Interceptors for Ireland

The senators court case continues, with new details as to what “maybe” in the “secret” deal with the U.K. The funniest thing is the various governments have walked themselves into this, they could have just come out back when it started, or even post 9/11 and got away with it. Interesting to see if this goes all the way through the courts.
https://www.thejournal.ie/new-affid...ut-raf-use-of-irish-airspace-7077898-Jun2026/
 
sparky42 said:
The senators court case continues, with new details as to what “maybe” in the “secret” deal with the U.K. The funniest thing is the various governments have walked themselves into this, they could have just come out back when it started, or even post 9/11 and got away with it. Interesting to see if this goes all the way through the courts.
https://www.thejournal.ie/new-affid...ut-raf-use-of-irish-airspace-7077898-Jun2026/
Click to expand...
The Irish governments love of having to be dragged kicking and screaming to finally get to a position we all knew they'd end up at anyway, never ceases to amaze..
 
muttbutt said:
The Irish governments love of having to be dragged kicking and screaming to finally get to a position we all knew they'd end up at anyway, never ceases to amaze..
Click to expand...
I mean I can kind of understand how they walked themselves into this, slow steps nobody noticed along the way, and it was fine until somebody started asking awkward questions and now they are fairly stuck, the agreement is unconstitutional cause it hasn’t been ratified, the use of foreign forces operationally in Ireland is unconstitutional and pretty much every government from the 60s has lied to the Daíl.

You can understand why they want to play the “national security” card and hide, but they are stuck.
 
Dilandu said:
By now the better solutions seems to buy Anduril fighter drones as soon as they would became available...
Click to expand...
Drone is not exactly a tool for air policing. May get there, but for now it's not a fighter in full practical and legal sense.

Especially cheap and cheerful inc.1-2 ones.
 
sparky42 said:
Yes, but I still have questions, the state “frowns” on anyone not in the Garda/DF having weapons, so if Dublin Airport is getting the system, who is going to be operating it?
Click to expand...

Skywarden doesn't come with 'effectors'...i.e. weapons. At its heart its a mini AD system with networked sensors. Whether you choose to attach weapons or not is another thing entirely...

But it does mean IF they need to add effectors later there is the heart of the system installed.
 
Titus K said:
Slightly OT, but the Dublin International Airport is said to have signed a contract with MBDA for a SkyWarden air defence suite.
https://www.lalettre.fr/fr/entrepri...eroport-international-de-dublin,110833459-art
View attachment 816802
Click to expand...
While it’s been a rumour,it’s confirmed today that the AC has already installed a Sky Warden system in Casement and Mistral MANPADs have been bought to replace the RBS 70s. Drone Hunter CUAS has also been acquired for “soft kill” options at the base.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/...to-guard-skies-during-irelands-eu-presidency/
 
Another confirmation of equipment buy that's not been reported, the Army has acquired Giraffe 1X systems, no clue on how many or whether they are "loaners" or bought straight from Saab, there's still no official confirmation other than a short clip of one of them in a PR piece on social media, even though they have been used at the airports already.
 
sparky42 said:
While it’s still only “part of the process”, the radar buy has got through the last departmental hurdle with the cabinet signing off on it, still saying the first unit will be delivered next year. Some questions as to what the reference to further GBAD capability means, more Mistrals and CUAS or something more?
https://www.thejournal.ie/dod-procu...bit-air-irish-defence-forces-7116729-Jul2026/
Click to expand...
I'm kinda hoping for Crotale(sp?) NGs, but those are still pretty short ranged.

Ireland still needs a couple of big radars (I'm talking Aegis Ashore sized) plus some actual aircraft. T-7s, FA-50s, or M346 Masters, not just PC9s!
 
Scott Kenny said:
I'm kinda hoping for Crotale(sp?) NGs, but those are still pretty short ranged.

Ireland still needs a couple of big radars (I'm talking Aegis Ashore sized) plus some actual aircraft. T-7s, FA-50s, or M346 Masters, not just PC9s!
Click to expand...
Well it's Thales as the supplier so the Groundmaster 400a is the largest option. As for aircraft, the issues remain the same, whether that's numbers, base facilities/location. There is a reason why it was a later goal, right now would it be an operational asset or just sitting on the tarmac?
 
Scott Kenny said:
I'm kinda hoping for Crotale(sp?) NGs, but those are still pretty short ranged.
Click to expand...
Crotale has probably been out of production for 15 years.

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of...s-next-phase-of-the-military-radar-programme/
GM400 @sparky42 ?
Enables Ireland to acquire its first long-range military radar systems
First radar systems expected to be delivered in 2027
Full Long Range Radar capability on track for delivery by the end of 2028
Significantly strengthens Ireland’s ability to monitor and protect its airspace

...

The Department of Defence and the Defence Forces have been working with the procurement arm of the French Ministry for the Armed Forces (Ministère des Armées), the Direction Générale de l’Armement (DGA), to progress delivery of the programme.
Click to expand...
 
Oh i didn't notice you already posted the news above !
€300+ million sounds quite high if it's only for the radars … to give a price estimate of a GM400α, indonesia ordered 13 of them in 2023 for €354 million
 
Titus K said:
Oh i didn't notice you already posted the news above !
€300+ million sounds quite high if it's only for the radars … to give a price estimate of a GM400α, indonesia ordered 13 of them in 2023 for €354 million
Click to expand...
Meh, we tend to end up paying a lot for full life support/training (which again we're coming from a standing start so there's going to be hand holding), just look at the price the MSA pair of 295's ended up being. That being said, as I've mentioned before there's a tendency to lump various elements into one another (ie the sonar is also counted in this procurement package of radars?), are the CUAS radar buys being lumped in as well? And that's not even touching the Maritime radar and GBAD comments, hence why the total spend keeps jumping around. Not helped by the fact that pretty much nobody in the DOD could actually tell you what any of the hardware actually is.
 
Last edited:
More AC related than Interceptors, but it seems that the C130 that was damaged in Shannon a few months back isn't economically viable for the USAF to repair, instead they offered it to the AC, but the department turned it down.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I'm kinda hoping for Crotale(sp?) NGs, but those are still pretty short ranged.

Ireland still needs a couple of big radars (I'm talking Aegis Ashore sized) plus some actual aircraft. T-7s, FA-50s, or M346 Masters, not just PC9s!
Click to expand...
Secondhand JAS 39C/D?
 
Could they swing, purchase, maintenance and operating costs, not to mention training? Integration? TBH, I cannot see this happening overnight or even in a short space of years. Ten to twelve years sound about right?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Those would be better than the LIFTs, but who would sell any? Ukraine is taking all of them.
Click to expand...
There are still some unfinished airframes at Saab, should be 10 of them left (they built iirc 14 "just in case", Hungary recently took delivery of 4).
Zero hours; should still be priced as Cs. Though I am a bit unsure about them being better than LIFTs for Ireland. They're true (war) fighters.
 
Ainen said:
Though I am a bit unsure about them being better than LIFTs for Ireland. They're true (war) fighters.
Click to expand...
They'd be faster than even the FA-50s which matters for time-to-intercept, with ~twice the range, and likely not much more expensive to operate (depends on how much maintenance the datalinks etc need); since they have more or less the same engine and weapons with broadly similar avionics fit.

And Gripens are supposed to be maintainable by presumably "poorly-trained"** conscripts instead of highly experienced maintainers.

** only a 2 year term and roughly 6-12 months of that in training, as opposed to 6-12 months of training plus a couple years experience while led by someone with ~6-8 years experience and a specialty school on top of the initial training, with a QA dude that has 10-12 years experience making sure they don't screw it up.​

But if there's only 10 or so airframes available I would not recommend Gripens. If you gotta have 2 airframes always available 24/7/365 for intercepts, I think you need at least a dozen birds per location and at least two locations.
 
Scott Kenny said:
And Gripens are supposed to be maintainable by presumably "poorly-trained"** conscripts instead of highly experienced maintainers.
Click to expand...
Oh, yes, but with caveat. NCO which oversees them is an absolutely golden specialist, more valuable than fighter pilots themselves - and fighter pilots are not known for being expendables! It's a multi generational work to make a organization where you have them.

I.e. Saab isn't lying here (conscripts can indeed do it), they just omit the most important little detail...

I suspect that otherwise, without that guy, Gripen will be just smaller(less lifting, less scaling), more convenient and sensible. Still cheaper, but not the dispersal legend.
 
sparky42 said:
While it’s still only “part of the process”, the radar buy has got through the last departmental hurdle with the cabinet signing off on it, still saying the first unit will be delivered next year. Some questions as to what the reference to further GBAD capability means, more Mistrals and CUAS or something more?
https://www.thejournal.ie/dod-procu...bit-air-irish-defence-forces-7116729-Jul2026/
Click to expand...

Love the picture that they've illustrated the article with...of a 'similar early warning radar in England'.....of Pave Paws at Fylingdales....

As to the radar I've seen some reports that its the GroundMaster 200, not the 400. The 400 would definitely make more sense for air surveillance over a wide area....but the 200 / 200MM/A would have a lot to recommend it, particularly as its a little more deployable and in MM/A form has other modes (like artillery location and warning, short range AD integration) that could have some utility. It might even explain 5 rather than 3...

Has it been officially confirmed anywhere, rather than just as a 'Thales radar'?

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of...towards-delivery-of-military-radar-programme/
 
timmymagic said:
Love the picture that they've illustrated the article with...of a 'similar early warning radar in England'.....of Pave Paws at Fylingdales....

As to the radar I've seen some reports that its the GroundMaster 200, not the 400. The 400 would definitely make more sense for air surveillance over a wide area....but the 200 / 200MM/A would have a lot to recommend it, particularly as its a little more deployable and in MM/A form has other modes (like artillery location and warning, short range AD integration) that could have some utility. It might even explain 5 rather than 3...

Has it been officially confirmed anywhere, rather than just as a 'Thales radar'?

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of...towards-delivery-of-military-radar-programme/
Click to expand...
It's Irish defence reporting, bless them if they even figured out what a radar might be, let alone what picture to use. It could be the 200, there's been no details, just like pretty much everything else the Government is playing the "National Security/G2G" angle as much as they feel they can get away with, hence they still haven't confirmed any details on the Saab radar purchase even though they have been actively displayed.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Could they swing, purchase, maintenance and operating costs, not to mention training? Integration? TBH, I cannot see this happening overnight or even in a short space of years. Ten to twelve years sound about right?
Click to expand...
Which is why the purchase and operation of fighters has always been in the LoA3 recommendations.
 
It's a mix :
  • 4 GM400 Alpha
  • 1 GM200 MM/A
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/news...-air-surveillance-ground-master-400-alpha-and
  • The Irish Department of Defence and the French Direction Générale de l'Armement (DGA – the French defence procurement agency) have signed a contract for the acquisition of four of Thales’ Ground Master 400α (GM400 Alpha) radars and a Ground Master 200 Multi-Mission All-in-one radar to strengthen Irish airspace capabilities.
  • The first deliveries are scheduled for 2027, highlighting Thales’ ability to deliver rapidly in response to customer needs.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom