Iranian WIG : Bavar-2

[turbi]

all the web is buzzing since yesterday about this russian-like looking WIG tiny hydravion... anyone can get more?


link - google search


it is so reminiscent of the ESKA-1 by russia's CLST...

link

Mod edit: Fixed links.

 

[Matej]

Its not just the ordinary hydroptere! Remember, with all its angles and the engine on the pylon above the fuselage, its "stealth flying boat" I love the propaganda!

 

[Mike Pryce]

Footage from BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11432319

 

[AeroFranz]

Dear God (shakes his head).

One of the articles on the web page of "La Repubblica", one of Italy's main newspapers, claims that Iran invented the Ekranoplan. how many seconds of googling does it take to verify the facts? I though fact-checking 101 was mandatory at all journalism schools.

 

[Silencer1]

Hi!

This Iranian machine looks like ...development... of Soviet-build WIG ESKA-1 (1973)
http://www.ekranoplan.flybb.ru/topic126.html
The later has had large publicity that days.

Cheers!

 

[sublight]

There has been about 10 bazillion surface effect water skimmers in popular science over the last four decades that look just like it....

The eska 1
http://www.se-technology.com/wig/html/main.php?open=showcraft&code=&craft=33

 

[Orionblamblam]

On the one hand, it's nice to see WIGs like this in production. They'd make dandy civilian planes. On the other hand, they'd make dandy targets for a 20MM CIWS, or even a Marine with a shotgun. So the military angle seems pretty dubious.

Perhaps Iran could offer these to the worldwide civilian market. They might be able to rake in a bundle of cash *legitimately.*

 

[flanker]

Ehh, are you all sure this is an ekranoplan? To me it seems just like an ordinary low flying aircraft.

 

[RanulfC]

The type is officially called the Lippisch Ram-Wing WIG:
http://www.se-technology.com/wig/html/main.php?open=concept&code=0

and as the name denotes it was concieved and developed by Dr. Alexander Lippisch while at Iowa State University. The concept attracted interest from the West German government, enough to finance a couple of prototypes the X-113 single-place test vehicle and the X-114 enclosed cabin, 7 person design. The inverted delta-wing and negative leading edge dihedral were found to be more stable in both WIG and Free-Flight than standard straight wing designs such as the Ekranoplan. (The Russian ESKA-1 was actually a test article "copied" off the X-114 design)

The Bavar-2 is in itself a "copy" of the down-scaled recreational vehicles spun off from the work done on the X-113/114 by Mr. Hanno Fischer who worked for Rhein Flugzeugbau GmbH on the original designs. He then created two companies, Fischer Flugmechanik which developed the Airfisch design, and Airfoil Development GmbH (AFD) which is focused on commercial development and sales. (I understand that both are no longer in operation though, the Airfisch-3 was offered for sale and at least one company in the United States developed an offshoot vehicle from that vehicle which was the "Flarecraft" single person recreational vehicle)

X-114 article here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=hAEAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=Lippisch+type+ram+wing+vehicle&source=bl&ots=0ueMKDOjqz&sig=C2KQMK-wX7o9ZOmSiOtOFFpm9vI&hl=en&ei=hVajTICIDImcsQOdmtH6Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAg#

Overall WIG technology and review information here:
http://www.se-technology.com/wig/index.php

It should probably be noted that the main idea behind the 'stealth' aspect of the WIG is that the vehicle is small and fast similar to a power boat and flying near the surface of the water tends to make it more difficult for radar to distingush between the vehicle and the background scatter from the surface of the water itself. This is negated by any radar system with velocity distingushing software since the speed of the WIG seperates it clearly from the background. The other 'stealth' aspect is that most vehicles of this size are made from materials that are not readily picked up by radar (such as fiberglass) making them more difficult to detect.

The Bavar-2 vehicle is REALLY small and probably wouldn't be able to carry much more than a machine gun if that the engine size and planform of that size WIG are very sensitive to mass and balance issues. (The gun would have to be mounted above the pilot's head and in any case firing over his head)

Short of packing it full of explosives and emulating the suicide-power-boat tactics the vehicle hasn't much offensive potential at all. If they make a bigger model with a more powerful engine then it would be more 'worrying' I suppose...

Randy

 

[Firefly 2]

I suppose that a squadron of these might distract defensive weapon systems by cluttering them and so offer a real threat a chance to strike. Other than that and patrolling, I don't see the point.

 

[blackstar]

http://io9.com/5654389/irans-flying-boat-squadron-is-right-out-of-a-james-bond-film

Apparently the engine exhaust vents into the cockpit...

 

[Avimimus]

Could keep one warmer?

It certainly makes the patrol variant of the Strizh 5 (PE-201?) look impressive.
I suppose the Iranian model is much cheaper though?

 

[joncarrfarrelly]

I suppose that a squadron of these might distract defensive weapon systems by cluttering them and so offer a real threat a chance to strike. Other than that and patrolling, I don't see the point.

Perhaps a shiny toy to keep the Revolutionary Guards happy and distracted while the 'real' military get on with business?

 

[Jemiba]

"Perhaps a shiny toy to keep the Revolutionary Guards "
I wouldn't regard them as more as training vehicles, for getting crews used to this
kind of aircraft. WIGs, somewhat larger than those, to my opinion could be useful
in asymmetric warfare. Cheap and easy to built in large numbers, armed perhaps with
such a single weapon and manned by crews, who don't care about getting home, they
could fly out further, than the range of power boats, lie on the sea surface (relatively
stealthy then) and pop up and attack unexpected. At least, this could be a theoretical
tactic behind their construction. If they could really take off from any other than the
calmest sea, I don't know, but that's a matter of testing and perhaps training.

 

[Firefly 2]

"Perhaps a shiny toy to keep the Revolutionary Guards "
I wouldn't regard them as more as training vehicles, for getting crews used to this
kind of aircraft. WIGs, somewhat larger than those, to my opinion could be useful
in asymmetric warfare. Cheap and easy to built in large numbers, armed perhaps with
such a single weapon and manned by crews, who don't care about getting home, they
could fly out further, than the range of power boats, lie on the sea surface (relatively
stealthy then) and pop up and attack unexpected. At least, this could be a theoretical
tactic behind their construction. If they could really take off from any other than the
calmest sea, I don't know, but that's a matter of testing and perhaps training.

One might argue that a larger and more powerful design might carry a significant offensive weaponload. The USSR surely did research this in the Lun-class ekranoplan:

But this would be a considerably different beast, as it would need guidance systems for, say, Noor missiles or C 701's. One might argue that unguided weapons might be an option, as numerous of their smaller boats carry 107mm unguided projectiles... But still, it would be an exercise of a higher technological order.

 

[Jemiba]

The Lun, of course, is the other extreme, a kind of flying missile corvette.
I wasn't thinking of something much larger, than the Lippisch X-114, which
maybe would have a usable weapons load of about 300 to 350 kg. Enough
for single missile in the class of the Maverick and if fitted with IR-guidance
there wouldn't be the need for a lot of systems on board of the aircraft.
Not to be misunderstood, I'm just trying to make sense of those WIGs, that
quite probably weren't built just for joy riding.

 

[Wembley]

Just a thought bearing in mind the users - how effective would these be as kamikaze planes with a few hundred kilos of HE and just enough fuel for a one-way trip?

Individually pretty useless, but perhaps enough of them could saturate, especially with some basic countermeasures to confuse the defenders.

 

[RanulfC]

Not to be misunderstood, I'm just trying to make sense of those WIGs, that
quite probably weren't built just for joy riding.

Keep trying, it's gotta make sense someday!

A couple of strap-on RPGs maybe or light-rocket launchers might be possible. Though the MOST likely "offensive" aspect of the vehicles would HAVE to be similar to the earlier "speed-boats" used by the Guard. Fast, small, thin-skinned, and expendable distraction vehicles to cover larger craft with the added possibility of packing explosives on-board for "guided-weapon" attacks by mass assault.

Iran seems to be grabbing any chance to build up the image that they are a regional 'power' now that Iraq is out of the picture. But the claiming of advanced capability, out of context use of technology "buzz-words" and other propaganda gestures doesn't seem to have anyone taking them more seriously. But perhaps that in itself might be the 'point'?
Or it all could be just direct at domestic consumption. At this point it's really not that clear if Iran is simply posturing or they really do believe that they are taking huge technological leaps into the future.

Randy

 

[Avimimus]

Jemiba,

Perhaps you're thinking of this?:
http://militaryforces.ru/weapon-2-29-179.html

The Strizh-5S seems to be a further development of the Strizh-3 for a training role (and has since been offered as a patrol / light combat ship). I have a pamphlet somewhere on it.

Sincerely,

 

[Jemiba]

"Perhaps you're thinking of this?:"

Well, yes, although maybe the Strizh-5 already is a little bit larger and advanced, than
needed. Iran is not only trying to become the biggest regional power, but THE islamic
power. And supporting co-religionists probably is on the iranian agenda, too. And for that
purpose, quite primitive weapons often could be sufficient. Just think of Somalian pirates
equipped with such vessels.

 

[Firefly 2]

"Perhaps you're thinking of this?:"

Well, yes, although maybe the Strizh-5 already is a little bit larger and advanced, than
needed. Iran is not only trying to become the biggest regional power, but THE islamic
power. And supporting co-religionists probably is on the iranian agenda, too. And for that
purpose, quite primitive weapons often could be sufficient. Just think of Somalian pirates
equipped with such vessels.

The Somali pirates are not necessarily linked to the Islamic Courts. As I understand it the Islamic Courts have been trying to smoke out the "pirate towns " in the region. It is possible that they could take over the piracy franchise themselves, but that would refute the " ultimate morality" they supposedly represent.

The Strizh-5 is more or less what I had in mind when I was talking about scaling up.

Iran is developping ways to deny access to the Ormus strait, and does it with a vengeance and the means used will be a one way ticket for a lot of operators when used in anger against a modern naval force. The problem is that, given the modern aversion of human losses in the West, that strategy has a fair chance to succeed... Thus creating immense political fallout and opposition to any further military operation in the area. It is my opinion that Western or allied navies ( South Korea excepted) have yet to come up with the equipment and tactics to effectively operate in an asymmetric naval environment.

 

[RanulfC]

Just think of Somalian pirates equipped with such vessels.

That would not help them much. Their operations depend on boarding larger vessels, hopefully before the crews can lock themselves away in the engine room. (Once a crew is secure in the engine room the pirates can't do all that much other than plunder the crew quarters and open spaces) I don't see how a WIG is going to help there, especially a small one. (A larger one might reduce crew reaction time a lot)

On the other hand I can see something like this in operations AGAINST the pirates as they would be faster, more manueverable and could engage the pirates short of the protected vessel. I'd want something a little bit bigger and able to be better armed and armored though.

Randy

 

[AeroFranz]

as a side note: there has been a lot of talk about novel shipborne weapons coming online, supposedly to combat this type of swarming threat. I've heard that small missiles such as the new Thales LMM were being considered for this role, and of course, lasers could be pretty useful. Deep magazine, no weight limitation on power generation on a boat, and we are not talking about huge firing range. I'm still not sure what the advantage over a Phalanx would be, though ???

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Removed semi-offtopic and wholly controversial discussion on whether nuclear weapons are an effective counter to these type of aircraft.

 

[Stargazer]

Sorry in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere. I came across this strange amphibian in a page about Iranian aircraft and helicopters, and wondered what it could be. I don't think I've seen it anywhere else before. A foreign type? A local production? Thanks for your help, everyone!

 

[Jemiba]

It seems, the Bavar 2 has got an enclosed canopy ? Or is there no canopy at
all and not even the small windscreen any more, we've seen on the first photos
of this thread ?
(Photo from http://www.defence-update.net/wordpress/tag/bavar)
BTW, the site mentiones the purpose for this craft: recce and target acquisition,
although I cannot see very much of the mentioned "maritime surveillance equipment",
besides the pilots Mk.1 eyeball.

 

[Stargazer]

It's such a beautiful and innovative design that I strongly have doubts that it could have been designed locally. Perhaps some help from Russia or Ukraine?

 

[Jemiba]

From the inserted link:
"..In fact, Bavar-2 traces back to the Russian Eska-1 an early WIG planes
designed in the 1970s."

 

[kcran567]

not a military usage, but a "coast guard" or patrol like wig aircraft. The propaganda machine is rolling saying this has any military application.

Maybe they are trainers for a large LUN type aircraft that is heavily armed and capable.

 

[kcran567]

Removed semi-offtopic and wholly controversial discussion on whether nuclear weapons are an effective counter to these type of aircraft.

I think only the largest yield nuclear weapons are suitable to counter this threat. Perhaps those space dropped depleted uranium "Rods from God" are effective too?

 

[Stargazer]

Found two hi-res pics of the Bavar-2 on the Technobabble website. One was already presented in smaller size on page 1, the other one I believe is new to this thread.

And here is the article that went along with it:

Iran invents stealth flying boats (probably)
By Ben Hurst on Sep 28, 10 02:44 PM

Is this the coolest war gear technological leap forward of the year?

And it's not even been invented by America.

No, the latest hardware to send a chill through the hearts of military planners comes from that forward thinking Middle East country Iran!

It's a stealth boat! Which flies!!!

Called Bavar-2, or Confidence-2, it is a radar-evading flying boat.

Iran's state TV says the country's powerful Revolutionary Guard has received its first three squadrons of the things.

Coming to an estuary, canal or other waterway near you (depending on progress of world wide revolution against decadent west).

Just to add a slight disclaimer in the incredibly unlikely event that this proves to be, in fact, a load of codswallop, the AP pictures do come with the rider: "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS HAS NO WAY OF INDEPENDENTLY VERIFYING THE CONTENT, LOCATION OR DATE OF THIS IMAGE" (not my caps)

Source: http://blogs.birminghammail.net/technobabble/2010/09/iran-invents-stealth-flying-bo-1.html

 

[dannydale]

I don't see why radar can't get a good return off the engine blocks on these things, nap of the earth flying or not. What's the RCS of your average Rotax engine again? Also, if they can carry weapons, I doubt they'll be able to carry more than one torp or AShM a piece if they can carry anything that big at all. The boats look like they're for scouting, antipiracy, and maritime COIN ops anyway: hardly any kind of Uberstealth Wunderwaffe craft, in my book. Just a little bit of cool-airplane-bro on one side and a whole hell of a cubic buttload of breathless media sensationalism on the other.

 

[Antonio]

Look at the second pic is hard to believe that this is a mighty stealty warmachine. Look more like children toys to me. :-[

 

[SOC]

is hard to believe that this is a mighty stealty warmachine.

Of course it is. In the same manner that a twin-tailed F-5 is an advanced fighter aircraft, or a truck with oil drums is an S-300P series TEL.

;D