existant Italian language skills Marconi would have been broadly similar.
 

archipeppe

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zhuravlik said:
D'oh :(
Sorry for this...

Regards

Zhuravlik

Don't worry, asap I will try out to scan the image inside the book of Stanglini.
It depicts a scale model of the Marconi realized in the first '60s and exposed in a Milan Fair or something like that (currently I don't remember).
 

zhuravlik

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Ok lads,

I've scanned that picture from "La Marina Militare".
As Trident said, is broadly similar.

Regards

Zhuravlik
 

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archipeppe

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Ok Zhuravlik, that's the image in the book I have.

Essentially is a sort of scale model of the Marconi and far as is the only image I've ever seen related to this intriguing project.
 

zhuravlik

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Ok guys,
I'm going serious with this... ;D
I've just talked with Marina Militare "Ufficio Storico" and they told to me that extensive information about this project is not available because must pass 50 years from the end of the project.
But they also said to me that some little information should be available.
I hope so!

Regards

Zhuravlik
 

Trident

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zhuravlik said:
Ok lads,

I've scanned that picture from "La Marina Militare".
As Trident said, is broadly similar.

Regards

Zhuravlik

Nice pic! Infact, broadly similar might be an understatement, looking at the real thing :eek: It appears to be essentially a stretched Skipjack with a longer cylindrical midships hull section (which agrees well with the identical beam of 9.6m and a length of 83 vs. 76m). The sail, torpedo tube arrangement, control surfaces and propeller appear to be the same and the reactor was intended to be an American S5W as well.

So if any modeller wanted to build an obscure and exotic sub with minimum effort, this would present a unique opportunity ;)

And we're going to pass that magic 50 year mark *relatively* soon ;)
 

zhuravlik

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So if any modeller wanted to build an obscure and exotic sub with minimum effort, this would present a unique opportunity

Well, might be...me!
R/C of course... 8)

I've found little more infos about this...and a fantastic forum:
http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php?showtopic=19399&hl=marconi
In the last post is stated that 2 models are known of this sub: one at Palazzo della Marina, Rome and another one at Caserma Scirè, La Spezia.
Tomorrow i'll speak with Com. Cardea, Chief of historic office of Marina Militare...We will see.
I've found also some other political background in G.Giorgerini's "Uomini sul fondo" (ISBN 88-50537-0)
but nothing really new.

Regards

Zhuravlik
 

Tzoli

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zhuravlik said:
Ok guys,
I'm going serious with this... ;D
I've just talked with Marina Militare "Ufficio Storico" and they told to me that extensive information about this project is not available because must pass 50 years from the end of the project.
But they also said to me that some little information should be available.
I hope so!

Regards

Zhuravlik

I think that 50 years are passed quite some time ago!
Can you ask again if they would provide the necessary information?
 

Kiltonge

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From Aviation Week, 8th March 1965 page 13

Italian government has attempted to buy a nuclear propulsion system from the U.S.

Presumably the S5W mentioned up-thread but unfortunately no more details given of the request.
 

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Trident

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Seems to confirm the S5W connection, though it was to be a locally modified derivative:


Two were to be built, the second an SSBN! While the latter appears to be a new piece of information, it's fairly logical and unsurprising - consider the ALFA ballistic missile (has its own thread on this forum).

EJ2I4j7W4AAedRO.jpg

EJ2I7obWwAARd2X.jpg

EJ2I59gW4AEMr3E.jpg

EJ2I8GTXkAAx6XR.jpg
 
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TsrJoe

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I recall seeing two coloured elevation drawings of the SSN. (one interval, the other external) on display at the Naval Museum in Venice. I should have some snaps of them in the files 'somewhere', cheers Joe
 

TomS

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Has someone kept a copy or .pdf print-out of this article, mentioned in reply #5 above:
The link is now broken. And I can read Italian, too.
Indeed, Italy was a major player in nuclear technologies in the fifties and sixties (CNRN, Felice Ippolito) but this was largely stymied by US efforts and domestic politics and opposition. Thanks in advance.
Via the Wayback Machine:

 

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