Some news from RID:
- The full displacement was apparently increased (now we are from 14000 to 14500 tons)
- Apparently Leonardo is developing a new X and S band radar based on the experinece of the KRONOS DBR for the PPA's (this new S band radar will not only do early warning and detection, but it will be also able to guide missiles) .
-it is very likely that the ships will be equipped with an unspecified number of A70 NG cells, wich will be able to use the new RJ10 anty ship missile (the anty ship supersonic version of the FC-SW) and the new Aquila hypersonic missiles interceptor.
( no new renders are avaible unfortunatly ; (
Here's the full article
 
A very interesting piece of news.

The Sylver A70 NG has been long-rumored, but this may be the first confirmation that there are serious studies underway for the system. From what RID is describing, it would actually be the first truly universal version of Sylver, firing both Aster SAMs, but also the future Aquila and the missiles that come out of the FC/ASW program.

The radar portion is also interesting. Given what they've achieved in other radar systems this shouldn't be an issue for them, but it is worth noting they haven't really developed any S-band systems for this kind of role before.

They say that the S-band 'will also do missile guidance' in addition to early warning and detection given the 'significant size and power of the antennas'. This is interesting, given that within the architecture of Kronos Dual Band, Kronos Quad did do this already - detection, tracking, engagement, and the uplink to Aster for MCU. An S-band system will require more power, but will have greater long-range performance versus a C-band - although at cost to resolution.

My thoughts are this might be something that is being done with an eye towards the future anti-ballistic and hypersonic interceptor, Aquila, which will operate at longer ranges and altitudes than Aster 30 B1NT. RID does note that these developments are based on experience with the radar systems on the PPA... which makes me wonder if this is most specifically based on experiences in the ballistic missile exercises Raimondo Montecuccoli (P 432) took part in earlier this year at PACIFIC DRAGON 2024.
 
Are you saying that the U.S Navy, should forego their DDG(X) and instead tag onto the Italian DDX. Or should the Italians forego their DDX and instead sign onto the U.S Navies DDG(X) Program. The U.S DDG(X) prpgram seems to be moving at a fast pace and will produce both a destroyer and a Cruiser replacement to succeed both the DDG-51 and CG-47 class. Latest specs for the DDG(X) has it with 4×32 Mk41 modules + large VLS for Hyphersonic weapons and a displacement of 13, 500 + Long Tons.
It would be a total absurdity given that if there are two completely different fleet in all NATO , there are USN and MMI.
The first one is conceived as a totally Blue Water navy and the other as a pluri-decennnal doctrine (called the Mediterraneo Allargato/Enlarged Mediterranean Sea) that purposely avoid any possible involvement into anything that involves oceanic routes.
Also now that our possible intervention zone would go as far as Nigeria (due to huge investment in their oil fields) they would still reach it making a sort of island hopping through all Macaronesia instead of making a single huge turnaround.
The only involvement we had with Trans Atlantic convoy routes was when we tried to sink them in WWII.
So, the operational requirements of the two navies are also completely opposite.
A 57mm Main Gun on a MMI vessel could be conceivable only on less than 50 metric tons displacement patrol boat...
 
FactChecker90803 said:.
The U.S DDG(X) prpgram seems to be moving at a fast pace and will produce both a destroyer and a Cruiser replacement to succeed both the DDG-51 and CG-47 class.

One thing you can say with certainty about the DDG(X) program is that it's not "moving at a fast pace".

In August 2018 Adm. Ron Boxall director of surface warfare (OPNAV N96) told USNI News it would buy the first of its Future Surface Combatants in 2023, now the Navy wants to procure the first DDG(X) in FY2032, though the date for procuring the first ship has been delayed several times before and might again.

What consider to be a relatively fast paced program is when In 2020 Japan announced plans to build 2 Aegis destroyers after it scrapped its two planned Aegis Ashore sites and in Dec 2023 approved construction funding for two 16,000t ASEV destroyers to be commissioned in 2027 and 2028 respectively.
 
FactChecker90803 said:.
The U.S DDG(X) prpgram seems to be moving at a fast pace and will produce both a destroyer and a Cruiser replacement to succeed both the DDG-51 and CG-47 class.

One thing you can say with certainty about the DDG(X) program is that it's not "moving at a fast pace".

In August 2018 Adm. Ron Boxall director of surface warfare (OPNAV N96) told USNI News it would buy the first of its Future Surface Combatants in 2023, now the Navy wants to procure the first DDG(X) in FY2032, though the date for procuring the first ship has been delayed several times before and might again.

What consider to be a relatively fast paced program is when In 2020 Japan announced plans to build 2 Aegis destroyers after it scrapped its two planned Aegis Ashore sites and in Dec 2023 approved construction funding for two 16,000t ASEV destroyers to be commissioned in 2027 and 2028 respectively.
I think it's fair to say by now that USN procurement is "Special".
 
Minor update on the program now that the DPP 2025-27 is out.

Nothing new about about the arrangement of the ship, but compared to the last two years that have been slight decelerations of spending plans over time (though the program was fully funded in the last DPP), outlays ended up accelerating in the new DPP. Outlays in 2025 (we are supposed to get a contract by the end of the year) was upped to €53.3M (vs €40.4M in the last DPP) and outlays in 2026 are now pegged at €164.4M vs the previously projected €62.6M, and €305.8M in 2027. This strongly indicates they expect construction on the lead ship to begin in 2026.

Simultaneously, the expected timeline for spending across the entire €2.7bn program is now projected to stretch to 2036 rather than 2035 (which was the end date in every DPP since 2021), likely reflecting a general year long delay in the program - if they start production on the first ship in 2026 there is no way they will deliver it in 2029 as previously planned. I would expect the lead ship to be delivered in 2030 or 2031, though if the second starts production soon after (rather than with a two year gap) it may still enter service in 2031, or otherwise 2032?
 
Looks like we have some additional news coming from Seafuture 2025 relating to DDX, specifically the air defense system.

The information repeated below was originally reported by Luca Peruzzi in European Defence Review.

In their presentation on Integrated Air & Missile Defense (IAMD), Leonardo reported that they had moved from feasibility and de-risking studies into active development of the new S-band radar system, which is to be an evolution of the Kronos Quad C-band system.

The development of the S-band radar system is associated with the need to counter longer-ranged, more complex threats including air-launched higher velocity ALBMs, Hypersonic missiles (both cruise missiles and glide vehicles) and MRBMs beyond those that can be effectively engaged with the existing systems (which, with the Aster 30 B1NT effector, is designed to deal with TBMs of a velocity that corresponds to ranges of ~1,300 km). The S-band array must handle early warning and tracking of such ballistic and hypersonic targets and integrate with upper layer interceptors such as Aquila or exo-atmospheric interceptors.

Attached is this graphic: 1761854283169.png

I will highlight the destroyer pictured here:
1761854424909.png

While not explicitly stated to be DDX, I think the inclusion is not exactly coincidental, and it does seem close enough to DDX to be worth commenting on. Notably, the former combination of a rotating L-band radar and Kronos Dual Band radar has been replaced by the four large S-band panels and the 'legacy' Kronos Starfire X-band system. It appears that we are still looking at 80x VLS (I assume each rectangle is still two modules across) and 8x canister-launched AShMs, but the 127/64LW seems to have been dropped while design retains 3x 76/62 Super Rapido, though now in the Strales mount rather than the Sovraponte previously featured on renders.

I would tend to associate the removal of the main gun system as being reflective of weight control given the increase in top weight given the change in the radar suite - but I don't want to declare anything too concrete given that this may not exactly be DDX. If it is, though, the substantial alterations in arrangement would explain the schedule slippage.

The article then goes on to address developments in C-UAS systems, both with the new 30mm gun system (the 'X-gun' in the Lionfish 30 RWS) as well as new DEW systems - both a laser weapon system (joint with MBDA) and an HPM system.

1761855968548.png

Leonardo and MBDA have apparently already conducted test fires with a 5 kW laser system for model validation, and are moving for a 100 kW laser for the initial test unit. DDX is intended to be the first unit to receive these systems (I'm not sure if that means the 100 kW type or a future system).

The HPM system (which they call an RF-DEW) is less mature, but identified as a more promising solution than the laser weapon system against drone 'swarms'. They make no comment on when/where it might appear.
 
Last edited:
but the 127/64LW seems to have been dropped while design retains 3x 76/62 Super Rapido,
Apparently the experience of modern warfare - multiple 76-mm to swap attacking drone swarms are much more useful than single 127-mm. And 76-mm still retain enough anti-surface and coastal bombardment capability to be viewed seriously as offense weapon.
 
Wow. 14 000 tons air defense ships and nuclear carrier : what is happening with the italian navy ? bouts of megalomania ? very impressive.
 
Wow. 14 000 tons air defense ships and nuclear carrier : what is happening with the italian navy ? bouts of megalomania ? very impressive.
Just the reasonable progress for historically maritime nation, that wanted to play important role in European common defense system. Italian military shipbuilding is the most capable in Europe. Large, ocean-capable fleet would ensure that Italy would be viewed as one of major players in European military politics.
 
Italian military shipbuilding is the most capable
I wouldn't go as far as saying that, given that France has them firmly beat in that regard. But Italy is a very close second, indeed.

And it is actually surprising that it took Italy so long to expand their naval capabilities. Although, one has to ask the "why" again. The Mediterranean, which is the hometurf of Italy, is more so characterized by illegal immigration rather than anti-ship ballistic missiles and transoceanic ranges that require a top notch blue water Navy. All of the naval powers in the Mediterranean pose no threat to Italy really. So why the sudden need for such capable vessels?
 
Apparently the experience of modern warfare - multiple 76-mm to swap attacking drone swarms are much more useful than single 127-mm. And 76-mm still retain enough anti-surface and coastal bombardment capability to be viewed seriously as offense weapon.

I would say, no and yes.

Yes to the second part because that is certainly true, and with the availability of extended range ammunition like Vulcano you can somewhat make up for the reduced reach of the 76mm (28 km with BER, 40 km with GLR).

The drone threat, however, is not really a driver for the 76mm guns. Although they have gained much accolade for downing UAVs in the Red Sea, destroyers mounting three 76mm guns for CIWS role has been a consistent feature in Italian DDGs since the late 1980s and the design of the Durand de la Penne-class. Furthermore, the Marina Militare's efforts to improve C-UxV capabilities on ships do not center on the 76mm gun systems. Instead, the hardkill system of choice is the 30mm gun system, which is motivating its replacement of the 25mm KBA system and the fitting of three such systems on the DDX. This is being tied into the dedicated C-UxV system they intend to field on ships going forward, which will integrate the EW suite with the X-band radar and DSS-IRST and a new suite of softkill and hardkill capabilities (30mm guns initially, but also DEW/HPM solutions in the future).

I wouldn't go as far as saying that, given that France has them firmly beat in that regard. But Italy is a very close second, indeed.

France is definitely the only full-spectrum builder in Europe, given their ability construction nuclear-powered submarines and aircraft carriers. Though it is interesting to note that the Italy has actually built more warships (including submarines) than France so far this century, whether you count by number or by tonnage.

Wow. 14 000 tons air defense ships and nuclear carrier : what is happening with the italian navy ? bouts of megalomania ? very impressive.
And it is actually surprising that it took Italy so long to expand their naval capabilities. Although, one has to ask the "why" again. The Mediterranean, which is the hometurf of Italy, is more so characterized by illegal immigration rather than anti-ship ballistic missiles and transoceanic ranges that require a top notch blue water Navy. All of the naval powers in the Mediterranean pose no threat to Italy really. So why the sudden need for such capable vessels?

To respond to both of these at once;

The destroyer's capabilities are fairly easy to explain - this size range (12,000 to 15,000 tonnes) simply is the new standard for destroyers of the present. Type 055 is the first of these larger types to enter service, but whether it is DDX (MM), DDG(X) (USN), DDGX (JMSDF), KDDX, and likely even Type 83, you're looking at this larger size. It's simply what is necessary to fit the kind of power and cooling requirements necessary for the modern high-end sensor suites, along with adequate armament.

DDX specifically has certainly grown with time - it started as 'improved Orizzonte' nearer 9,000-10,000 tonnes before turning into a completely separate 11,000-tonne design (at the time it became a program of record) and then growing since then, as requirements for armament and sensor suite have adapted. But then likewise so have likely threats, and even the Horizon/Orizzonte-class were never as heavily armed as the Marina Militare would have liked (setting aside the gun discussion from earlier, it is actually a 64-cell design and both the French and Italian ships remain FFBNW an additional 16 VLS, like their British cousins).

Fundamentally, the MMI has had an outstanding need for a new pair of destroyers. They have always wanted to have six DDGs, and that was why this was their target during the Horizon program. The cutting of that procurement to just two hulls was as bad for them as it was for France. Even if the MMI has been able to cope with this better due to their FREMM all having the medium-range air warfare capability, that was not meant to be a crutch - it was just a result of the general recognition that even ASW escorts needed to have a more credible air defense capability for both themselves and consort defense. Most most of the last decade, the Marina Militare has been forced to make do with two modern DDGs, as while they still had the two Durand de la Penne-class destroyers in service, they were not credible air escorts anymore due to the age of their primary AAW system (SM-1MR).

With regards to the Italian navy's size and capabilities... to a significant degree, this is consistent with the same trend they have always been on since the early Cold War. Though they were not a nuclear navy (though they did try to become one in the 50s-60s), they were by far the largest and most capable of the conventional navies in Europe, with only the USN, RN, and MN exceeding them in overall capability given their access to aircraft carriers with jet aircraft and nuclear-powered submarines. Even in spite of this, the Marina Militare maintained a guided missile escort force that was on par with that of the Marine Nationale during the mid-Cold War, and then fielded an objectively larger and more capable guided missile force from the mid-1980s onwards.

Which, to be clear, is not to ascribe a general superiority to the MN in any regard - the MN had a vastly greater carrier force, a larger attack submarine force, the entire nuclear deterrence mission, etc - but at the same time it is also very much the case that while the Marina Militare was not as capable as the 'nuclear' navies of NATO, it was also far and away batting over the heads of every other navy in NATO besides.

In that era, there was very much the need to maintain a capable naval force - the Soviet 5th Squadron was a constant presence in the region and many of the MENA states were less than friendly and at times had notable air and missile forces. Likewise, the threat of Soviet bombers flying from the USSR was a huge threat.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Mediterranean still had considerable issues with instability, but also geopolitical demands drew the Marina Militare further afield to regions that, while not within the Mediterranean, still greatly impacted the Mediterranean itself - hence intervention missions in Somalia, supporting NATO forces in Afghanistan (which involved the deployment of an Italian Carrier Strike Group), and counter-piracy missions in both the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.

The 2010s brought the vector of nation-state threats back in force, due in large part to the instability brough on by the Arab Spring of 2011 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014. The new tensions with Russia, the civil wars in Libya and Syria, and the now constant presence of Russian ships since 2013 created a new threat environment that blended the - by this point traditional - concerns of the migration crisis with those of real military concern. Russian surface ships and their activity had to be monitored, and the same went for their often considerable submarine deployments. These were made complicated by the steady growth and modernization of submarine fleets by other nations in this period - an array of not just Russian models (Kilo's operated by the Russians and Algerians) but also German models from the growing and modernizing fleets of Egypt, Israel, Greece, and Turkey (even if the latter are NATO members, this still creates complications for deconfliction). The same also went for the air threat picture, again from both increased Russian presence but also the modernization of MENA air forces with modern aircraft and improved munitions.

And to be clear, that threat picture absolutely includes anti-ship ballistic missiles and other such complex threats. The Russians made a point of bringing MiG-31K's armed with the Kh-47MW Kinzhal (air-launched ballistic missile) down to the Mediterranean as a 'counter' to NATO carrier deployments in the Eastern Mediterranean, and have likewise have conducted live-firings with the Tsirkon HCM from frigates deployed in the region. That is a missile type that that can be fielded on their modern SSGNs (Yasen-M's) that occasionally also show up in the region.

Beyond that, the MMI still has requirements to operate in extra-Mediterranean theaters, because events that occur beyond the Suez and Gibraltar do impact the Mediterranean quite significantly.

It is not for nothing that France, Italy, and Greece have continued to allocate ships to defend shipping from ballistic missile, cruise missile, and UxV attack. Every other European member bailed on deploying ships to the mission (whether Prosperity Guardian or Aspides) after the summer of 2024. The Marina Militare has also been deployed in Northern Europe to cover for gaps in capabilities of NATO allies in regions like the Baltics (in particular, simultaneously with the Red Sea mission they were also rotating destroyers and frigates through the Baltic to bolster Polish coastal air defenses).

Similarly, Italy's international engagements have drawn it further afield, in the Indo-Pacific. Italy has many important economic and defense partners in the region that it engages with, and the stability of the region is quite impactful on the Italian economy. It also provides many opportunities for Italian naval forces to exercise at a scale that is simply not possible around European waters, particularly when it comes to live-fire air and missile engagements. Thus, deploying CSGs (now a coordinated effort with the RN and MN) or surface combatants to the region has the dual effect of both engagement within the region, but also increasing the effectiveness of Italian naval forces when they're in the European and Mediterranean regions.
 
Thank you for the exquisitely detailed answer. Very interesting. I would say that, indeed, the nuclear deterrent plus nuclear attack subs plus carrier weight a lot on MN budget. Plus three Mistral large amphibs.

That's why I think France won't be able to afford those brand new 14000 tons air-defense cruisers : only a limited number of FREMM / Horizon / FDI / whatever.

Thinking about it, putting F-35Bs on two huge amphibious ships is an interesting alternative to just one carrier with Rafales on the deck. Much closer in capability from CdG than Garibaldi with AV-8Bs. Still, MM is right wanting a full blown carrier, nuclear propulsion included. Let's see how will they be able to afford that long term, without screwing the rest of their fleet.

Overall, France has a much larger, nuclear submarine fleet plus more big decks (CdG plus three Mistral vs nothing plus two big amphibs.).
 
Last edited:
France isn't the only SSN/SSBN/CV builder in Europe.

That was poor phrasing on my part - I was intended to include aircraft carriers under the banner of nuclear powered platforms. Certainly, there is also the UK that has a long history of building nuclear powered submarines and conventionally powered aircraft carriers.

Thank you for the exquisitely detailed answer. Very interesting. I would say that, indeed, the nuclear deterrent plus nuclear attack subs plus carrier weight a lot on MN budget. Plus three Mistral large amphibs.

Indeed. The French surface escort fleet remains squeezed between the nuclear deterrent mission (which does fairly directly include the aircraft carriers) and, though often less remarked on, the large patrol fleet necessary for its EEZ and far-flung territories.

That's why I think France won't be able to afford those brand new 14000 tons air-defense cruisers : only a limited number of FREMM / Horizon / FDI / whatever.

Not in the short term, at the very least. Though it is good to see that the five FDI will be up-armed (or delivered fully armed for the last pair) within the current LPM.

I know there has been discussion of considering an additional three ships in the next LPM (2030-37), and I am curious if the calculus will change by that point. The Horizon's will need to be replaced by the end of 2030s, and so the development of whatever vessel does replace them will have to start within that LPM. Something larger than the FDI will be required as a dedicated air defense ship, and ideally more than two ships will be procured at that point.

Thinking about it, putting F-35Bs on two huge amphibious ships is an interesting alternative to just one carrier with Rafales on the deck. Much closer in capability from CdG than Garibaldi with AV-8Bs. Still, MM is right wanting a full blown carrier, nuclear propulsion included. Let's see how will they be able to afford that long term, without screwing the rest of their fleet.

Overall, France has a much larger, nuclear submarine fleet plus more big decks (CdG plus three Mistral vs nothing plus two big amphibs.).

The present force structure is more about ensuring the constant availability of the carrier strike capability, in some capacity. Cavour will remain the primary carrier until she is replaced around 2040 - Trieste is only supposed to fill in the carrier role when Cavour is unavailable for maintenance. Though with the larger number of F-35B's now being acquired (20 each for the MM and AM), it is more viable that both ships could carry F-35B's in a crisis.

But, certainly a much more credible capability now with F-35B's, especially considering the stand-off strike munitions the Marina Militare plans to acquire for them (such as the JSM). The best the AV-8B+ ever had was the AGM-65E Maverick.

I think much remains to be seen about the kind of aircraft carrier the Marina Militare intends to procure to replace Cavour. It is certainly possible that they go all the way and seek to obtain a CATOBAR CVN with PWR reactors, like those of the MN and USN. That would be a quantum leap in capability but also very expensive. It would also require a foreign fighter solution, which would probably come down to whatever is chosen for F/A-XX in the US or the future French naval fighter (whether that is the present NGF concept or something independent of the FCAS/SCAF program). In that scenario, the navy's F-35B's could be reserved for Trieste or given over to the air force.

With that said, I am not convinced that is the direction the Marina Militare is going, as they are closely watching efforts to introduce UCAVs on existing carrier designs and their current nuclear power is not focused on traditional PWR's, but rather LFR SMR's. We may instead be looking at an STOVL carrier with a short EMALS system for launching lighter UCAVs for various missions - AEW, refueling, unmanned wingmen, etc.

Regardless - to be clear, if we are comparing force structures - for Italy, it is not a case of two amphibious ships. It is certainly true that Cavour can operate as an LHA, but she is primarily a carrier. What you're looking at is a CVL, an hybrid LHD, and three LPDs (at present the small 8,000-tonne Santi, but to be replaced by a trio of 16,500-tonne LPDs in the early 2030s).
 
I find it funny that in an interview FMM talked about europe having more unified ship design given the tender for DDX came yesterday. Would be interresting if F127 and DDX could use the same hull in a fashion similiar too FREMM
 
Oh, this is a cursed comment in hindsight...

At this point, I'm just going to be waiting to see if Marinette Marine requests any of the archival data Fincantieri holds from Ansaldo and CRDA on Froude tank trials for 35,000-ton hulls...

I find it funny that in an interview FMM talked about europe having more unified ship design given the tender for DDX came yesterday. Would be interresting if F127 and DDX could use the same hull in a fashion similiar too FREMM

Both those programs are too far along (especially DDX) and of different dimensions, so it seems unlikely to me they would be brought into alignment at this stage.

Though with that said, if this is the article you were referring to: https://www.ft.com/content/6e1d1c92-0faf-4ea9-b185-b87da6d7bf44

That is not exactly what Folgiero was getting at. Rather than unifying designs themselves, this is aimed at creating common standards for certain basic requirements - somewhat akin to NATO STANAG, but taking things a step further. A lot of this comes out more in the detailed stages of design rather than the broad strikes, with things like making sure everyone has common requirements around, say, specifications around how much redundancy there is in piping or cabling, the qualities of those used, etc. Lower value-added material than major items like sensors or weapon systems, but important for a shipbuilder if they have to deal with a multitude of customers with varying requirements.
 
RID 02/2026 is out now and has a special 16-page article on Italian Navy programs by Michele Cosentino ('Marina Militare, programmi e futuro'), with some notable updates and new renders for the DDX.

The article reports DDX is presently just over 179 meters in length. Somewhat confusingly, the article reports full load displacement at 13,500 tonnes, but then also includes an editor's note that it could reach nearly 15,000 tonnes.


DDX 02-26 Render 1.png

Edit: Correction on propulsion type:

I originally wrote that the propulsion system seems to have been simplified, but that is incorrect. It should still reflect the CODOGAL arrangement (as seen on the PPA), albeit now operating with more powerful diesel-alternators and electric motors than were described back in 2024.

In the quote box is a description of the propulsion system as of January 2024:

The propulsion system is a described as “CODOGAL” or ‘Combined Diesel Or Gas And eLectric.”

The two shafts can be driven either by electric motor (1.6 MW each), direct diesel drive (10 MW each), or gas turbine (32 MW each). The specific models to be used have not yet been chosen, but the basic principle is that electric motors will be used when there is a need to run quiet or at very low speeds, diesels for cruising (with a range of about 6,000 nmi at their maximum speed of 18 knots), and gas turbines for high speeds (30 knots). When the diesel or gas turbines are engaged, the electric motors act as generators to generate power, but there will also be four 2.7 MW diesels for a general base load (of 10.8 MW).

In the 2026 description, there are still two gas turbines mechanically connected to the propulsion shafts (though apparently a choice between the MT30 and LM2500+G4 is still to be made), along with two diesels (type is not described). The article reports an initial intend to use four 4 MW medium-speed diesel alternator groups (though apparently an alternative arrangement of six fast diesel alternator groups is also under consideration), which would provide a 'base' load of 16 MW. The design features two 3 MW electric motors on the shafts which, as on the FREMM-IT, are reversable and can be used to generate power when the gas turbines are in use. Overall, a 48% in power from the diesel-alternator groups and an 87.5% increase in the power of the electric motors. The DDX will use a direct current subgrid with the integration of a 'robust' Energy Storage System (ESS), in order to power equipment with high absorption peaks (radars, electronic attack systems, directed energy weapons).

RID confirms that the 127/64LW is no longer present on the design, and the three 76/62 mounts are now the 'normal' Davide/Strales mounts, rather than lightweight Sovraponte. The VLS count remains at 80 cells, though the allocations have flipped so there are now 32 cells forward and 48 cells amidships (for the first time since the 2022 renders, when the ships still had 64 VLS. It is interesting to note - and I may be reading too far into this - that RID no longer describes the type of VLS (whether A50 or A70) and instead only refers to '80 cells dedicated to air-missile defense and deep strike' (in totale di 80 celle dedicate all'IAMD e al deep strike). The deck-mounted missile armament remains at eight Teseo Mk.2/E.

Though the article does not address them in text, it is interesting to note that the render appears to show one 30mm Lionfish forward and two on the starboard side (one abreast the fore funnel, one on the edge of the helicopter hangar), which seems to indicate that there are four or possibly even five 30mm mounts in total.

The render also displays the new sensor suite, including the new large S-band member of the Kronos family. Though not discussed in this article, it is worth noting from other reporting that this radar (a GaN AESA) performs element-level beamforming, like the Kronos Power Shield (the L-band array previously featured on the design) - whereas the prior Kronos Quad (C-band) did sub-array beamforming. The Kronos Starfire arrays (X-band, GaAs) are positioned high up on the integrated foremast, along with the ESM arrays. I have not spotted the electronic attack arrays, but they are likely the new conformal models distributed around the ship (as on the FREMM-EVO).

Finally, RID reports that Leonardo is working on a new version of SADOC, possibly named SADOC 5, which will bring yet greater resiliency to cyber threats and making increasing use of AI.

DDX 02-26 Render 2.png


Note: Two edits made here (1 February 2026):

  1. I accidentally wrote that the design had '64 cells amidships', but this was an error - it is 48 amidships, hence the total of 80 VLS.
  2. I made an assumption on a change in the type of propulsion system, probably because I was fixating on the description of the diesel-alternator sets. The article states there are still two direct drive diesels along with the gas turbines, so it seems safe to say the CODOGAL propulsion arrangement remains.
 
Last edited:
RID confirms that the 127/64LW is no longer present on the design, and the three 76/62 mounts are now the 'normal' Davide/Strales mounts, rather than lightweight Sovraponte.
Apparently the lessons of Red Sea persuaded Italians that their deviation from traditional 3-inch armament was a mistake.
 
The advantage of the Sovraponte is that a 3" gun is the same weight as a Phalanx CIWS mount.
Agree completely. But apparently Italian navy decided that magazine capacity is mkre important for destroyer. Sovraponte have major disadvantage - after shooting all its ammo, it must be reloaded manually.
 
Agree completely. But apparently Italian navy decided that magazine capacity is mkre important for destroyer. Sovraponte have major disadvantage - after shooting all its ammo, it must be reloaded manually.
Same problem as RAM or Phalanx, though.
 
Same problem as RAM or Phalanx, though.
76-mm ammo is a bit harder to move around, though. Anyway, my point was that Italian traditional concept of multiple 3-inch guns as main battery demonstrated itself better suited to modern warfare than usual "one 5-inch guh" concept of other navies.
 
76-mm ammo is a bit harder to move around, though. Anyway, my point was that Italian traditional concept of multiple 3-inch guns as main battery demonstrated itself better suited to modern warfare than usual "one 5-inch guh" concept of other navies.
Ah, gotcha.
 
Apparently the lessons of Red Sea persuaded Italians that their deviation from traditional 3-inch armament was a mistake.
To be fair, this isn't a GP ship - in Italian case it will replace Horizonte with a same concept.
MM isn't short on bombardment units in any case.

p.s. tbh, it seems that Italians again just got DDGX right at a desired size. Mediterranean or not, it's a bit damning.
 
To be fair, this isn't a GP ship - in Italian case it will replace Horizonte with a same concept.
MM isn't short on bombardment units in any case.

p.s. tbh, it seems that Italians again just got DDGX right at a desired size. Mediterranean or not, it's a bit damning.
"Muh survivability standards."

Forgetting that the USN is right now doing the ultimate survivability trick: Not building any new surface combatants at all. After all, if you have no ships, nobody can sink them!
 
Apparently the lessons of Red Sea persuaded Italians that their deviation from traditional 3-inch armament was a mistake.

Deviation? If anything the gun system has proliferated even more aggressively than during the Cold War - in the prior generation of frigates you'd never have seen it on the same platform as a 127mm gun - now there are no Italian 127mm ships that don't also carry a 76mm.
Agree completely. But apparently Italian navy decided that magazine capacity is mkre important for destroyer. Sovraponte have major disadvantage - after shooting all its ammo, it must be reloaded manually.

That depends on the specific arrangement. It is certainly possible to have Sovraponte as a completely stand-alone mount with only manual reloading, but it is also still possible to have it fed directly from the magazines.

By way of example - on the PPA, there is hoist abreast the hangar that brings shells up from the aft gun magazine to the deck immediately below the 76mm gun, with a horizontal track that then brings them over to a hoist immediately below the gun system, allowing its reloading from below-deck. Given their placement I imagine something similar was planned for the DDX.

I would assume that, while still being lighter than traditional mounts, the actual replenishment rate of the fans by this method is still much slower than is possible for the traditional below-deck 85-rounds ready rack on the 'normal' SR or Strales mounts.
 
It is certainly possible to have Sovraponte as a completely stand-alone mount with only manual reloading, but it is also still possible to have it fed directly from the magazines.
Hm! Didn't know that! I thought, it was specifically designed to be non-penetrating and thus did not have direct magazine access!
 
Deviation? If anything the gun system has proliferated even more aggressively than during the Cold War - in the prior generation of frigates you'd never have seen it on the same platform as a 127mm gun - now there are no Italian 127mm ships that don't also carry a 76mm.
That's because the Italians see the 76mm as the equivalent of the Phalanx CIWS.
 
That's because the Italians see the 76mm as the equivalent of the Phalanx CIWS.
I wonder how much Lionfish rcws adds to the role. It isn't primary goalkeeper asset(and not like it has RPM for certainties), but it has a declared AA/ciws capability.

Plus, as other similar guns, it should be highly accurate even at full RoF.
 
I wonder how much Lionfish rcws adds to the role. It isn't primary goalkeeper asset(and not like it has RPM for certainties), but it has a declared AA/ciws capability.

Plus, as other similar guns, it should be highly accurate even at full RoF.
I mean, it's a 12.7mm MG on a remote mount. Any mount FCS adopted from ground forces would be as AA capable as a hand-swung .50cal.
 
That's because the Italians see the 76mm as the equivalent of the Phalanx CIWS.

I'm well aware. Though perhaps it is more accurate to say it succeeded the 40mm DARDO in the role of CIWS of choice for the Marina Militare. It actually replaced them 1:1 on the design of the Durand de la Penne-class DDGs, which in its original configuration would have mounted 3x2 40mm DARDO.

I wonder how much Lionfish rcws adds to the role. It isn't primary goalkeeper asset(and not like it has RPM for certainties), but it has a declared AA/ciws capability.

Plus, as other similar guns, it should be highly accurate even at full RoF.

The Lionfish mounts (which are 30mm, not 12.7mm) are there as part of the C-UxV system, and replace the older 25mm KBA mounts (both manned and RWS) that existed on previous generations of Italian surface combatants. It is primarily there for defeating low-cost OWA (One-Way-Attack) UAS and loitering munitions in combination with the electronic warfare system, which is expected to be the most common threat - but also kamikaze USV's.

Which is not a rejection of the 76mm or 127mm as an anti-air weapon, so much as it frees them up to focus on other types of targets (particularly a concern in complex attacks) or range bands at further distances, while these systems can deal with these comparatively simple targets with extremely low costs. They do not serve an anti-missile function, as their rate of fire is far too low for that (200 rpm).

1770331087978.png
 
This impacts more than just the DDX program, but in the absence of any one single thread of Aster-rlated naval developments, I figured this thread was probably the best place to introduce it.

The Senate dossier for the multiyear program for procurement & realization for national missile & air defense (i.e. the grand umbrella under which all Aster related things are currently being organized in Italian defense programs) came out recently, and there are some interesting things popping up here beyond the already known acquisition programs for SAMP/T NG and integration of CAMM-ER into the system.



Aster 30 Block 0 it seems is a purely past-tense item, as the dossier now solely refers to MLU activities and procurement of new missiles for Aster 15, Aster 30 Block 1, and Aster 30 Block 1NT for the armed services.

It also refers to the modernization of the Navy Aster 15 and Aster 30 Block 1's, in addition to acquiring conversion kits for the "Enhanced Capabilities" versions of these missiles - a clear reference to Aster 15 EC at the very least, though I am also curious if this indicates some of the same modifications will be added to an updated version of the Aster 30 Block 1.

It also includes another ten years of logistics support, maintenance and upkeep for Aster missiles - Aster 15, Aster 30 Block 1, and Aster 30 Block 1NT.

---

Bearing that in mind, this seems to indicate that the Marina Militare is upgrading its Aster 30 Block 0 stockpiles to the Aster 30 Block 1 standard as part of their MLU activity, similar to what is presently being executed by the British under a contract modification to their Aster 30 MLU program. So this interceptor would be fielded across all Aster 30 capable ships (i.e. all FREMM, PPA, and DDGs).

This also seems to confirm a second future user of the Aster 15 EC beyond the Marine Nationale, which planned to introduce it into service around 2030 - first integrated onto Horizon-class destroyers Forbin and Chevalier Paul in their MLU (2028-2030), and Charles de Gaulle during her MLU. Presumably the first Italian ships that might have Aster 15 EC integrated might be their own Horizon-class destroyers Andrea Doria and Caio Duilio, during their own MLU program (2026-28) - though these come slightly earlier than their French siblings, and as such this might depend on whether Aster 15 EC is ready in time.

Either way, interesting implications. I don't know if we should expect the Marine Nationale to actually go through a similar process with Aster 30 Block 0 -> Block 1, if only because picture evidence suggests that they already switched to procuring Aster 30 Block 1 over Block 0's when they bought a second batch of 48 missiles for Alsace and Lorraine, and as such may have only ever had the 80x Aster 30 originally ordered for Forbin and Chevalier Paul back the 2000s. And who knows how much of that stockpile is left between exercises and operational expeditures?
 
Notice for the tender for the DDX contract has been released, with the actual tender expected to go out in February 2026.


Further indications that we're close to getting contracts for DDX:


Focusing on short-term naval “must-have” opportunities, Folgiero underlined that the company expects orders for around 5 billion Euro in the next six months in the defence segment. “Starting from the Italian Navy, orders are expected for two DDX (or DDG NG) next generation destroyers, alongside the EPC (or Multi-Mission Patrol Corvette, MMPC) Call 2, and the third Vulcano-class logistic support vessel.”

Edit: In addition, the previously linked tender is now out (18 February):

 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom